Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

#BringBack2.10TTK


zhezvya's Avatar


zhezvya
01.31.2017 , 11:05 PM | #21
/Signed

Bring skill trees back as well please (dreaming)
Kira Kira TheDebofNight

Purgamentorum's Avatar


Purgamentorum
02.01.2017 , 02:22 AM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by QuiveringPotato View Post
LOL. Okay, if you think Lethality's dummy parses are in any way relevant in PVP, you probably shouldn't voice your opinion.
Nerf operatives.

Hiro_Wildfire's Avatar


Hiro_Wildfire
02.01.2017 , 03:56 AM | #23
*Sigh*
Good times.
When having a fast reacting defender was crucial.

Lundorff's Avatar


Lundorff
02.01.2017 , 04:43 AM | #24
Go play an Operative in ranked before commenting, then tell me how epic their survival truly is when focused.

  • Can't roll when netted.
  • Only 1 stun breaker and saving it for net can be a death sentence when hard stunned and focused.
  • No DCD that can be used while stunned.
  • Evasion is short lived and on a relatively long cool down
  • Keeping probes up for heal and DR takes 1-2 GCD
  • Curative Agent is great, but does far too little healing if focused by 2 people. Even with Curative Agent + Probe + DR on Stim Boost you will not survive being focused.
  • Lack luster damage compared to mara, sins, merc, sniper.
  • You basically need to save Evasion for Cloaking Screen to have any chance of escaping in stealth
  • Would gladly trade Volatile Substance for something that did direct (instant) damage

In normal warzones you can better run away from the fight, but in ranked you kinda have to be in there, and, well, then you will probably be focused.

So yeah... "nerf operatives" ha ha ha....

Bobby_McDonald's Avatar


Bobby_McDonald
02.01.2017 , 05:39 AM | #25
Edit: I do agree that Ops are too weak now. They can migitate a lot of damage but only if they do not do any damage themselves. Other classes can migitate a lot of damage too but are able to dps at the same time. My post is about Ops in 2.0 - 3.0:


To those who played Maras and especially Ops only back then and complaining here:

I am sure that some DPS-only guys and especially those who used to play scoundrel/operative miss that time.

From your perspective it is balanced to defeat someone within 3 GCDs? While you are NOT defeated within 3 GCDs? (Vanish, 99% invincibility?)

I played a Merc healer as my main back then. When the Merc had to use his Rapid Shots to heal others and he couldn't use them on himself. And the Kolto bubble could only be applied to one target. Kolto overload could easily be bursted through if not combined with shield or/and warzone adrenal.

When an op opened an me back then I had to watch myself loosing 60% of my HP being stunned until he had to apply his 2nd hardstun. Then I could use my stunbreak and only if I had a perfect timing I would be able to heal myself (with the help of Kolto Overload and shield) to full again. Breaking the first stun would always lead to being globaled. If two Ops opened on me at the same time, there was no chance to survive as long as they knew their rotation and timed their stuns.

Yes you are right that was a time where the victims of Ops would die from only making one mistake. But I am sure that if you would have been on the other side of that cc-burst, you would not have enjoyed it that much.

And at the same time on the side of the Op this rule "of making one mistake and die" never applied. The Op was usually the one starting the fight and putting his enemy under pressure to not fail his stunbreak! And even if an Op was failing he could immediatly vanish to rethink his strategy.

I know we do not have balance now, but from a Merc Healer perspective 2.0 - 3.0 was the most unbalanced time. PTs, Sage DPS and Juggs are really not fun to play in ranked anymore (I tried) but they are not as trashy as the Merc used to be back then (I do think that those three classes should gain more survivibility!). I remember that sorcs had similar problems.

Also back then the Op was the fastest moving class in game. All the other classes were just brought in line with them now.

Basically I hear:

"Ops and Maras used to be the only DPS that could just global a stunned target while having "a holy **** button" and being able to move around the map really fast. Now every class has a holy **** button and they are all fast so Ops and Maras are only as good as other average classes."

So: consider the perspective of your victims as well who needed a way to escape and prevent you from destroying them that you always had.

MuskyBoy's Avatar


MuskyBoy
02.01.2017 , 07:32 AM | #26
I think one of the biggest problems with TTK being too high is so many players are playing ranged classes (mainly mercs but also snipers). Killing mercs and snipers with another ranged takes forever since there is virtually no chance you'll get a sniper out of cover without melee help and mercs against ranged obviously have so many self heals and kiting abilities that just killing one can take minutes. Throw in the fact that there are so many healers running around and that all tank classes have guard regardless of spec and it's no wonder no one dies in wz's anymore.

DarrelK's Avatar


DarrelK
02.01.2017 , 07:40 AM | #27
Bring 2.4 back.
[TRE] Oberei - occasionally a decent shadow

snave's Avatar


snave
02.01.2017 , 07:50 AM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by Purgamentorum View Post
Dps operative lacking survival please don't make me laugh. Have you seen the thrill of the hunt video and how boring ops made it. Even Snave who has something to say on every subject, plays an op exclusively since launch and hosted the event was having a snooze. The point is that healers should have a nerve twitching time keeping players alive. Players with the stealth should have to run or die when you turn around and beat on them. Pure DPS (snipers and maras) should hit like a train but need a healer. Tank/dps classes should do their job with a little advantage of the offspec. And sorcs healers should not be able to solo heal a wz reg or ranked while doing some crafting and reading up on google.

I am not advocating easy kills but with so many dcds, not enough damage, and huge heals (op bug/sorc easy mode) the game is growing stale. No one wants to die but this is a computer game so suck it up and wait for the respawn.
I enjoyed all the operative fights with the exception of one round. Also I'm not sure comparing general PvP balance to a 1v1 tournament is particularly wise

Endel's Avatar


Endel
02.01.2017 , 07:50 AM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by Lundorff View Post
Go play an Operative in ranked before commenting, then tell me how epic their survival truly is when focused.

  • Can't roll when netted.
  • Only 1 stun breaker and saving it for net can be a death sentence when hard stunned and focused.
  • No DCD that can be used while stunned.
  • Evasion is short lived and on a relatively long cool down
  • Keeping probes up for heal and DR takes 1-2 GCD
  • Curative Agent is great, but does far too little healing if focused by 2 people. Even with Curative Agent + Probe + DR on Stim Boost you will not survive being focused.
  • Lack luster damage compared to mara, sins, merc, sniper.
  • You basically need to save Evasion for Cloaking Screen to have any chance of escaping in stealth
  • Would gladly trade Volatile Substance for something that did direct (instant) damage

In normal warzones you can better run away from the fight, but in ranked you kinda have to be in there, and, well, then you will probably be focused.

So yeah... "nerf operatives" ha ha ha....
All of the above is correct.

People that cried since the beginning of the game, achieved their goal of bringing Ops and Scoundrels to a laughabale state, still have the nerve to ask for more nerfs for this class...

Can people finally focus their cries on some other classes?
Scoundrel
Operative
Only a few are looking forward with optimism...

snave's Avatar


snave
02.01.2017 , 08:00 AM | #30
You guys talking about Operatives doing too much damage in 2.x are really weird.

Operatives were waaaaay down on the totem pole during that era and Assassins were pretty in pretty much every conceivable way - Especially burst damage.

This whole thing about being stun locked 100-0% is just flat out nonsense, I can try and dig up one of my old posts about it but for an Operative in BiS gear to get anywhere remotely near to that amount of damage required every ability to crit and for the enemy to have absolutely terrible gear.

Assasins, on the other hand, could do 90% of a target's health while they're wearing BiS gear in around 6 seconds.

And are we all just forgetting about smash being the most broken ability in the history of ever? Although I think that was fixed by 2.10.

The last time Operatives were FOTM as DPS was 1.4 or 1.2, I try to forget the pain caused by the first great Operative nerf. Heals were FOTM for a long time though, roughly the same as the smash era iirc. You'll have to forgive me if I can't remember the exact specifics, I'm old and I drink a lot.