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#BringBack2.10TTK


QuiveringPotato's Avatar


QuiveringPotato
01.31.2017 , 04:25 AM | #1
Does anyone remember when pretty much all burst specs could 100-0 you in under 10 seconds? Anyone remember when a Carnage Mara could wipe you in 3 GCDs if you didn't react quickly? When a Concealment Operative could have you back in the spawn in like 4 globals if you just stood there and took it like an idiot?

2.10 was about as balanced as we've seen this game. Healers were useful, but not overpowered. Tank stats were good. Burst specs could.. well, burst. Dot specs were also strong (madness sins/sorcs were really the only OP thing). Now, even a 1v1 can last longer than 5 minutes. It can take ~4 or more decent DPS to down a guarded healer and a tank. Some specs have garbage damage output, but ridiculous survivability (looking at you, concealment). In PVP, if you **** up, you should die. Currently, you'll die if you **** up like 10 times or so.

I miss this time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOrRlm3Agxs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Stx4wUeAmQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuEeVgQVw4s

This was a better time for PVP.

I really think the game would benefit from lowering HP pools, increasing damage, buffing tank stats, buffing burst, and reducing healers' effectiveness (although just lowering HP pools would fix a lot of this).

Obviously, fixing gearing and mercs is the primary issue right this second, but down the line, I'd like to see the game return to the glorious late 2.0 era in terms of the overall feel of PVP. It's been "parsing simulator" for like 2 years now.

Edit: I am not asking to literally roll back time and play things as they were in 2.10, I'm asking for a 2.10-styled 5.0.
Arvengis | Akanias Taleri | Mhyrah | Arcuneth | Tol'ika
Arteum | Celden

The Ebon Hawk <Nerf Operatives> Youtube Channel

Qwurdilu's Avatar


Qwurdilu
01.31.2017 , 04:40 AM | #2
Quote: Originally Posted by QuiveringPotato View Post
2.10 was about as balanced as we've seen this game. Healers were useful, but not overpowered. Tank stats were good. Burst specs could.. well, burst. Dot specs were also strong (madness sins/sorcs were really the only OP thing).
I completely agree, 2.10 was the most balanced. You could play hardswitch and you were able to play dot. Great times.
Doubt hardswitch will come back anytime soon though

Purgamentorum's Avatar


Purgamentorum
01.31.2017 , 04:44 AM | #3
Yes bring back the 2.0 electro net. That was a thing of beauty. No breaker for it and immense damage if you twitched. No sorc even bothered to learn what bubble was.

QuiveringPotato's Avatar


QuiveringPotato
01.31.2017 , 04:51 AM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by Purgamentorum View Post
Yes bring back the 2.0 electro net. That was a thing of beauty. No breaker for it and immense damage if you twitched. No sorc even bothered to learn what bubble was.
Couldn't you still break the hindering effect of it? I don't want to change any current abilities (except for mercenary's busted utilities), I just want the TTK to be lowered so that skill comes back.
Arvengis | Akanias Taleri | Mhyrah | Arcuneth | Tol'ika
Arteum | Celden

The Ebon Hawk <Nerf Operatives> Youtube Channel

Beyrahl's Avatar


Beyrahl
01.31.2017 , 04:53 AM | #5
I'm all for having retaliation, deadly throw and old force scream back on carnage. But I rather like how things are now, outside of mercs being overtuned DCD wise and the brazing bolt slow being absurd, things are fine. Marauder then was pretty much one GCD kills on people who didn't know what they were doing, it was fun for only so long. It heavily got repetitive and stale, I have never liked a class so much like I have to Marauder.

3.0 came along and really ****ed up things combat wise, lowering our damage across the board and increasing HP pools, so they gave nearly everyone new things to make up for it. However damage wise marauder was pretty shafted outside of no CD force rend, also losing two moves, while on this topic some of the abilities gained were also kind of crappy compared to things like Cell burst/energy load.

Beyond that to now, things have been alright, until almighty mercs have arrived. I now feel for my pyrotech more than I ever have, losing flamethrower takes a huge hit in AoE/Slow/Damage PvP wise. Second favorite spec to play. When people are running premade, even if it's just tank healer. I'm basically forced off burst spec (if I want to still be most effective) if they're good, that I can agree I do not like one bit. I'm nearly forced onto a more durable DoT spec like Juggernaut or Assassin (last patch would be including PT ), which are fun but honestly i'd rather not be forced onto something else where I no longer make progress towards my main.

Back then unlike now, I wouldn't be forced off as their taunts/tank stats wouldn't really put a dent in my damage nor would I be controlled so hard. So in that aspect i'd love that back, but I don't think it's all that possible. But in a full premade i'd say things are still the same, usually a landslide match like always if they're not terrible. I do tend to take matches off good premades, just like before. Even without healers but it isn't "Fun" and that really kills my mood to queue more.
(This is concerning purely 8v8 ^ in any decent ranked arena back then, being controlled wasn't very difficult, we now have more tools to deal with it compared to what was before. Also the pace of the battle is much different then so getting away with things were easier, now i'm not so lucky and I don't get away with things I once used to.)

Overall I think instead of lowering HP pools, I think making different queues, one focused on group and one for solo queues. But when they merge give the other team some type of heads up, not everyone wants to deal with it nor do I want to leave a match I already waited 2minutes + queue time to play.

QuiveringPotato's Avatar


QuiveringPotato
01.31.2017 , 05:17 AM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Beyrahl View Post
I'm all for having retaliation, deadly throw and old force scream back on carnage. But I rather like how things are now, outside of mercs being overtuned DCD wise and the brazing bolt slow being absurd, things are fine. Marauder then was pretty much one GCD kills on people who didn't know what they were doing, it was fun for only so long. It heavily got repetitive and stale, I have never liked a class so much like I have to Marauder.

3.0 came along and really ****ed up things combat wise, lowering our damage across the board and increasing HP pools, so they gave nearly everyone new things to make up for it. However damage wise marauder was pretty shafted outside of no CD force rend, also losing two moves, while on this topic some of the abilities gained were also kind of crappy compared to things like Cell burst/energy load.

Beyond that to now, things have been alright, until almighty mercs have arrived. I now feel for my pyrotech more than I ever have, losing flamethrower takes a huge hit in AoE/Slow/Damage PvP wise. Second favorite spec to play. When people are running premade, even if it's just tank healer. I'm basically forced off burst spec (if I want to still be most effective) if they're good, that I can agree I do not like one bit. I'm nearly forced onto a more durable DoT spec like Juggernaut or Assassin (last patch would be including PT ), which are fun but honestly i'd rather not be forced onto something else where I no longer make progress towards my main.

Back then unlike now, I wouldn't be forced off as their taunts/tank stats wouldn't really put a dent in my damage nor would I be controlled so hard. So in that aspect i'd love that back, but I don't think it's all that possible. But in a full premade i'd say things are still the same, usually a landslide match like always if they're not terrible. I do tend to take matches off good premades, just like before. Even without healers but it isn't "Fun" and that really kills my mood to queue more.
(This is concerning purely 8v8 ^ in any decent ranked arena back then, being controlled wasn't very difficult, we now have more tools to deal with it compared to what was before. Also the pace of the battle is much different then so getting away with things were easier, now i'm not so lucky and I don't get away with things I once used to.)

Overall I think instead of lowering HP pools, I think making different queues, one focused on group and one for solo queues. But when they merge give the other team some type of heads up, not everyone wants to deal with it nor do I want to leave a match I already waited 2minutes + queue time to play.
I like how classes are now as well, I'm just saying that the TTK is way too long and that's one of the main issues with class balance. Some classes have pretty darn good burst while others are just mediocre, whereas in 2.10, all burst specs were pretty much equally deadly. TTK is so high atm, that against a healer, dot specs are basically irrelevant.
Arvengis | Akanias Taleri | Mhyrah | Arcuneth | Tol'ika
Arteum | Celden

The Ebon Hawk <Nerf Operatives> Youtube Channel

verfallen's Avatar


verfallen
01.31.2017 , 05:38 AM | #7
imo what mostly changed is burst spec are not so bursty anymore, or more accurately, their sustained dps was reduced significantly compared to what it was then, including the burst part, and meanwhile endurance went haywire.

I mean from 50 to 70 dps went from 1800ish to 10k, but health went from 15k to 120k.

But look at the "bursters", carnage aside, which I feel as a lot less bursty in 5.0, they are at the bottom of the dps scale by quite a fair margin. IO has higher burst than some.

Purgamentorum's Avatar


Purgamentorum
01.31.2017 , 05:52 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by QuiveringPotato View Post
Couldn't you still break the hindering effect of it? I don't want to change any current abilities (except for mercenary's busted utilities), I just want the TTK to be lowered so that skill comes back.
When the ability was first made no it was unbreakable. But it is always the same with merc. Grav round made people cry in 1.x so they destroyed it. Net made people cry so it was the first thing to be broken in a patch. Now people cry because of the reflect shield. No one mentions maras have the same shield on utility, and people accept the god bubble now.

For balance all they really need to do is make the sorc aoe heal smaller range or harder to apply the other healers are ok. As for DPS I would prefer to see the less survivable specs ie PT go back to the very big damage they used to do. but this is not an option till they fix sorc healing. 5.5 million heals in a regs is stupid, and in ranked taking any other class is killing your team. Operatives are to much at the moment, they have evasion, roll, stealth, self heal, and the best dps numbers in the game. Which imo just leaves sniper as an over performer and I think that is down to the map design itself rather than the class. some maps are just to open for the huge damage they put out, but as I have said before we need new maps even if they are the same objective. Without new maps to balance the new skills of each class since 50 people are free to abuse things like phase walk, roll, and sniper dps.

So lastly is the merc truly op? It is the slowest moving class, with the worst self heal until the new changes, and now the worst party heal but slightly better self heals. Nothing is instant self healing wise as with sorc, and nothing is continuous as with op. The probes need to be hit to heal. The mando version still has the big green light of "I'm over here and running low on ammo" surely the biggest faction imbalance in the game. And merc dps is pretty good but rocket out? hahaha all you have to do is get on top of a merc and hit till dead kolto overload is really the only thing that will save them with a self heal on the next GCD. And let's face it if you are attacking a merc 1v1 unless you are capping a node solo you really shouldn't be in pvp. It's all about focusing down 1 target at a time.

blodvite's Avatar


blodvite
01.31.2017 , 05:52 AM | #9
HP pool is somewhat too high atm, yes.
T1, All Seasons.

RIP TOFN.

Qwurdilu's Avatar


Qwurdilu
01.31.2017 , 07:52 AM | #10
I disagree on the healthpool. There would be still enough damage to kill someone in stunlock with hardswitch. The problem is there are way too many escapes.

Sorcheal with 2 breaker and phasewalk. its beyond stupid and hardswitch killer #1
Sniper...dont even get me started on this ******** character, he completely sucks the joiy out of every other class
merc reflect while hardstunned.
Everyone acess to less CD on breaker.
Less dmg. while stunned utility

All this ******** killed hardswitch for teamranked. So sad, it was by far my favorite tactic to play.

You guys remember when healing was all about cleansing and following hardstuns and throwing in explosive probes and not just farming hps like a trainings dummy? good times