Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

What defines the cost of crafted items?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
What defines the cost of crafted items?

TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
01.14.2019 , 04:38 PM | #31
Quote: Originally Posted by Joonbeams View Post
A few things to add as a long-time crafter from day one. First is that Iíve accumulated mats over years. Hundreds, thousands from days when they were just a few credits. So people like me have endless stacks of blues and greens, and ample purple mats. Not counting Jawa junk. So todayís GTN prices for mats probably arenít a greet guide - Iíll be able to sell nearly any crafted item (pre 5.10) for cheaper than almost anyone else. And Iím not alone (I know who many of the long timers are).

Also note that people like me, who for years did nothing but craft, have figured out costs, pricing, etc. to the point where itís intuitive now. For example, I know what 50 influence companions can do on missions, how long it takes, how often it crits, etc. and then I know how many credits Iím getting from play (for example I always kill mobs, collect junk, and sell to vendor). For the most part, gameplay covers the costs of crafting missions entirely. A 3K crafting mission can be paid for with one trash mob, for example. Also, I farm greens (never run scavenging, bio, arch) and only run the crafting supp missions (the crafting vendor stuff). After level 3, this is WAY more cost effective than buying from vendor (or insane GTN - On side note GTN prices for vendor items like gifts and crafting supplements are a joke. Iím sure newbies buy purple rank 5 gifts for 18K when they ďretailĒ for 10K and Zoosha solution for 5K, etc. I assume this is why people keep listing these at these prices.). There are other lil tricks too (crafting missions, etc.).

So this is why some people can list items at seemingly under cost. Stay with it. Because inflation is out of control and things will get even more expensive, meaning stuff you collect today will ďappreciateĒ later on...
Thatís all well and good, but if you can sell exaclty the same amount as you would normally list and get double the credits you are listing for, why would you undercut 50%?
That just seems dumb to me because you are using double the mats for half the return.
Now if those items sold slow (two days to sell), then I could see why this would be a more attractive and lucrative way of doing it. But when those same items will sell out at in 8 hours at double the price, why would you undercut by 50% unless you are trying to drive all competition from the market.

Joonbeams's Avatar


Joonbeams
01.14.2019 , 06:13 PM | #32
Quote: Originally Posted by TrixxieTriss View Post
Thatís all well and good, but if you can sell exaclty the same amount as you would normally list and get double the credits you are listing for, why would you undercut 50%?
That just seems dumb to me because you are using double the mats for half the return.
Now if those items sold slow (two days to sell), then I could see why this would be a more attractive and lucrative way of doing it. But when those same items will sell out at in 8 hours at double the price, why would you undercut by 50% unless you are trying to drive all competition from the market.
I canít explain foolish practices on the GTN any better than anyone else can. Again, I canít figure out why anyone would pay even 1 credit more than the vendor price for companion gifts and crafting materials, yet we have pages of listings just like this (and I assume they sell).

I never try to explain irriational or illogical behavior. All I can say is that many people who craft in this game do so as their primary activity. Until recently, I went a couple years doing nothing but crafting and occasional PvP ó Iím good at the former and meh at the latter. Iím still not done wirh KOTFE, never seen KOTET. Etc. But I have boatloads of credits all earned entirely from crafting.

I say this to point out that the crafters who are serious know exactly what they are doing, what sells, how fast, etc. They donít need to look at other prices. For me, I barely look at other prices for things Iím selling. And often were selling tons of things so there isnít time to even try to ďgameĒ. I tend to list at the same price all the time until Iím given a reason to change. And my price point will always be at strong margins for me, relative to my costs...

Darevsool's Avatar


Darevsool
01.14.2019 , 10:18 PM | #33
Quote: Originally Posted by TrixxieTriss View Post
WOW... 30-50k is way too cheap for most crafted dual colour dyes on SF. Especially when you consider you need 4 of each colour crystal, 8 blue mats, and 4 bonded mats (that require 4 green and 2 vendor mats). That alone pushes the cost price for those to close to 40k (depending on the lvl of mats needed).
I really hope you arenít one of the guys that jumps on and drives the prices down that low.

My cut off for dyes is 60k and that is the bare minimum even only if Iíve got overstock, I wonít get into undercut Wars below that. I find the sweet spot for the higher demand dies will quickly sell between 90-120k. Honestly some of the higher demand ones will sell at 120k or higher all day and we (usual sellers) canít keep up. This is when lots of us start buying mats straight off the GTN and you can see them disappearing fast the price going up on those.

I cost priced one of the best selling dyes (GTN mat prices) the other day when there was a run on them and it was well over 200k. We (the usual sellers) were selling the dyes between 99-120k. So if we were to purchase the mats the dyes would have been at half price. At that point the dye prices started to rise. I donít get greedy and I cap my highest at 120k. But if demand is high and Iím struggling to keep up, I just pull out until I get more stocked up. That way those guys who list higher can also make some credits. Like I said Iím not greedy.

Then the price destroyers appear and start listing the same dyes 52k (this seems to be their price) every day without fail and we all have to stop. I canít understand why they do it when they could be selling at the same price as we all are and supporting us keep the GTN stocked. Half the time we canít keep up the crafting of demand as it is. So driving the price into the ground is so stupid. So for 3/5ths of the day there are two guys that destroy the dye values. Then the uninitiated get into a an undercutting war and drive it lower. (I will sometimes buy those dyes if they become stupidly low, like 10-20k.

The slightly less demand dyes sweet spot is between 65-70k. The low demand duel dyes go between 50-65k. I donít sell those unless they are 60k plus. And I donít bother crafting the really low demand duel dyes or the single colour dyes. Its a waste of time and resources selling dyes for 2-10k.

Grade 5-6 colour crystal mats are some of the more time consuming to farm because of the distances you need to travel the slow respawns of them. I will often buy these on the GTN if they are below certain price.
Grade 8-9 colour crystals and mats are by far the easiest in the game to farm. I can get 200 of each colour in about an hour (depending on other farmers). But mission blue mats also cost a fortune with these to farm and the vendor white mats are much higher than the lower tiered ones. Over all the teiree grade dyes nearly balance out to the same costs as the higher grade ones. Usually the GTN mats are much higher for the lower grade dyes than higher.

Bidding/undercut wars can be a bit of fun, but undercutting any less than 1-10 credits is stupid because you donít need to and all people are doing is devaluing the market price till no one makes any credits.

The problem is buying these dyes at 52k is risky. Iíve been burnt before trying to clear out his listings so we could start selling at 90k again. But he just lists more or then the market is overstocked and heís already devalued the price so no one who saw them earlier will now buy them. You also need to take the GTN tax into account. Buying those at 52k and relistign at 90k would return you 82k as long as people donít start undercutting.

I donít just sell dyes either, I sell mods, enhancments and Augments (not the gold ones, the mats are too expensive to buy and Iím not going to farm them to craft). Iím thinking of giving up dyes because of the 1-2 fools that get on everyday and devalue them.
I may sell dyes 3 or 4 times a year, when I find some in an unused toon's inventory.
Then I sell to get rid of, not to make a profit.
10 isn't going to ruin the market for anyone.

The last thing I specifically crafted to make a profit on were 236 and 240 augments.
I did ok with them too
<Dead Wookiee Storage> Imp - StarForge/Satele Shan
<Babyslaughter> Pub - Star Forge
<SluisVanShipyards> Pub - Satele Shan
....and who doesn't like laughing babies?

Darevsool's Avatar


Darevsool
01.14.2019 , 10:19 PM | #34
Oh, I also made some original green synthweaving armor sets...you know the stuff you learned at the trainer 7 years ago. I was surprised that they sold pretty well.
<Dead Wookiee Storage> Imp - StarForge/Satele Shan
<Babyslaughter> Pub - Star Forge
<SluisVanShipyards> Pub - Satele Shan
....and who doesn't like laughing babies?

denavin's Avatar


denavin
01.15.2019 , 01:03 AM | #35
Quote: Originally Posted by TrixxieTriss View Post
This is a question with an answer that is different for most because there are 5 points to this and everyoneís idea of the cost varies.

1. The time or difficulty it takes to acquire the mats through farming
2. The cost and time it takes to get some mats that are only available by doing crew missions
3. The time it takes to make the items
4. The cost of mats on the GTN
5. Cost of white vendor mats (or mission ones if so inclined).
None of the above...

What Defines the cost of Crafted Items?

It's simple..... What ever somebody will pay, is what defines the cost of crafted items...
HK-55: "Do you think she passed her test?"
Z0-OM: "According to my sensors.... NO
."

fabsus's Avatar


fabsus
01.15.2019 , 03:17 AM | #36
i'm totally with TrixxieTriss about the stupidity of undercutting and selling stuff with profit losses. but it is a fight against mills and even if you calculate it as detailed as possible, there will be ppl undercutting prices. they just don't see, that they are doing losses. so they don't care. and because this is a game, it is not a loss, just a lower profit.
so you won't loose your stronghold for selling under "worth".

some stuff to add here:
- level 50 companions are an investment. but you profit from them. so you should lower prices, by having them, not raising the costs, because you have to pay for. it doesn't need long to profit from that investment. from 1-50 it costs about 4.7mill. a bit more, if you use the item from victory.
- you are getting materials out of crates and rewards. so you should calculate that rate, too
- there are damn much players out there, selling materials for the gtn suggested price. on my server i'm buying a value of about 2mill credits each week. just that stuff. not the cheap materials included.
- many ppl are willing to sell the scrap for a real low price. and you can do a deal with them, for a longer period. so they are sending you the stuff you need. just do some networking. also there are ppl out there, willing to farm for you, for a fixed price.

so you automatically will change from a crafter, to a trader. you just don't care anymore about crafting costs, because you buy stuff and sell it with profit.

the "problem" is, that it is just a game. you won't loose your stronghold because you are a bad business man. you are just loosing profits. and the majority won't care about. the most even won't calculate the fee from the gtn.

so if it is annoying to you, stop doing it. it is a game and you should have fun. you won't change the ppl. and with trading you are way more money. with some experience of the different prices, you can make about 1 billion each month. in some events more. and this without playing swtor as a trading simulation. can't imagine how much the full time traders are earning.
Disclaimer: This is my opinion.
http://www.swtor.com/r/cyZhrF <--This is my Ref-Link. Feel free to ignore or benefit from it.

Joonbeams's Avatar


Joonbeams
01.15.2019 , 10:28 PM | #37
Quote: Originally Posted by fabsus View Post
i'm totally with TrixxieTriss about the stupidity of undercutting and selling stuff with profit losses. but it is a fight against mills and even if you calculate it as detailed as possible, there will be ppl undercutting prices. they just don't see, that they are doing losses. so they don't care. and because this is a game, it is not a loss, just a lower profit.
so you won't loose your stronghold for selling under "worth".

some stuff to add here:
- level 50 companions are an investment. but you profit from them. so you should lower prices, by having them, not raising the costs, because you have to pay for. it doesn't need long to profit from that investment. from 1-50 it costs about 4.7mill. a bit more, if you use the item from victory.
- you are getting materials out of crates and rewards. so you should calculate that rate, too
- there are damn much players out there, selling materials for the gtn suggested price. on my server i'm buying a value of about 2mill credits each week. just that stuff. not the cheap materials included.
- many ppl are willing to sell the scrap for a real low price. and you can do a deal with them, for a longer period. so they are sending you the stuff you need. just do some networking. also there are ppl out there, willing to farm for you, for a fixed price.

so you automatically will change from a crafter, to a trader. you just don't care anymore about crafting costs, because you buy stuff and sell it with profit.

the "problem" is, that it is just a game. you won't loose your stronghold because you are a bad business man. you are just loosing profits. and the majority won't care about. the most even won't calculate the fee from the gtn.

so if it is annoying to you, stop doing it. it is a game and you should have fun. you won't change the ppl. and with trading you are way more money. with some experience of the different prices, you can make about 1 billion each month. in some events more. and this without playing swtor as a trading simulation. can't imagine how much the full time traders are earning.
Again, I think itís really important to understand that some serious crafters NEVER look at other prices. They will have no real idea at any time whether they are undercutting, overpricing, etc. We know what we need to price at to make the profits we need and we donít have time to see what others are doing on the GTN. It doesnít even matter...

Khaleijo's Avatar


Khaleijo
01.16.2019 , 11:33 AM | #38
Quote: Originally Posted by Joonbeams View Post
Again, I think itís really important to understand that some serious crafters NEVER look at other prices. They will have no real idea at any time whether they are undercutting, overpricing, etc. We know what we need to price at to make the profits we need and we donít have time to see what others are doing on the GTN. It doesnít even matter...
Joonbeams is right here. Granted I sell stuff players can't learn to make anymore so the competition is limited in the first place, that probably would allow me to raise the prices but I don't see a reason for it.
I'm crafting old synthweaving stuff for years now and sell for almost the same prices as I did three, five or seven years ago (did an adjustment with the GTN fee changes).
Initially I determined my prices out of what would I pay for an orange shell and then add 5 or ten percent.

I don't look up what others want to get for the old battle-master stuff anymore, I just post what my crew crafted since my last login for my usual price and fetch money or unsold items from the mail and what materials my crew gathered. At least two times a day, depending which character I'm playing in the meantime, first login and last login before going offline.

Well I'd look maybe, if I don't sell anything for days to see how much competition there is, for deciding if a temporarily switch to other well liked recipes is needed, but since players able to craft the old stuff get rarer and rarer, that doesn't happen often anymore
I simply don't need 5.000.000 credits for a force mystics head piece I've seen it being listed some times, even with my roundabout 200k credits I'm vastly on the plus side of potential material costs.

Cost that I indeed don't really calculate. Only did that once or twice when someone wanted half his legacy decked out from my crafting, made a deal with him, he'd pay the material cost plus a small fee of 15%. There I did look up what the different material had cost on the GTN, even if I didn't buy them, my whole legacy bank is full of what I need. It was just the easiest way to determine the price for that deal, instead of breaking down mission cost, average yield and so on.
And it was even cheaper than what I usually ask per piece, since the actual material costs of pre 4.0-crafting-overhaul recipes are almost nothing.
I might be able to ask more, but since my prices are low enough for F2P players too and I comfortably finance my whole legacy like that for years now, what for?
Just for more virtual profit? To have two more zeros to the number on my legacy bank that is already more than enough for my needs?
Freund werben, 7 Tage Probeabo: www.swtor.com/r/GJhHrY

Lhancelot's Avatar


Lhancelot
01.16.2019 , 12:23 PM | #39
I have a simple question, is it really that hard to find other items to craft, other ways to make money off the GTN? I never had trouble shifting craft items to sell or buying low selling high, etc. to make credits off the GTN.

You can't control what others do on the GTN, as Joon keeps saying there are so many different reasons why people sell for less than you think is sensible. If it's out of your control, do yourself a favor and stop worrying on it.
The Revival of SWTOR: Petition for More Funding and Resources
(Click link Below For More Information)

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=959696

PiiTarr's Avatar


PiiTarr
01.16.2019 , 02:23 PM | #40
Quote: Originally Posted by Lhancelot View Post
I have a simple question, is it really that hard to find other items to craft, other ways to make money off the GTN? I never had trouble shifting craft items to sell or buying low selling high, etc. to make credits off the GTN.

You can't control what others do on the GTN, as Joon keeps saying there are so many different reasons why people sell for less than you think is sensible. If it's out of your control, do yourself a favor and stop worrying on it.
Not hard at all if someone is willing to take the time to explore the markets and learn what's selling and what isn't and where there's unmet demand. If a particular segment becomes unprofitable for me I simply find something else.