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I realize they;re fictional, but I also figure they didn't write the character and go "Oh. They're any way." I know when I write, I don't think to myself "This character can be anything and everything." at least for the more main characters, which the companions are.

 

That said, I'm sure there were some the writers envisioned in whatever category.

 

That's possible but also irrelevant. These characters are not set in stone. They're under the writers' control. Like I said, revision. Whether Kaiden in ME was always meant to be bi or whether they revised his character to add that in later is a good example: Kaiden is a character. They decided to make same sex options available for him in ME3. They did. End of story. There's no reason at all they can't do that for other characters. You might not think 'this character can be anything and everything' but not only is that not even what I was insinuating the SWTOR writers are doing or should do (which I suspect you know damn well), you do have absolute control, as a writer, of what that character becomes.

 

Saying, 'We can't do that now as is doesn't fit and it's too late to add it in' is bollocks. If they don't, as writers, want to add it into existing characters then that's another matter, but if that's the case then write in new characters.

 

As for lying by omission, haven't seen that. They said SGR will come. They said it wouldn't be companions. So now it's just a matter of...

 

I'm talking about the year-long stretch before they gave us any real information. I'm talking about their intentions for the 'further SGRA content' they hinted at for post-Makeb. I'm not talking exclusively about the Makeb content so yes, I'm afraid that if they do intend to restrict SGR content to non-companion NPCs then they have indeed been leading us on.

 

Thing is, I believe the future SGR content will include companions. It's one of the main reasons I'm still here.

 

Maybe Makeb's entire population is made up of clones who are only into SGR, and hence why they started cloning to reproduce!

 

That would be absolutely abysmal, as decisions go. That would be a public relations nightmare and possibly one of the worst things they could do for their reputation amongst LGBT and allies. A world full of same-sex people who do cloning because otherwise they'll die out? No other LGBT content anywhere in the galaxy? The unspoken insinuation that this is where all the LGBT people belong? That's right up there with 'ship all the gays off to and island and let them gay each other out of existence'.

 

No, I don't think they'd do that. I think it'll be more natural and more subtle. Like some of the existing characters - you meet them in the course of a mission, you hit it off, you flirt, you fade to black. The only difference is that some boys will be boy-flirtable and some girls will be girl-flirtable.

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That's possible but also irrelevant. These characters are not set in stone. They're under the writers' control. Like I said, revision. Whether Kaiden in ME was always meant to be bi or whether they revised his character to add that in later is a good example: Kaiden is a character. They decided to make same sex options available for him in ME3. They did. End of story. There's no reason at all they can't do that for other characters. You might not think 'this character can be anything and everything' but not only is that not even what I was insinuating the SWTOR writers are doing or should do (which I suspect you know damn well), you do have absolute control, as a writer, of what that character becomes.

 

Saying, 'We can't do that now as is doesn't fit and it's too late to add it in' is bollocks. If they don't, as writers, want to add it into existing characters then that's another matter, but if that's the case then write in new characters.

 

 

 

I'm talking about the year-long stretch before they gave us any real information. I'm talking about their intentions for the 'further SGRA content' they hinted at for post-Makeb. I'm not talking exclusively about the Makeb content so yes, I'm afraid that if they do intend to restrict SGR content to non-companion NPCs then they have indeed been leading us on.

 

Thing is, I believe the future SGR content will include companions. It's one of the main reasons I'm still here.

 

 

 

That would be absolutely abysmal, as decisions go. That would be a public relations nightmare and possibly one of the worst things they could do for their reputation amongst LGBT and allies. A world full of same-sex people who do cloning because otherwise they'll die out? No other LGBT content anywhere in the galaxy? The unspoken insinuation that this is where all the LGBT people belong? That's right up there with 'ship all the gays off to and island and let them gay each other out of existence'.

 

No, I don't think they'd do that. I think it'll be more natural and more subtle. Like some of the existing characters - you meet them in the course of a mission, you hit it off, you flirt, you fade to black. The only difference is that some boys will be boy-flirtable and some girls will be girl-flirtable.

 

Changing characters never goes over well. People hate retcons.

 

As for the last bit, I just threw that out there as a possibility as I havent seen any info on Makeb, I highly doubt they're going that route, but I will have to disagree with you. It doesn't insinuate that's where all the LGBT people belong. That's stretching the idea to purposely find a negative for the idea.

 

What it is, is a background for a planet. I believe Star Trek has a planet similar to that, except they were ambigious, with the idea of gender washed out of them, but a few of them would lean towards male or female, and then have it basically brain-washed out of them.

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Changing characters never goes over well. People hate retcons..

 

People hate retcons. Except when they like/love them.

 

Some people hate that Tali and Garrus are romance options. Others love it.

 

The former have the option to simply not engage in the content.

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TOR was reported to have sold 2 million copies of the game when it came out but went down to 200k-500k subs in the months after that. That's what I meant when I said 'tanked'.

But it didn't. After 6 months it was still at 1.3m and only sunk to 'well over 500k' ten months after launch.

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That's possible but also irrelevant. These characters are not set in stone. They're under the writers' control. Like I said, revision. Whether Kaiden in ME was always meant to be bi or whether they revised his character to add that in later is a good example: Kaiden is a character. They decided to make same sex options available for him in ME3. They did. End of story. There's no reason at all they can't do that for other characters. You might not think 'this character can be anything and everything' but not only is that not even what I was insinuating the SWTOR writers are doing or should do (which I suspect you know damn well), you do have absolute control, as a writer, of what that character becomes.

 

Saying, 'We can't do that now as is doesn't fit and it's too late to add it in' is bollocks. If they don't, as writers, want to add it into existing characters then that's another matter, but if that's the case then write in new characters.

 

Indeed. There's a difference between writing characters for fiction and writing characters for games. Characters in (RPG) games are "playable" which in itself means that a certain part or their personality is determined by the player through choices the player makes (dialogue wheel etc.) while in fiction there's no such thing. You can't just go and skip a paragraph. In fiction, a character is predetermined while in games, you'll have to give him/her different personality traits from the get-go, those the player can chose from. So when writers claim they can't make a character adapt to certain situations in different ways they're either dishonest with themselves or maybe should be writing fiction instead where no such thing is demanded.

 

Kaidan is a good example. I played the mShep/Kaidan romance and there was never a doubt in my mind that this romance is working. I've read comments of other players though who said they envisioned Shep and Kaidan to be just buddies. Both of the factions are right because both of us played different versions of Kaidan, through the choices we made.

I'm talking about the year-long stretch before they gave us any real information. I'm talking about their intentions for the 'further SGRA content' they hinted at for post-Makeb. I'm not talking exclusively about the Makeb content so yes, I'm afraid that if they do intend to restrict SGR content to non-companion NPCs then they have indeed been leading us on.

Thing is, I believe the future SGR content will include companions. It's one of the main reasons I'm still here.

I fully agree. I'm expection SGR romances to be implemented eventually. If they're not coming, flirts aren't gonna do it for me.

 

People hate retcons. Except when they like/love them.

Some people hate that Tali and Garrus are romance options. Others love it.

The former have the option to simply not engage in the content.

True.

 

But it didn't. After 6 months it was still at 1.3m and only sunk to 'well over 500k' ten months after launch.
I have read different numbers. I also read they needed around 2m subs to operate a healthy game so whatever the numbers exactly were, they were too low and continuously sinking, at least during the first few months.
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I have read different numbers. I also read they needed around 2m subs to operate a healthy game so whatever the numbers exactly were, they were too low and continuously sinking, at least during the first few months.

 

That is completely and utterly false, they stated 500k subs would keep the game profitable.

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From what I've heard LadyKulvax is right on this one - except for WoW SW:TOR is economically seen the most succesful MMOG in existance. The subscriber number never dropped beneath 500k. In fact, it didn't get anywhere near that even though the did express vaguely. Yes, the subscriber number was declining, but they in every single months comfortably above their break even. And the break even is indeed 500k measured in subscriptions, which is unusual, because that's a lot more than the vast majority of games, which get along with 100k.

 

From EAs point of view SW:TOR is very profitable. I've read that it's among the top ten of their most profitable titles - but not among their top five.

Edited by Rabenschwinge
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From what I've heard LadyKulvax is right on this one - except for WoW SW:TOR is economically seen the most succesful MMOG in existance. The subscriber number never dropped beneath 500k. In fact, it didn't get anywhere near that even though the did express vaguely. Yes, the subscriber number was declining, but they in every single months comfortably above their break even. And the break even is indeed 500k measured in subscriptions, which is unusual, because that's a lot more than the vast majority of games, which get along with 100k.

True, this is the case now with a switch to F2P. But had the game been healthy in any way a year ago, they wouldn't have let half of the staff go and had never gone F2P in the first place.

 

Anyways, we're off topic. Let's return to the topic of this thread, guys.

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True, this is the case now with a switch to F2P. But had the game been healthy in any way a year ago, they wouldn't have let half of the staff go and had never gone F2P in the first place.

 

Anyways, we're off topic. Let's return to the topic of this thread, guys.

There are no solid, official numbers which show the development since F2P yet.

 

No, this is the state in last autumn. The game has always been successful, just not as successful as they started with and their numbers were declining. But SW:TOR never wrote red numbers, not for a month, and certainly not for a quarter. But it is still the second most successful MMO in existance.

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Having read page after page prior to posting, I still feel if you couldn't please all sides, none should have got anything. However, that's not what we have. It now places, in my opinion, the community in a awkward position. You have players like me who support SGR, it's just I don't want companions to suddenly make a pass at me out of the blue. It's nothing personal. It just not the relationship I have with them. But, that has to do with how I view my BH, SI, Trooper, & JC. I get others will disagree, but yeah. It'll feel weird if the OGR romances came up and did that too..

 

While I don't care if you romance Andros or Gault, that doesn't mean I want to, and honestly? That's not a conversation I want to have with them. In another play through? Sure. The one I'm currently on? Nope. They're battle buddies. They roll with me because I KNOW they will get me into trouble. That's why their my companions.

 

Any ways, if current players can't romance them, that means those who wanted to romance have to reroll, and honestly? That's jacked up. But if you can, you have players like me who sailed past that point and would rather not go there just because we can. Will I next time? Yep. Now? Nope. Just makes this awkward no matter how it is handled. It'll be another Anders, and I'd rather not go there.

Edited by jason_ralph
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You players like me who support SGR, it's just I don't want companions to suddenly make a pass at me out of the blue.

 

I was under the impression that every romance in SWTOR needs the player to initiate it (with the exception of Aric Jorgan and Corso Riggs who trick female characters into romances) - not the companion. If you're afraid of being tricked into the romance, as Aric and Corso can for female characters, then write to Bioware and make them aware of that dirty little part of those characters.

 

Just because the male companions are a romance option for you to choose if you wish, does not mean they're going to harass you into submission. Unless maybe it's Corso.

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Just because the male companions are a romance option for you to choose if you wish, does not mean they're going to harass you into submission. Unless maybe it's Corso.

*coughs* Where can I subscribe? :rolleyes:

 

Jk...

 

Well, this whole tricking into a relationship thing... Smuggler guy has needed quite a few conversations to convince Risha he's not into her.

 

Maybe that's a general problem with these romances. A bit annoying maybe, but no game breaker for me.

Edited by Lent_San
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Ugh Corso. Why is it I dislike everything about that guy? Is it the white knighting, manipulation, and inability to give a straight answer when you can spot all the inconsistencies in his stories from like a mile away? Thank goodness you can shut down the romance option early on, because there was no way that was going to work out with a determined and independent smuggler tomboy, lightside or not.

 

I know why you have that idea and while it could be done quite well, I think it would too easily lend itself to an abusive power dynamic. I'm not saying it shouldn't be ruled out, but the story start itself seems, to me, to be a bit problematic.

 

Also, how would those post-50 get the companion? For some classes this doesn't make sense - my Phantom would have far better security than that, but the Mantis (BH ship?) seems like a leaky rust-bucket.

 

Less abusive than all the teacher/student employer/employee military officer/subordinate relationships?

 

As for after 50, same way you get HK as a companion. You unlock them, probably with a cartel purchase. Which would be my point when I said make two same sex romance characters unlockable.

 

The stowaway idea isn't integral, it was just a possible introduction storyline

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I was under the impression that every romance in SWTOR needs the player to initiate it (with the exception of Aric Jorgan and Corso Riggs who trick female characters into romances) - not the companion. If you're afraid of being tricked into the romance, as Aric and Corso can for female characters, then write to Bioware and make them aware of that dirty little part of those characters.

 

Just because the male companions are a romance option for you to choose if you wish, does not mean they're going to harass you into submission. Unless maybe it's Corso.

 

Doc can become quite annoying until you have the chance to shoot him down with a female Jedi Knight... and I am pretty certain I never clicked a flirt option. My smuggler is pretty low level yet and so far I have no reason to dislike Corso - in fact I am not 100% whether she'd want to say no, even though he's got the wrong species.

Edited by Rabenschwinge
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I was under the impression that every romance in SWTOR needs the player to initiate it (with the exception of Aric Jorgan and Corso Riggs who trick female characters into romances) - not the companion. If you're afraid of being tricked into the romance, as Aric and Corso can for female characters, then write to Bioware and make them aware of that dirty little part of those characters.

 

Just because the male companions are a romance option for you to choose if you wish, does not mean they're going to harass you into submission. Unless maybe it's Corso.

 

Still doesn't change the fact that I don't want to get harassed about it,

Edited by jason_ralph
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I was under the impression that every romance in SWTOR needs the player to initiate it (with the exception of Aric Jorgan and Corso Riggs who trick female characters into romances) - not the companion. If you're afraid of being tricked into the romance, as Aric and Corso can for female characters, then write to Bioware and make them aware of that dirty little part of those characters.

 

Just because the male companions are a romance option for you to choose if you wish, does not mean they're going to harass you into submission. Unless maybe it's Corso.

 

I understand; however, for Andros & Gault (as an example) to randomly bring it up wouldn't make sense. In another play through (I play two of all classes to see another possible outcome)? Sure, by all means. Current one? No. I appreciate we disagree, however.

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Still doesn't change the fact that I don't want to get harassed about it,

 

Sorry if it feels as if I'm attacking you, but I've seen that rather baseless argument a lot from the anti crowd.

 

I understand; however, for Andros & Gault (as an example) to randomly bring it up wouldn't make sense. In another play through (I play two of all classes to see another possible outcome)? Sure, by all means. Current one? No. I appreciate we disagree, however.

 

Who?

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Sorry if it feels as if I'm attacking you, but I've seen that rather baseless argument a lot from the anti crowd.

 

 

 

Who?

 

 

I am for it, and have been. I still feel (rather strongly), if SGR couldn't be in, OGR shouldn't have been. But that's me. I get that is a common "excuse", "justification", "reason", etc. of the anti crowd. For me, I have a(n) attachment to Andros & Gault. The other companions are okay, just those two are my favorite. I also get it puts those who have progressed or completed the class stories in a bad spot (I'm pretty sure others like them, too). And it wouldn't be fair to those to have to replay. Which is why I'm sure someone will feel short changed. Not sure how that will go, just get it doesn't mean I'm against it.

 

Andros, whose name I shorten from Andronikus Revel is a companion of the Sith Inquisitor. Gault, is a companion of the Bounty Hunter. I am sure romancing them would be fun, for a lot of reasons. However, that's not the relationship they have with the BH & SI am currently playing. I have played two of every class. I'm all down for a romance the second time. This one? It'll ruin it. I'm in the early stages of Act 3 currently. Maybe I'm off, but I'd feel by now they would have made a pass at me (or vice versa). As it stands, it'll feel forced, and I'd rather have it done right. But yeah, that's just my opinion on it.

Edited by jason_ralph
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Oh, right, Andronikus and Gault, I thought you were making some sort of Dragon Effect reference.

 

I suppose that's a personal thing, though. I don't believe I'd care that much about seeing a [Flirt] option suddenly pop up for Ashara on either my Sorcerer or Assassin, but that's because I know neither of them would be interested in her (Sorc sees her as a pupil and my Sin is a human purist.)

 

Also, how right or not it feels would, I think, largely depend on how Bioware try to write the romances in (and whether they're applicable retroactively, which they should be, but anyway...) and in keeping they are with what we know about the current companions. If Andronikus becomes a gay romance option, it'd be truly idiotic of them to make him some camp stereotype* in those conversations, because that's not how his personality is - he is, from what I've seen, a rugged romantic: he likes the emotional and intimate moments, but he's not soppy, multi-string pet name, drown-the-Fury-in-rose-petals romantic. Change up a couple of lines and the scenes from the current female-partner romance with him would work just as well with a male partner.

 

*Although one would hope they stay away from introducing stereotypes as a quick fix solution anyway.

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I lack subtlety.

If I was to make a reference to Anders (I'm guessing that's who you mean), I'd just go there. I still have no clue how Anders' goes from doing every skirt (female) he could get close to in Awakening, to wanting my skirt (character was a Mage). I still want to know what happened. That how you go from cracking wise *** remarks, to dark & gloomy.

Far as stereotypes... I will say they are either humerus or awful. Look no further than the trooper. The class story & companions, come off as the stereotypical view of the military (by those who don't serve), that (as one who served), it cracks me up at points. But yeah, they shouldn't go there.

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I support same gender sex. As a male player, I want my female characters do "the thing" with female companions. Watching them will be fun :p:D

 

The characters we are playing are not us. Why take a game so serious?

 

Well a lot of people, escpecially those who are actually gay, take it pretty serious, because they feel that they are cut out and neglected. BioWare games have features same gender romances in the past, but this game does not even though it does feature romances to the degree that there is at least one option in every single class, and lots of minor one-night-stands and hasty kisses along the path, depending on what class you choose. The problem is less the actual absence of same gender romances, but this feeling of being treated unfair for marketing convenience. It may even go as far as to read an implicit statement against homosexuality.

 

People who are against it usually are because they think they'd be harassed by characters of their own gender, which would fundamentally change the relationship towards them. If you have a good buddy you're going to war with and share your stories, and he suddenly wants into your bed that fundamentally changes the relationship towards that character.

 

Other people refuse it for cultural and religious reasons, often fielding the argument that their children might be drawn to homosexuality if it is depicted in a positive way.

Edited by Rabenschwinge
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The developers answered questions about Makeb at South by Southwest (SXSW) and the video is online now. Unfortunately the audience didn't seem very engaged, they had trouble getting questions and none of the questions they got felt very inspired.

 

Nothing directly relating to SGRAs was discussed, but one person did ask about the level of companion interaction on Makeb. Those of us who love our companions will undoubtedly be disappointed with the answer, which is that companion content will be very light, limited to only quick comments.

 

Still, in discussing how important companions are to the game and the dev team, Mr. Schubert did let one kernel of enticing information slip. He says:

We are not only always looking for ways to make our current interactions with companions better - I actually have two design documents on my desk right now for ideas that have been thrown at me for ways to do that, way in the future, NOT SOON - but we're also looking at ways to expand that cast of characters and bring more interesting characters in for the players to enjoy as well.

 

So, not promising for anything involving current companions at any near-future date. Still, we can hope that one of those two design documents on his desk pertains to SGRAs. (Or if your an optimist we can hope the not soon refers to the documents on his desk, and SGRAs are already past that point...)

 

It's so frustrating that the people that attend these things always ask the same stuff. It's discouraging that we never seem to get anyone standing up live and asking a question about SGRAs, where they can't just ignore the question.

 

They were practically begging for questions in that room. If any of the people that keep on top of this issue had been in that room, it seems like it would be so easy to ask the question. Unfortunately, it doesn't appear that there were. I wish all these things weren't so far away from where I live.

 

EDIT: Oops I forgot to link the video, didn't I? Here it is:

Edited by Slaign
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They were practically begging for questions in that room. If any of the people that keep on top of this issue had been in that room, it seems like it would be so easy to ask the question. Unfortunately, it doesn't appear that there were. I wish all these things weren't so far away from where I live.

 

I'd have bombarded them with question - everything from class balancing (of which I know nothing) to SGRAs and chairs. Of course, I can only go as far as Brighton and apparently they don't "do" questions at their pub crawls.

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