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Master Mode The Nature of Progress Operation Feedback

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Public Test Server
Master Mode The Nature of Progress Operation Feedback
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Prog's Avatar

03.21.2020 , 05:20 AM | #21
So with this trandoshans being around with amazing changes and huntmaster not really seen ye mucht, can we get a kill button for pens for easier testing? Pens 2 only became killable since yesterday (according to patch notes, not sure if anybody tested it) and Trandoshans already received 2-3 updates since last time they were accessible. There are also no devs around at EU raiding times to ask them for 'kill pens for us plz we wanna test trandoshans etc'. Pretty please

And I second what Hercology says about Red - this corona lockout thing is not nice, it breaks the concept and overall makes some classes that are bad for movement (sniper turret style I am looking at you) kind of garbage. It shouldnt be memeful easy boss, but right now you are making it way more complicated than just 'entry level test' boss. Think about casual players, how else will they access these new lit set bonuses except farming Red and not being able to do Pens!

Also I genuinely wonder why PTS is down every time my EU team is ready to test some bosses

@Hercology a rare bug with Acid Jet hitting other direction than VFX shows is not so rare here on the other side of the Earth. It is latency-based and solution we found is: 'if you are main tank. don't touch those movement buttons much when Jet is soon, your screen position and your server position are not very synced' it still means some desync in Acidic Jet itself, but the fact that you encountered it once and we encountered it a lot just proves me that it has something to do with lag.
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AMAirlines's Avatar

03.22.2020 , 08:07 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by Hercology View Post
My raid team and I tested Red today and while the fight is different and will be killed in this iteration, we found a few issues that need fixed.

The first thing we noticed is that DPS get flower refreshes off the corona virus buff that prevents stacks. However when our tanks tried to get that they were denied no matter how hard we tried. Either remove the DPS refresh or allow tanks to get it. My recommendation is to allow the tanks to get 1 refresh 15 seconds in. So 1 minute from flower to flower. This makes the fight slightly shorter.

The second flower area a random bull spawns there like 15% of the pulls we did. That is a bit odd. Consider removing the bull here because its not hard to deal with and only prolongs the fight. Is it a bug? Who knows.

The bull needs to be fixed. Having a tank not be able to pick it up because they cannot see it is going to frustrate raiders if that hits live. This is THE most important fix that this fight needs.

A rare bug we encountered was acid jet hitting the raid while Red was facing an entirely different direction. That only happened once.

A special note to the developers of raids. I am extremely concerned about the testing for Red. All of the posts on the forums are from players in Top-End guilds, which does not represent all raiders at a Nightmare level. Red is the entry boss to the new raid and should be accessible to most Nightmare capable teams. Having another raid at the level of Gods of the machine will alienate some of these teams and deny access to fun NEW content due to skill gap. While
Gods of the Machine was a fun and well designed raid, it was tuned to the top raiders in the game and having back to back raids tuned that way will bum some people out. Consider Nightmare power buffs (DF/DP) to appease the elitists and then remove those and add nerfs down the road so that bosses can be accessed by more of the Nightmare community. I believe this will increase interest in Nightmare raiding as well as bring back some of the old raiders of the game. Big brain I know.
If I can ask, how were you guys doing the fight, my team went back into Dxun NiM today and was very easily able to pick up the new positioning in Red, we actually ended up finding it almost easier to deal with the bulls since they always spawn in the same place. In the end, everything just seemed very consistent for us and we ended up killing as well. Perhaps if you give insight on how you did the fight maybe what the problem is that you're having can be solved.
Presrjur (sin/jugg/pt dps/tank) - 36/37 NiM Completion 6/7 timed

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Prog's Avatar

04.09.2020 , 06:56 PM | #23
Caustic Plume doesn't seem to react to extreme heat sources as described somewhere before.
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Prog's Avatar

04.13.2020 , 04:32 PM | #24
Here is some feedback from my group.

Containment Protocol trash encounters:
  • New group added at elevator tends to fall under floor, often evading.
  • Organic Purge seems to do quite a lot of damage to adds, simply kiting Combat Medics kills them within ~30s.
  • There is a chance for player to receive 2 stacks of Organic Purge and they stay up even in the room with Titax. Had to wait for person to naturally die, we revive and debuff doesnt reapply luckily.
  • Now the worst: battery seems to clone itself under some unknown circumstances...and it keeps reappearing even
    after we use elevator. It basically keeps re-spawning in Titax's room every time we wipe. And sometimes you choose to stand in Fires of Greus instead of accidentally picking that battery. We even though this is intended and you had to carry it up to Apex...alas we couldn't make any stims off this battery
  • The biggest laugh I had was wiping on Huntmaster and seeing battery spawn on top of my body.

Now down to Mutant Trandoshan Squad. Overall design of the fight does not feel pleasant (I mean its NiM but still). To minmax everything and fulfill the DPS check we need close to ideal boss killing on rails (especially with amazing short Titax torpor - we loved it, no sarcasm, really). But the fact that Divebomb, Crush the Weak and Titax Strike involve big repositioning of corresponding boss and don't have a very strict timer (kiting the boss literally delays his Titax Strike from 20s to 30s, easy) means that bringing these bosses to rails at appropriate time is even more of a problem and it all comes down to a bit of luck regarding timer correspondence and hence frustrates those who rely on skill (all NiM raiders).
You'd say Titax Strike doesnt involve that big repositioning if we do a tank swap, but he becomes tauntable only after running 10m towards pushed target or it is that famous desync. Also you can tell that Divebomb and Crush the Weak are both skill check - target person could move in the right position for everyone's convenience. But their circle is same color so person doesnt know which boss he is targeted with. Also Divebomb 3s cast time doesn't really provide reliable repositioning chance. Overall boss is difficult and fun, we like it. But it is rather clunky to deal with.
So suggestion I have is:
  • Change color of Divebomb/Crush the Weak to be able to quickly distinguish them
  • Increase cast time of Divebomb on the price of idling time Greus has between Divebomb and Pyroclasm (literally 2-3 standing waiting doing nothing) or on the price of Pyroclasm.
Also as I've said in the previous post we didn't seem to catch any dependence of Caustic Plume to extreme heat sources.
And yeah Pyroclasm kind of lost its reflect component, not sure if intended, but it kinda makes RDPS > MDPS again. Not cool

I don't know how this is still a thing, but why the hell Titax Strike stunlocks so badly. Can't we make it work like Impel on Revan? You literally have no warning of being stunned to death unless you were lucky to be in cool position. This is super clunky if you include boss' big hit box and his tendency to dance around the player changing the push angle by 30 or even 60 degrees.

We hate you, Matt. Not being able to jump on stairs down is the worst feature ever. We are glad on PTS you can access elevator without stairs down, but seriously...I know its a good troll, but you gonna put time run there right? Imagine all the hate? Terrible, absolutely terrible...

So its, maybe not tuned well enough, we only damaged him to 70% at best when he goes first lake. I guess it could be possible to push him to 35% with <2 lake phases but requires some mad skills and add management being a bit RNG does not biggest and most disappointing things we encounter on Huntmaster:
  • Huntmaster's position being desynced and melees can't hit it (I know its not new but you tell you release NiM on June - please fix it!)
  • Huntmatser's position being desynced and group cant protect itself from Powershot Volley (I know its not new but you tell you release NiM on June - please fix it!)
  • Light moves, Huntmaster teleports and immediatelly after does Egg Shot, oneshotting the guy who had the debuff already and had no idea about boss teleport (I know its not new...)
Now last one seems to be the biggest problem. Boss doesn't teleport midcast. So if flare moved out of him during the cast he will teleport only after. This often leaves tank who takes Penetrating Shot outside flare and hence adds jump on imagine what happens next. Alternatives are a) group being outside light b) tank being in light with group, PENETRATING them all. All I am saying is that with groups' perfect movement and Firestorm Grenade placement it is still impossible to maintain desired inside-flare uptime and avoid all the unnecessary damage that often oneshots you. I know its NiM, but it is really bad design here. I say flare movement should be synced with boss casts. On HM it was easier to deal with since tank could stay out and get aggro of wild animals. Now animals seem to have higher threat on fresh person to exit light even if tank outside has just taunted the adds. Its ok - makes fight harder, we love it. But rendering situation when it is not fortress and standing inside light is impossible due to boss' casts...that puts big frustration on our souls.

Bird mechanic and Kolto Missile is hated by part of our team, but overall is fine. Still this doesnt make this fight to feel like a complete NiM yet, just saying. Everything doing big damage is cool, but needs more mechanical additions, really.

And yeah melee unfriendly raids...come on, this gets worse and worse. Aggrotable of Lurking Beasts leaves mdps no chance.
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DanielSteed's Avatar

04.21.2020 , 12:05 PM | #25 Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread. Next  
Hello everyone!

PTS will be up and running again momentarily. With that, we have another batch of changes for Master Mode:

  • The total number of mines has decreased. For now.
  • Nightmare Crystals no longer function in Dxun
  • Fixed multiple issues with pathfinding / evasion in the central complex
  • Addressed a number of minor quirks in the balance math in preparation for some Mark of Mastery achievements
  • The battery from the central complex can no longer apply the Tired debuff to NPCs

Red, the Pack Leader
  • There is no longer a flower in the sky.
  • Iron Hide now has an associated visual effect (WIP)
  • Added achievements for clearing the encounter in 8/16 Master (Mark of Mastery achievements are still in the process of being added)

Holding Pens
  • A Delicious Rampaging Charger now appears during the encounter which most Felshade Reapers find to be very enticing.
  • It is no longer possible to cheat the reapers by using a box hop.
  • Added achievements for clearing the encounter in 8/16 Master (Mark of Mastery achievements are still in the process of being added)

Containment Protocol (Mutant Trandoshans)
  • Resolved an issue preventing the Ultimate Hunter from appearing upon meeting the required conditions
  • Added achievements for clearing the encounter in 8/16 Master (Mark of Mastery achievements are still in the process of being added)
  • Fixed an issue with the skip button & defeating the Ultimate Trandoshan
  • Improved visual effects for Divebomb

  • Reduced the total health of the Felshades which appear during the encounter by approximately 20%
  • Attempted to address an issue with a race condition when pushing the boss while flying fortress is active (uncertain of this succeeded, though)

Apex Vanguard
  • Removed camera collision on objects that meddled with the camera in some areas
  • The 2nd battery now correctly appears when plugged in by the Repair Droid
  • Resolved an issue where generating a third flare appeared to have no charge cost
  • The battery will no longer explode upon reaching maximum charge (it will still explode when exceeding maximum charge)

Let us know your thoughts!

Daniel Steed | Community Coordinator
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RikuvonDrake's Avatar

04.21.2020 , 12:21 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by DanielSteed View Post

Apex Vanguard
  • Removed camera collision on objects that meddled with the camera in some areas
This might actually have been the most anticipated fix in the history of fixes

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Huskernutz's Avatar

04.27.2020 , 09:19 PM | #27
Ordinance Feedback from the latest PTS build

the fight felt a lot better with the less non-random flower spawns it's nice to not have to potentially reset this guy for timed run. The addition of the dripping venom buff at the beginning of the encounter was also a good change to add some damage to the raid at the beginning. While we didn't have too many issues with the new Reek spawn there were still instances where sometimes the reek would dissapear under the ground and then reappear after dying so there might potentially still be some edge cases where it's bugging out. Overall though the fight feels very good at this point, the one thing I would add though is to have the adds from the fight despawn after killing Red .

After getting a substantial amount of pulls into this fight there are some glaring problems that we believe this fight has. The first being the targeting priority of Crush the Weak, this ability has multiple times over our testing targeted the tanks on Hyssiphus and Kronissus and while it targeting the first had generally not been an issue due to the buff range of Titax even if you immediately leaves the Kronissus tank the buff will linger long enough to cause the tank to get rooted by the buffed melee and potentially not be able to sidestep or immune the bosses conal. We suggest that Crush the Weak should either momentarily not buff the bosses after the leap or preferably not be able to target people who've recently been hit by Kronissus or Hyssiphus' melees. Additionally the threat drop from Greus after divebomb was creating a lot of threat issues for our kiter who was running a ranged dps as if they got the divebomb they would not be able to regrab aggro of the boss for quite a while which was frustrating. If the intention is that we instead run a taunting melee dps for Greus then I would highly suggest reducing the damage of the AoEs that Greus does, including pyroclasm, as we've avoided doing this to reduce raid damage since it's already very high.

As for the overall cadence of the fight, the initial dps check on Titax feels fine with having a ranged dps kite Greus, although if we were to have a melee kite him I would suggest a slight health reduction on Titax due to the dimished uptime. As for the period after Titax dies, the only real feedback for this section would be to potentially increase the buff application time from 80s to 90s. Almost everytime we got to the point where we could push the final bosses they had already had their second stack of Path of Transcendence for 10-15s and this is with a dps comp that beat the previous three fights enrages by 1-2min so this mini-enrage at two stacks feels just a little too tight in the current iteration. As for the Ultimate Hunter if the intention with this boi is cause utter chaos at the end of the fight then it's doing a great job, the only bit of feedback I would give is to reduce the damage of fire & ice a smidge and give an extra second or two for people to dodge the line attacked that does the knockback since we currently have to pre-move the boss to dodge it.

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DanielSteed's Avatar

04.29.2020 , 12:14 PM | #28 This is the last staff post in this thread.  
Hey everyone!

The PTS was updated earlier today, and with it came these changes to Master Mode.

Containment Protocol (Mutant Trandoshans)
  • Fixed the button on Master difficulty.
  • Added collision to prevent various exploits beneath the ramp.

Apex Vanguard
  • Acid Blast can no longer deal an instance of damage more often than every 1.5s from a stack increase event.
  • Using a stim will now remove 25 stacks worth of Tired tick rate acceleration.
  • Deprioritize now falls off after 30 seconds of gaining no new stacks and hard enforces threat drop at 20 stacks.
  • Blinding Spray now causes the nearest tank to suffer significant internal damage.
  • Darkness Overdrive damage growth is increased substantially in Master mode.
  • Bloodlust now hits substantially harder.

Let us know your thoughts!

Daniel Steed | Community Coordinator
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BishopSMASH's Avatar

05.14.2020 , 02:33 PM | #29
The second rampaging bull spawn on Red is inconsistent with its visibility. I'd say one third of the time I can't see the honking brute, sometimes for a few seconds, other times at all.

This is very unfortunate and I can't believe I have to deal with bugs on the test server (/s )

Overall though, a pretty good introductory boss I'd say.

In addition to the second bull, the third is also inconsistent with appearing or not.
Jugg and finesse.

adrunktick's Avatar

06.02.2020 , 08:09 AM | #30
Is there an updated timeline to the release date?
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