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Debunking false ideas about Mara/Sents in PVP


Phasersablaze

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Someone should make a guide how to kill Mara : ) but I don't wanna do it - wouldn't help me. I feel i can probably kill 90% of Maras 1on1 on my server and I'm not even full War Hero yet with mine.

 

Not to play the devil's advocate, but 90% Marauders are, to put it gently, not very good at what they do.

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Your argument is so dumb I'm not sure I should respond to it, but I will. A stun doesn't prevent a person from getting FFed, which is what kills people in pvp. GBTF on the other hand prevents you from getting FFed. People hate GBTF because it is a guaranteed 4 more seconds of life when being FFed. 4 more seconds is a long time in pvp because that means 4 seconds u can hold an objective longer, kill someone else, or be healed.

 

You do have a stun, its called force stasis. Yes it is a self stun and channeled, but it does pretty good damage. Other classes stuns may be instant, but theirs don't do much damage at all. That is the trade off.

 

Here's the part where your argument is dumb: if it's more than a 1v1 then cc the sent (or ignore him) and ff the healer(s) first. If you are ff the wrong target you need to work on your team targeting (l2p)?

 

Force stasis vs regular stun:

3 v 4 secs

Can be broken by any stray cc in the game

Very weak damage

Syncing issues can leave my sent out of melee range while using

 

My sent will take a stun over GBTF any day of the week. It's a better defense in skirmishes and duels and it's the best offense vs healers.

Edited by WaywardOne
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Not to play the devil's advocate, but 90% Marauders are, to put it gently, not very good at what they do.

 

True. But it helps to know how to fight them a lot. Most other players are similarly bad. Whats to expect when Sorc is standing still in the place and fight 1on1 with Mara - and then whine when she dies... What do people expect? To fight vs melee class, stand in place and win.. Not gonna happen.

Helpful advice to some players: when you start fighting next time 1v1 vs Mara (and other good solo classes), rethink, run to your friend. Continue fight.

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How about you trying to play mara/sent first and then come back talk about ir.

 

Tipically I activate stealth when I want to avoid death. In these cases most of the time I am slowed and focused to death so I must go stealth. In these precious 4 seconds Mara can barrely (or CANT at all) get time to hide behind a wall. And Mara CANNOT HEAL - where did you get this ??. Every class can use medpack, when you decide to use is your will. Mara can be killed while invisible also..

 

Stealth is best used to switch focus from self.. Jump smash - everyone focuses you - go invis - attack somone else in 3-4 sec. Most noob players can't focus you again.

 

Any marauder worth his salt knows how to invis, wait until they are OOC and heal up to full again to rejoin a battle. Don't act like 4 secs is not a long time either, in every map I have plenty of time to go and hide after my camo use. I honestly don't know why I have to explain this to you, if you already know about your class.

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@jadescythe- I like how you consider me getting off topic and not adding much to the discussion, but a post like this is perfectly fine. Also there are many others that just say "L2P", I guess those posters aren't getting off topic as well. :rolleyes:

 

I guess biased people will be biased.

 

On that note, marauders still have the best defensives and the highest damage output of any class. Mean while they got stealth and a gap closer. Also they have the strongest speed boost in the game, dang sounds kinda OP to me!

 

To be honest, I wasn't posting while asleep or while playing (my one post last night was when I logged out and went to bed), but you are right. Most of the arguments come down to L2P in these threads or one liners about how OMG this is OP or not OP (done equally by both sides). In my defense, while I was on yesterday, your spat with Arash went like 4 pages with nothing constructive (all deleted).

 

This is continuing on with other people here that should follow your lead and post something constructive that can be debated. If a post consists merely of a complaint about what an ability can do, then it is not constructive. If the post simply says UR is OP because it lets you live for 4 seconds, then that is sort of a no brainer (copy and paste from any SWTOR website). It is the description of what the ability does, not a reason for why it is OP. Some people make the next step and say that coupled with other abilities, it gives mara/sent more survivability than they should have (some with correct info and supporting facts, others not so much). Another point that can be debated based on the contents of the post, but this is where a majority of people stop.

 

There has to be some type of change that you are suggesting. You made suggestions Tridus, which I appreciate and responded to. By opening this dialogue, you can get the perspective of those who play the class and who have a unique knowledge of how that class would perform given the change. I would guess a majority of people have never played a mara/sent and don't know how much they rely on those DCDs to survive or they wouldn't be calling for nerfs in the manner that they are.

 

As to the post that I made, you're correct that it was off topic and not, strictly speaking, constructive. But when someone has nothing constructive posted, it is hard to make a logical argument. Besides, if I have to be completely constructive in EVERY post, I'll lose track of the fact that this is a game.

 

TL;DR L2P is never a solution and a large majority of posts are worthless. Teach someone how to play and keep troll posts to 1-2 replies instead.

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Sith Warrior

 

Marauder

 

Undying Rage now no longer consumes 50% of the players current health when activated and its duration is now 5 seconds. The effect no longer reduces damage by 99% but now increases resistance to force and tech attacks by 100% and melee defense by 50%. Undying Rage now also removes all movement impairing effects when activated.

 

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I would like to respond, but I'm not exactly sure what you are claiming with all of this. I assume you are complaining about Rage with the 6.6k derps, which is more of a warrior issue than just maras. I assume cloak is their force camo, which lasts all of 4 seconds (6 if talented in carnage) and they continue being damaged, so if they have a DoT they still die. If you take 15k damage from them during UR, then you are going to die long before they have to use it. Maybe you should consider what you could do differently to avoid 15k damage in 5 seconds (3 globals). Is speed buff in reference to predation? This is not available on demand (unless other CDs are up) and stops them from using some other abilities that may be more helpful to their spec (Berserk for shockwave in Rage, heals in Anni, or lower GCD and rage cost of abilities in carnage).

 

Based on your comments, perhaps you should look more into the class and learn how to counter the abilities that are giving you the most trouble and plan accordingly. There is plenty of material out on these forums as well as third party sites to assist you if you continually have problems with marauders.

 

A lot of bluster from another mara. You cannot interrupt leap, when they're on you , all the cc in the works isn't going to stop one face rolling. I don't care who you are unless you can stealth if course.

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I'd agree with this, but it makes the point that marauders are not the sole good class (I certainly agree they're not a viable blueprint, way too easy to do well in). The viable classes are all excellent when played well and relatively balanced between each other. In my view, the non-viable classes need to be buffed up to this level, rather than 1 of the viables getting brought down.

 

 

 

15k in 4 seconds requires 7.5k per hit (GCD= 1.5 secs, UD lasts 4 seconds so only 2 abilities can be used) which is almost impossible for a marauder. Would be possible with rage, but 1 spec shouldn't determine class balance and most agree rage needs a bit of tuning anyway.

 

I would certainly take marauders in world pvp, UD would become even more crucial with the masses of damage flying about (predation would be even more powerful too). Cloak isn't a problem as it only lasts a few seconds, just keep an eye out for where they pop up. Note that they aren't immune to ccs either, requires the use of cooldowns (and then only limited) that would have been useful if not 'wasted'.

 

You take a mara in to true open world against stealth squads and you're gonna cry foul. Warzones are full of derp smash mara nabs with pocket healers. It's a joke, you know it's a joke and its only a matter of time before your nerfed.

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A lot of bluster from another mara. You cannot interrupt leap, when they're on you , all the cc in the works isn't going to stop one face rolling. I don't care who you are unless you can stealth if course.

 

You clearly have a very hard time fighting against marauders. YOu can Counter them and CC is very effective against a marauder.

 

You are right you can't interrupt a force charge- its instant. But you would probably benefit by dueling a mara guild mate and having them give you some tips and Practice.

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Sith Warrior

 

Marauder

 

Undying Rage now no longer consumes 50% of the players current health when activated and its duration is now 5 seconds. The effect no longer reduces damage by 99% but now increases resistance to force and tech attacks by 100% and melee defense by 50%. Undying Rage now also removes all movement impairing effects when activated.

 

 

I would somehow manage to live with this nerf.

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A lot of bluster from another mara. You cannot interrupt leap, when they're on you , all the cc in the works isn't going to stop one face rolling. I don't care who you are unless you can stealth if course.

 

I believe the solution offered by another poster of dueling a mara frequently may assist you in countering the abilities they possess, but I apologize that I cannot be more helpful to you since you have provided no descriptions and I am working from guesswork. I also can only provide solid counters for sorc/sage since that is my main (no mara bluster here) and I only have a level 38 marauder. If you would like some advice, I'm sure we'd be happy to assist if you provided your current class and strategy with what is giving you the most trouble at this time. I am pretty familiar with the mechanics of most classes, sin/shadow being my weakest area but also one that doesn't have much trouble with maras right now.

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Here's the part where your argument is dumb: if it's more than a 1v1 then cc the sent (or ignore him) and ff the healer(s) first. If you are ff the wrong target you need to work on your team targeting (l2p)?

 

Force stasis vs regular stun:

3 v 4 secs

Can be broken by any stray cc in the game

Very weak damage

Syncing issues can leave my sent out of melee range while using

 

My sent will take a stun over GBTF any day of the week. It's a better defense in skirmishes and duels and it's the best offense vs healers.

 

If you would trade UR/GBTF for a stun, then you have a serious lack of understanding when it comes to PVP. Nothing can beat a godmode ability in objective based PVP, and if you were a good player you wouldn't have trouble killing healers in the first place.

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Sith Warrior

 

Marauder

 

Undying Rage now no longer consumes 50% of the players current health when activated and its duration is now 5 seconds. The effect no longer reduces damage by 99% but now increases resistance to force and tech attacks by 100% and melee defense by 50%. Undying Rage now also removes all movement impairing effects when activated.

 

 

So, like a more awesome version of force shroud/resilience

No, resilience is mine! you can not has

:p

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Here's the part where your argument is dumb: if it's more than a 1v1 then cc the sent (or ignore him) and ff the healer(s) first. If you are ff the wrong target you need to work on your team targeting (l2p)?

 

Force stasis vs regular stun:

3 v 4 secs

Can be broken by any stray cc in the game

Very weak damage

Syncing issues can leave my sent out of melee range while using

 

My sent will take a stun over GBTF any day of the week. It's a better defense in skirmishes and duels and it's the best offense vs healers.

 

And you just proved my point why GBTF is better than a stun. It forces team to NOT FF the sent. And CCing them only works if their healers are too stupid to use cleanse.

 

It's funny you claim having a regular stun is the best defense in skirmishes and duels, yet fail to realize sents are currently one of the best duelers right now, even though every other class (except guardians) has a regular stun, and sents don't.

 

God you are bad. Like 700 RWZ rating bad. And the worst part about your baddiness is that you really think you're good. You're the kind of idiot who probably yells at their team in WZs for sucking, but at the end of the match has done jack****. Please go play Hello Kitty Island Adventures instead.

Edited by Smashbrother
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If you would trade UR/GBTF for a stun, then you have a serious lack of understanding when it comes to PVP. Nothing can beat a godmode ability in objective based PVP, and if you were a good player you wouldn't have trouble killing healers in the first place.

 

How many times have I explained to you how easy it is to counter Undying Rage. Seriously if you and your team are not a bunch of complete and total idiots you could completely shut down my rotation then when i hit UR around 25% shut that down bam I'm dead. Its not the fault of those of us that play mara that most pplare to frickin stupid to learn the counters and instead scream nerf.

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How many times have I explained to you how easy it is to counter Undying Rage. Seriously if you and your team are not a bunch of complete and total idiots you could completely shut down my rotation then when i hit UR around 25% shut that down bam I'm dead. Its not the fault of those of us that play mara that most pplare to frickin stupid to learn the counters and instead scream nerf.

 

A veteran PVP player would understand that PVP environment is very volatile. Sorry, but "use your stun" looks great on paper, but just isn't practical. What if your stun is down from having used it on someone else? What if you are stunned yourself by someone else? What is he has full resolve? Once again, this is 8v8 not 1v1 and anyone who would even consider trading UR/GBTF for a stun lacks fundamental understanding of the PVP environment.

 

A good marauder will learn how to take advantace of the situation and use his abilities (including Undying Rage) to their fullest potential.

Edited by Phasersablaze
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I believe the solution offered by another poster of dueling a mara frequently may assist you in countering the abilities they possess, but I apologize that I cannot be more helpful to you since you have provided no descriptions and I am working from guesswork. I also can only provide solid counters for sorc/sage since that is my main (no mara bluster here) and I only have a level 38 marauder. If you would like some advice, I'm sure we'd be happy to assist if you provided your current class and strategy with what is giving you the most trouble at this time. I am pretty familiar with the mechanics of most classes, sin/shadow being my weakest area but also one that doesn't have much trouble with maras right now.

 

Ok let's see a video of you rolling maras for fun or your simply lying. I believe your main is a mara or you wouldn't be getting involved. So please stop spreading your cheeks and telling us its ice cream.

Edited by BoDiE
Missed something
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Ok let's see a video of you rolling maras for fun or your simply lying. I believe your main is a mara or you wouldn't be getting involved. So please stop spreading your cheeks and telling us its ice cream.

 

I have never claimed to "roll maras for fun". Simply that they can be countered. My purpose in any warzone on my sorc is to keep my team alive. I cannot allow one person who is attacking me to stop me from doing that and so I have found ways to kite them and continue aiding my team. In the event that I end up in a truly unavoidable 1v1 situation, I can drag the fight out until I have help and understand that I am not supposed to be able to kill DPS specs as a healer. If I'm not defending a point, then I'll escape. If they are trying to lock me down, I drag them to other players to help me out. It's not hard to keep them more than 4 meters away.

 

If I'm stuck in a 1v1, I'll slow them at distance. I'll cast lightning strike until they start getting close and then I'll get on the move with my instant abilities like affliction and shock. If they open in stealth to close the gap, I'll throw lightning storm around me to get some damage on their way in. If they leap, then force speed away and slow them like my original plan or possibly let them take out my bubble for the stun (which truly is ridiculous, but that's a tangent). Once my slow wears off and they've caught up, it depends on spec. I'll cleanse after gore and overload saber if they're anni, but otherwise just keep heals on myself or use my cleanse to clear their slow. I'll keep them slowed during CoP and stay as far away as possible, but only heal with no attacks so that the duration only lasts 6 seconds. I try to keep my KB until my health is lower so that I can root them for 5 seconds and heal up during that time, and if I'm really low I will use whirlwind while they are too far away to interrupt me in the root. I generally don't worry about saving my stun for UR as the chances of me taking their health down enough to reach that point is low unless they are undergeared. It's usually better to use stun early if I'm getting low on life to drag the fight out longer. I keep my force speed for ravage unless they leap to me at the start in case I need to break a root from carnage.

 

Since you have offered me nothing to show that you understand anything related to marauders at this point, I do not intend on responding to your future posts unless your attitude changes. I have seen your baseline nerf mara posts in many threads at this point and don't feel that anything I say will change your stance or cause you to offer anything constructive to the community. So know that when you post your next 1 sentence comment in response, I do not intend to answer.

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A veteran PVP player would understand that PVP environment is very volatile. Sorry, but "use your stun" looks great on paper, but just isn't practical. What if your stun is down from having used it on someone else? What if you are stunned yourself by someone else? What is he has full resolve? Once again, this is 8v8 not 1v1 and anyone who would even consider trading UR/GBTF for a stun lacks fundamental understanding of the PVP environment.

 

A good marauder will learn how to take advantace of the situation and use his abilities (including Undying Rage) to their fullest potential.

 

1. I never said I would trade UR for a stun cuz I wouldn't uts a very useful tool that when used right can be a gamechanger. If used at the wrong moment leaves you without a very good defensive cooldown and extremely vulnerable.

 

2. the resolve issue is completely separate. It is not the marauders fault that ppl do not use there stuns in a tactically sound way. If everyone were to use the in a tactically sound manner I guarantee you I would never get a kill while UR is up.

 

3.Do not use your stun to shutdown my rotation that is a waste use your interrupt thats what its for. For example a carnage spec mara you should use interrupt when you see them using ravage cuz that is the bulk of a carnage spec maras damage.

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Ok let's see a video of you rolling maras for fun or your simply lying. I believe your main is a mara or you wouldn't be getting involved. So please stop spreading your cheeks and telling us its ice cream.

 

I rolled a Marauder before it was cool. :cool: And yes, I did it for fun. And no, it's not my main at the moment.

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1. I never said I would trade UR for a stun cuz I wouldn't uts a very useful tool that when used right can be a gamechanger. If used at the wrong moment leaves you without a very good defensive cooldown and extremely vulnerable.

 

2. the resolve issue is completely separate. It is not the marauders fault that ppl do not use there stuns in a tactically sound way. If everyone were to use the in a tactically sound manner I guarantee you I would never get a kill while UR is up.

 

3.Do not use your stun to shutdown my rotation that is a waste use your interrupt thats what its for. For example a carnage spec mara you should use interrupt when you see them using ravage cuz that is the bulk of a carnage spec maras damage.

 

Ok besides your bad grammar and straight up lies, you now have lost all credibility from that last statement. Don't stun ravage use interrupt??? HOKAY GUY :)

 

...Please do not post in my thread again. Kthnx

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Ok besides your bad grammar and straight up lies, you now have lost all credibility from that last statement. Don't stun ravage use interrupt??? HOKAY GUY :)

 

...Please do not post in my thread again. Kthnx

 

I swore i never would post here again, but... wow that guy is clueless. Yes lets all interrupt ravage!!

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