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No More Disney Star Wars References in this EU Game


Tofu_Shark

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Nods? Such an insult to EU fans to tease them with the possibility Revan exists in the Disney Universe. Even if he does, he won't be the same Revan from KotOR nor vanilla SWTOR. (I know his depiction in SoR is divisive.)

Yes nods, hinting at characters from the EU, reintroducing certain places and characters back into canon. I think it's great that they're adding elements from the EU into canon.

Disney hates the EU, yet they constantly twist things from it into their own image. It doesn't make any sense. If they hate it that much, why don't they just come up with their own universe? (A lot harder than it looks, doesn't it?) Let's see if they can do it better. (They've already proven they can't.)

They don't hate the EU, otherwise they wouldn't bring back elements from the EU. They just wanted to not be beholden to it when continuing the story. I think you are projecting your own hatred of the direction that Star Wars has taken onto Disney. They bring in things from the EU because they like them, and try to fit them into the new canon and lore.

Edited by AdjeYo
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[quote=TurkeyFett;9857535

Romantic interests:

Also why is every romantic interest since SoR bisexual? Every single one. All of a sudden, we go from everyone is straight to everyone is bisexual? No one is straight anymore? I'm not hating on anyone bi or gay (to each their own - I just personally don't want to see it), but this decision boggles my mind. Again, Bioware appeasing to the <1%. This didn't bother me as I could choose not to flirt with NPC's of the same sex, to avoid it myself. But now we have the Task at Hand quest on the Republic side, where giving medical supplies to a refugee makes him talk about his husband. Gee Bioware, thanks for shoving it down my throat! Now for any alts on the Republic side, I have to be a jerk & skip giving out the medical supplies to avoid that. Didn't Bioware learn anything from others (people hated Rose from episode 8/9, hated pansexual Lando from Solo, hated the Last of Us 2 more recently, etc.)? This isn't the star wars that we all grew up with. Most people don't want that shoved down their throats.

 

Summary:

Oh spare me the BS please why every romance being bisexual is an issue? Its a way to make up for the vanilla game having literally no LGBTQ+ romances at all. And you're bothered by a guy just mentioning his husband? That's not shaving anything down your throat, gay married men exist. Bioware has always been progressive so you can take your homophobic BS elsewhere if that's what bothers you.

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Please stay on topic.

 

This thread is not about potentially GLBTQIA+ characters in the game. This thread is about requesting Disney references being snuck into SWTOR, which is set in the Expanded Universe, to which Disney is an alternate dimension, cease being put into the game. His argument has already been refuted, and I don't want this thread conflated with such backwards thinking.

Edited by Tofu_Shark
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As far as I'm concerned, Star Wars fans destroyed "artistic integrity" after Episode 1 was released.

 

There would have been no better moment than Jar-Jar taking a big swig of some cantina swill and finally showing us some drunken boxing, as far as I'm concerned! Star Wars fans didn't respect a character because they didn't understand him, didn't like his accent, whatever. But. what's done is done. You are now living in the aftermath of that attack on the artistry, so honestly, how important is this "artistic integrity" to Star Wars fans in the aggregate?.

 

Meesa thinkin' yousa not deservin' any such thing!

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I disagree.

 

Did you not notice how easily Jar Jar was minimized in AotC and much of the EU afterwards? Jar Jar is a single character. Disney has created entire stories that are garbage and garbage elements: core lore, characters, planets, technology, ships, creatures, weapons, etc.

 

What a single character like Jar Jar did is a drop in the bucket compared to the damage Disney has done to the world of Star Wars.

 

Instead of you paying for Disney's lack of vision, we do. You deserve nothing.

 

Really, that's an insult to garbage, but this post would probably get deleted for other words.

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Thank you for the pointless and irrelevant links.

 

They say nothing about the origins of the tea or the trade routes that existed with planet Gatalenta. Yes, it may have been a favorite of Leia, but that in no way precludes it from being a favorite of someone else. The only way your argument makes sense is if Leia (or someone else) miraculously invented / discovered the tea within the time parameters of the book Bloodline. If you are actually making that argument, you're a blithering idiot absent some exposition within the book.

 

Your argument literally (yes, I know what that word means) makes no sense. You might as well say that the first time people ate nerf burgers in the EU meant that people never dined on them before.

 

Dasty

Edited by Jdast
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Thank you for the pointless and irrelevant links.

 

They say nothing about the origins of the tea or the trade routes that existed with planet Gatalenta. Yes, it may have been a favorite of Leia, but that in no way precludes it from being a favorite of someone else. The only way your argument makes sense is if Leia (or someone else) miraculously invented / discovered the tea within the time parameters of the book Bloodline. If you are actually making that argument, you're a blithering idiot absent some exposition within the book.

 

Your argument literally (yes, I know what that word means) makes no sense. You might as well say that the first time people ate nerf burgers in the EU meant that people never dined on them before.

 

Dasty

 

If you can't be bothered to read the entire thing or click on the links under appearances I can't help you.

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If you can't be bothered to read the entire thing or click on the links under appearances I can't help you.

 

I read both links and I assure you, my reading comprehension capabilities are top notch.

 

Having read those links I gleaned that both Han Solo and Leia enjoyed the taste of the tea.

 

I enjoy Chopin Vodka martinis. I'm also not the first to drink one. I doubt I will be the last.

 

Nice try.

 

Dasty

Edited by Jdast
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Oh spare me the BS please why every romance being bisexual is an issue? Its a way to make up for the vanilla game having literally no LGBTQ+ romances at all. And you're bothered by a guy just mentioning his husband? That's not shaving anything down your throat, gay married men exist. Bioware has always been progressive so you can take your homophobic BS elsewhere if that's what bothers you.

 

I want to like this post so much. I was about to respond to that person, but you said it perfectly.

Edited by Fylimar
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Again, please Please stay on topic.

 

If FlameYOL wants to argue about that, they're not going to hijack this thread to do it. They can create their own thread, and we can argue it there. They unfortunately had to taint their opinion on the thread's topic by inserting this into their response.

 

 

 

I read both links and I assure you, my reading comprehension capabilities are top notch.

 

Having read those links I gleaned that both Han Solo and Leia enjoyed the taste of the tea.

 

I enjoy Chopin Vodka martinis. I'm also not the first to drink one. I doubt I will be the last.

 

Nice try.

 

Dasty

You're confusing real life with fiction. Also, I noticed how you conveniently overlooked my refutation. Review my rebuttal if you need to.

 

If you want to be a wiseass and go the fiction route, you are implying that the Expanded Universe and Disney Universe are one in the same. They are not. They are different dimensions. They have different rules, laws, and physics from one another. They have some similarities in history but also some very stark differences, some very drastic differences in the same events that transpired, or they have events they don't share that occurred in each universe. They have some similarities and very big differences in places, people, and things that existed or never existed in both, one, or the other.

 

They are similar yet very different. They are certainly not the same galaxy. That's how alternate dimensions work.

Edited by Tofu_Shark
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They have different rules, laws, and physics from one another.

Excuse me. I need to go outside for a while and laugh.

 

...

 

...

 

OK. I'm back. Everyone in northern France(1) knows I found something amusing, but whatever. I feel weak.

 

Are you *seriously* trying to justify *anything* concerning any version of Star Wars on the basis of physics?

 

(1) Probably also in the western part of the neighbouring country called [REDACTED(2)] as well, since the border is only a few dozen kilometres away.

 

(2) I am reliably informed that its name is a very rude word on the galactic stage, so I'll spare your blushes.

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Again, please Please stay on topic.

 

They are different dimensions. They have different rules, laws, and physics from one another. They have some similarities in history but also some very stark differences, some very drastic differences in the same events that transpired, or they have events they don't share that occurred in each universe. They have some similarities and very big differences in places, people, and things that existed or never existed in both, one, or the other.

 

They are similar yet very different. They are certainly not the same galaxy. That's how alternate dimensions work.

 

And who appointed you ultimate arbiter of what similarities are okay vs. not okay?

 

So far the sole criterion appears to be first reference or appearance of an item or style, which is absurd. If there is a detailed explanation about its origins / discovery then you would have a stronger argument. Right now it seems pretty ad hoc beyond first mention which only reveals your disdain for all things Disney.

 

Dasty

 

P.S. And what Cynical Steve said, though I'm currently in Western USA not France.

Edited by Jdast
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And who appointed you teamaster of the galaxy?

 

What exactly do you mean by a detailed explanation? You mean for the existence of the tea within Disney's Universe or the Expanded Universe?

 

So far, your sole argument is, "it seems this guy doesn't like Disney, let's counter him for ***** and giggles." Do you even care about the subject or are you just trolling?

 

Too bad, that's how fiction works. It doesn't have to obey the rules of reality. Though Star Wars is a very unique case of having two universes (Yes, I probably used dimensions in the wrong context. They are universes.) being active at the same time, Disney's actions make it seem they are second-guessing their actions of completely erasing the EU, which would be great, if they didn't start mucking around with established EU properties that they have no business putting their four-fingered, white gloves on.

Edited by Tofu_Shark
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Oh, but it was okay when George Lucas changed EU content (not properties) willy-nilly simply because it suited him? Or how about that time when the official stance was that there were no LGBTQ people in Star Wars, but then Disney went and canonized the obvious reality that there were (prior to that there was not a single LGBTQ reference in G canon, all other references were minor and relegated to secondary characters in lower levels of canon that could, at any point, be wiped out at the whim of Lord G, and some that were intended to be included but where vetoed). Yes, your whole thread comes off as an I hate it because it's Disney rant.

 

Also, the T word is verboten on these forums and can get you a slap on the wrist.

Edited by ceryxp
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Thanks OP for voicing your opinion, as I suspect this line of thought is the silent majority (despite the few haters who posted here disagreeing with you).

 

Nah, your "majority" is silent because it doesn't exist. The overwhelming amount of opposing voices in this thread is an example of this. Because surely if the majority of the game thought the same way as you, they would have come to your aid? Alas, no "silent majority" exists to support you.

 

Oh spare me the BS please why every romance being bisexual is an issue? Its a way to make up for the vanilla game having literally no LGBTQ+ romances at all. And you're bothered by a guy just mentioning his husband? That's not shaving anything down your throat, gay married men exist. Bioware has always been progressive so you can take your homophobic BS elsewhere if that's what bothers you.

 

I will praise and revere this post day and night.

 

The Star Wars universe simply doesn't have the messed up prejudices regarding homosexuality that our real world has. Homosexuality has never been stigmatised in the Star Wars universe nor has it ever been seen as an aberration. It's simply a part of the immense diversity of the universe. Star Wars treats the subject of different sexual orientations exactly the way it should be treated: normal. In fact, the real world can learn from the Star Wars universe on this topic on how to treat different sexual orientations. It's simply not an issue within the Star Wars universe and it shouldn't be in ours either.

Edited by Ylliarus
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Nah, your "majority" is silent because it doesn't exist. The overwhelming amount of opposing voices in this thread is an example of this. Because surely if the majority of the game thought the same way as you, they would have come to your aid? Alas, no "silent majority" exists to support you.

 

 

 

I will praise and revere this post day and night.

 

The Star Wars universe simply doesn't have the messed up prejudices regarding homosexuality that our real world has. Homosexuality has never been stigmatised in the Star Wars universe nor has it ever been seen as an aberration. It's simply a part of the immense diversity of the universe. Star Wars treats the subject of different sexual orientations exactly the way it should be treated: normal. In fact, the real world can learn from the Star Wars universe on this topic on how to treat different sexual orientations. It's simply not an issue within the Star Wars universe and it shouldn't be in ours either.

 

Just because anti-"Disney Star Wars" people aren't here on this forum doesn't mean they don't exist. I've seen plenty of people calling out Disney's BS in plenty of other places, mainly in the comments section of certain YouTube videos. I've also talked with plenty of "Disney Star Wars" fans and they all confessed to know nothing of the EU. Meaning many Disney supporters haven't been exposed to what Star Wars really is, and even many of them agree that the newest movie was ridiculous.

 

However, I do agree that it's good that Star Wars finally has gay people. As someone who's ever only had one real friend, who happens to be a trans person, I appreciate it. We are all human.

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There are also stories of people that were kids when Force Awakens came out, are now teenagers, and now hate the sequels. Of course, no one has quantified this demographic, so it's difficult to say how much turnaround there has been amongst the fans. I would find it hard to believe this game doesn't have a substantial playerbase that are EU fans and are appalled by how Disney has handled Star Wars. The forums self-select for a very specific demographic though.

 

 

Nah, your "majority" is silent because it doesn't exist. The overwhelming amount of opposing voices in this thread is an example of this. Because surely if the majority of the game thought the same way as you, they would have come to your aid? Alas, no "silent majority" exists to support you.

 

 

 

I will praise and revere this post day and night.

 

The Star Wars universe simply doesn't have the messed up prejudices regarding homosexuality that our real world has. Homosexuality has never been stigmatised in the Star Wars universe nor has it ever been seen as an aberration. It's simply a part of the immense diversity of the universe. Star Wars treats the subject of different sexual orientations exactly the way it should be treated: normal. In fact, the real world can learn from the Star Wars universe on this topic on how to treat different sexual orientations. It's simply not an issue within the Star Wars universe and it shouldn't be in ours either.

Perhaps there is still hope. I actually agree that GLBTQIA+ representation is lacking in the galaxy. But please stay on topic. We can discuss this in another thread if you want.

 

If there were hundreds of posts by unique members, the "overwhelming claim" would be a different story. The example of the response to this thread means nothing about how the entire playerbase feels about this. You know why? Because of a little something known as "self-selection bias:" The forums self-select for certain types of players, as well as the sub-fora. This is obvious because of how many of the forum regulars I have noticed that posted in this thread...and I've seen how they treat people with ideas they do not like: They put them down and invalidate people with mostly namecalling, ad hominem attacks, and occasionally rise to using slippery slope fallacies. Every once in a while, one will actually attempt debate. They use mob rule and frequent use of reports to get posts removed as well as entire threads removed or moved to different forums, pruned off, not having a chance to garner the same number of views as if they were on the more popular and frequented fora, and die in isolation.

 

Oh, but it was okay when George Lucas changed EU content (not properties) willy-nilly simply because it suited him? Or how about that time when the official stance was that there were no LGBTQ people in Star Wars, but then Disney went and canonized the obvious reality that there were (prior to that there was not a single LGBTQ reference in G canon, all other references were minor and relegated to secondary characters in lower levels of canon that could, at any point, be wiped out at the whim of Lord G, and some that were intended to be included but where vetoed). Yes, your whole thread comes off as an I hate it because it's Disney rant.

 

Also, the T word is verboten on these forums and can get you a slap on the wrist.

As well as you, stay on topic.

 

T-word? What are you talking about? Teamaster?

 

What EU content are you referring to that George changed? You're going to have to be more specific than that. And George is the creator of Star Wars, so he enjoys a high level of leeway and forgiveness. Changes in the EU are also rarely just erased. They are often retconned out.

 

But I am actually not entirely in disagreement with this post.

 

Yes, Star Wars has been greatly lacking in representation of racial minorities and GLBTQIA+ orientations. Science-fiction has always been more progressive in representation than other genres, and I think it's definitely something that would've advanced had the

gotten produced (which would've been orders of magnitude better than The Mandalorian) as well as a sequel trilogy by George. We have seen times change with some social progress made.

 

I would still take what he is capable of over Disney, because the presence of characters played by minorities doesn't mean a damn thing if they're not memorable or likable. The quality of minority representation is extremely important when the pond for them has been so small for so long. It takes a lot of quality roles to dilute the tens of decades of pollution in it.

 

Now then, stay on topic. You want to discuss this, we can create another thread for that.

 

George would've been smart enough to not alienate the EU fans as well as make progress in media representation of minorities, because he knows EU fans were the ones that kept interest in Star Wars going between movies.

Edited by Tofu_Shark
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As well as you, stay on topic.

 

Since I was replying directly to something you said it can hardly be said that I was off topic. But since you've decided that this is your own personal thread I will refrain for commenting again.

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That was from several posts ago. You need to make that clear by using a quote. I responded to the subject and then moved on. I didn't let it become the new focus. The OP has the responsibility of keeping the thread on topic.

 

I won't let this thread get derailed because someone tried to co-opt this thread and conflate it with an unrelated topic.

Edited by Tofu_Shark
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Since I was replying directly to something you said it can hardly be said that I was off topic. But since you've decided that this is your own personal thread I will refrain for commenting again.

 

Yeah, it's just the OP's personal rant corner, nothing more. I guess it gives them some sort of peace of mind? Who knows. Ignoring them and this thread is probably the best course of action and what most of the people and devs do anyway. So, I'll follow in your footsteps :)

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What EU content are you referring to that George changed? You're going to have to be more specific than that.

 

He changed who trained obi wan for a start, it was originally yoda. He also changed Darth from his name to his title . No idea if it counts as EU, but they are two changes that pop to mind. A reference to tea, is quite mild compared to that.

 

And George is the creator of Star Wars, so he enjoys a high level of leeway and forgiveness.

And Disney are the new owners, who have as much right to change what they like.

 

There's nothing wrong with sticking references in, it's supposed to be a commnity, this 'them & us' crap has ruined enough things already, without letting it fester here

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Personally I don't mind cartel market items inspired on Disney's Star Wars. Small references are fine as well, although if they're going to reference something, I'd rather it were from the EU. I don't follow most of the disney canon anyway (I still have too much EU stuff left to read), so I don't think I would get the references.

 

Story elements, new planets, history and visual aspects of those planets, I really hope those keep following the EU continuity. I was already quite disappointed that Onderon is based on the clone wars version instead of the one from Tales of the Jedi. But so far I think they are doing it pretty well anyway, using some of the existent stuff to keep it grounded on the EU, and expanding it even more with new locations and stories, like Mek-Sha.

 

I kind of feel like the OP (although not as passionately), that this game is the last bit of EU that is being written, and I'd like it to stay that way. There's already tons of Disney canon being created for those who enjoy it. There's no need for it to take over the last piece of EU.

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He changed who trained obi wan for a start, it was originally yoda. He also changed Darth from his name to his title . No idea if it counts as EU, but they are two changes that pop to mind. A reference to tea, is quite mild compared to that.

 

 

And Disney are the new owners, who have as much right to change what they like.

 

There's nothing wrong with sticking references in, it's supposed to be a commnity, this 'them & us' crap has ruined enough things already, without letting it fester here

The EU is not Disney's universe. They played no role in creating it, they have no right to mess with it. George could change whatever he wanted, as he is the creator, and there is a general understanding from the fans about that. The former came a long time ago, before the universe was well-established. His changes had to be more calculated later on as the universe was more established.

 

Yoda being Obi-Wan's master was retconned as Yoda being involved with teaching all Jedi at some point in their training. OK, that's believable. Darth was just Obi-Wan saying that his padawan and brother, Anakin, was no more during their on the Death Star. There was no trace of him left in his mind.

 

In Kong: Skull Island, the director originally wanted a giant ape to emerge and for the helicopters to unleash their missiles on it and blow it up, only to have another ape emerge from the smoke right after that would be Kong. They said this was paying homage to the original Kong and showing that this King Kong was even bigger and badder than the original. The studio flat-out said no. And it's good they did, as that was ******** on what had came before it. They only realized this after the studio said no.

 

This is what Disney is doing, but instead of it being a single scene being the gesture that they could easily cut out in which its absence affects nothing, it's a whole damn universe. There's no respect for the creator, George Lucas; no respect for what came before it, no respect for anyone that contributed to the Expanded Universe and how the it expanded the universe of Star Wars and gave it so many of the elements, characters, and core lore we love and enjoy, and no respect for the fans that supported the building of that universe and kept it going during its lulls between the OT and PT and after the PT.

 

So no, not the same. Not at all the same. Not even on the same planet.

Edited by Tofu_Shark
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The EU is not Disney's universe.

 

Have they specifically turned around and said there is a multi verse? Wether you like it or not, they are the new owners and create what they like, add what they like. GL sold the rights, he took the money and ran.

Edited by DarkTergon
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That does not excuse the amount of disrepect they have shown for everything that came before them and the fans of that universe. It shows they do not appreciate how they got to the position that allowed them to put themselves in the place they are currently in.

 

Off-topic, but I wouldn't be surprised if they did a multiverse eventually. There is a rumor there is an internal struggle with where to take the Disney Universe now because of the sequel trilogy backlash and the lauding of The Mandalorian. And that is how I justified the existence of both universes, that Disney is just some twisted, parallel universe. Which would've been fine if they left the EU alone...but now they've gone and messed with it.

 

Personally I don't mind cartel market items inspired on Disney's Star Wars. Small references are fine as well, although if they're going to reference something, I'd rather it were from the EU. I don't follow most of the disney canon anyway (I still have too much EU stuff left to read), so I don't think I would get the references.

 

Story elements, new planets, history and visual aspects of those planets, I really hope those keep following the EU continuity. I was already quite disappointed that Onderon is based on the clone wars version instead of the one from Tales of the Jedi. But so far I think they are doing it pretty well anyway, using some of the existent stuff to keep it grounded on the EU, and expanding it even more with new locations and stories, like Mek-Sha.

 

I kind of feel like the OP (although not as passionately), that this game is the last bit of EU that is being written, and I'd like it to stay that way. There's already tons of Disney canon being created for those who enjoy it. There's no need for it to take over the last piece of EU.

Thank you understanding my points. I don't follow Disney either, but I know people that do that have pointed them out to me. They don't agree with the inserted references either, because they understand Star Wars would not be the juggernaut it became without the EU. They are far more respectful because they understand how the fans' response reflects on them, how Disney's actions reflect on itself, and how these actions alienate and anger EU fans.

Edited by Tofu_Shark
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