You're kidding right? The fights are at the capital ships now.

I don't know what server you're playing on...

I have to echo this. It winds up being the organized team spawncamps the middle spawn point and the pug or non voice com team gets divided

If you get spawncamped, cap ship turrets aren't gonna save you. Spawn camping happened before this patch. On JC I have yet to see spawn camping post patch. You can't fix bads with game mechanics, sad to say, so if cap ships were your only solace, the pilots on your server must be godawful.

When one side has the advantage, it tends to get more lopsided because pilots on the other side stop playing or stop queueing as much. So when you have a good pilot or two you can still get demolished because you don't have that solid middle class of pilots to fill the ranks with competent fliers.

What the turrets did is to give the newer players a feeling like they had a refuge where they could recover and not be overwhelmed/farmed so easily, and get their bearings to counterattack.

Every single person who whines about gunships and bombers is someone who plays nothing but scout because it's the easiest ship to get kills with but has little to no defense against these craft, so they do nothing but cry in every thread.

 

I'm a mediocre pilot with a non-mastered Pike and I take on 2 gunship teams on a regular basis, easily and you're telling me 4 can't do anything? Uhuh, yeah, how bout them facts? By the way, these same people would demolish you just as easily 15k away so being at your spawn is completely and utterly irrelevant. Your team obviously didn't pose any challenge at all or you wouldn't be at your spawn so tell me, how is it different from getting demolished in the middle? It isn't.

 

The only difference since patch is that you can no longer get kills the only way you previously could, by boosting to the cap ship and hope it kills something. Must be so tragic when you have to actually learn how to fight.

Where did the bad scout touch you in 2.5?

where did the bad scout touch you in 2.5?

lmfao!!!

What the turrets did is to give the newer players a feeling like they had a refuge where they could recover and not be overwhelmed/farmed so easily, and get their bearings to counterattack.

Yeah but then the experienced gunship pilots were using this to their advantage.

Complain about bombers protecting a mass of gunships now? Same thing except that the opposing players have to coordinate this strategy as opposed to the NPC gunners doing it for you.

Yeah but then the experienced gunship pilots were using this to their advantage.

 

Complain about bombers protecting a mass of gunships now? Same thing except that the opposing players have to coordinate this strategy as opposed to the NPC gunners doing it for you.

The simplest way to deal with gunships sitting on capital ships is not to go to them.

The simplest way to deal with gunships sitting on capital ships is not to go to them.

You are no longer contributing.

You are no longer contributing.

At least that cuts both ways. But I'd say that it has to go as well. I actually got that in the middle of a dogfight today.

The simplest way to deal with gunships sitting on capital ships is not to go to them.

Not the point... the fact that they could (and often did) retreat to safety was what forced the Devs to turn the guns off...

Not the point... the fact that they could (and often did) retreat to safety was what forced the Devs to turn the guns off...

Nah, if that were the case they'd have turned them off in Domination too. By not doing that, the devs are implicitly approving gunships abandoning any actual combat to let the NPCs get any kills they can't.

The problem was that you could significantly advance your team's position while being completely safe from any counterattacks besides other gunships. This was post-2.6, too, so you couldn't even dfield in for a kill and barrel roll out.

The fact that 90% of pugs would just slam their faces against the gunships and turrets didn't help matters.

That is 20x the difference and the reason they did not take them out of domination matches.

Right, that's what I said. But what you said -- and maybe I missed a part where you clarified -- that they removed gunships because they were running back to capital ships. Well, just flat running back to a capital ship is still a thing in Domination, and has always been. So, obviously, the mere fact that gunships can sit within capital ship turrets isn't considered a problem. They only did something about it when it provided a significant score advantage on top of all the other cheese.

When one side has the advantage, it tends to get more lopsided because pilots on the other side stop playing or stop queueing as much. So when you have a good pilot or two you can still get demolished because you don't have that solid middle class of pilots to fill the ranks with competent fliers.

 

What the turrets did is to give the newer players a feeling like they had a refuge where they could recover and not be overwhelmed/farmed so easily, and get their bearings to counterattack.

And as long as your whole team isn't new players and the whole other team isn't pros, TDM doesn't get so unbalanced that you die as you spawn. Not that I've seen. I've seen people try, and fail, but never succeed. Most new players don't even know there ARE cap ships, or that the turrets do anything. I didn't until I got killed by one while chasing a gunship in TDM... who used it to hide from me every time I got close. It was never "solace" for me until I unlocked my own gunship and did the same thing. That should tell you something. It was recent enough that I still remember it well.

It only takes one good player to break a spawn camp - pressure people into running or chasing, and they scatter. If no good pilots are on your team, cap ship turrets won't change a thing, it just moves the camp back a few km. in fact, it encourages the campers to use gunships, which new players have a VERY hard time against. Without cap ship turrets, most people fly strikes and scouts, which can't cover a large area all at once.

And as long as your whole team isn't new players and the whole other team isn't pros, TDM doesn't get so unbalanced that you die as you spawn. Not that I've seen. I've seen people try, and fail, but never succeed. Most new players don't even know there ARE cap ships, or that the turrets do anything. I didn't until I got killed by one while chasing a gunship in TDM... who used it to hide from me every time I got close. It was never "solace" for me until I unlocked my own gunship and did the same thing. That should tell you something. It was recent enough that I still remember it well.

 

It only takes one good player to break a spawn camp - pressure people into running or chasing, and they scatter. If no good pilots are on your team, cap ship turrets won't change a thing, it just moves the camp back a few km. in fact, it encourages the campers to use gunships, which new players have a VERY hard time against. Without cap ship turrets, most people fly strikes and scouts, which can't cover a large area all at once.

I'm going to start advertising my twitch when I play, because I have, on several occassions, done this. Couple this with a DO boost, and it's guaranteed

Except when you get DO and I spend the entire 30 seconds forcing you to run away

LMAO way to spoil my fun!!!

And as long as your whole team isn't new players and the whole other team isn't pros, TDM doesn't get so unbalanced that you die as you spawn. Not that I've seen. I've seen people try, and fail, but never succeed. Most new players don't even know there ARE cap ships, or that the turrets do anything. I didn't until I got killed by one while chasing a gunship in TDM... who used it to hide from me every time I got close. It was never "solace" for me until I unlocked my own gunship and did the same thing. That should tell you something. It was recent enough that I still remember it well.

 

It only takes one good player to break a spawn camp - pressure people into running or chasing, and they scatter. If no good pilots are on your team, cap ship turrets won't change a thing, it just moves the camp back a few km. in fact, it encourages the campers to use gunships, which new players have a VERY hard time against. Without cap ship turrets, most people fly strikes and scouts, which can't cover a large area all at once.

I've seen it several times now. Mostly when I get subbed into a match and I see red all over my screen and my side is losing 16-1. I'm usually good enough and hitting quick and/or evading that I can help start the pushback, but if I or another good player hadn't been subbed in, it could have been a spawn-camping wipeout.

It's worse because there seems to be so many more pre-mades on each side now, and they don't seem to face each other that often. So if you're a newer or more casual player you've got a good chace to get completely rolled.

In most unbalanced matches I have been in the winning side doesn't actively try to spawn camp because it's not necessary. They sit back with their mines and gunships and grabbing power-ups and destroy the enemies as they come into range a few at a time while they themselves get to sit in a clump of 6-10. The problem has been, is, and will continue to be the matchmaking.

And as long as your whole team isn't new players and the whole other team isn't pros, TDM doesn't get so unbalanced that you die as you spawn.

I don't know what server you play on but that is exactly the situation on mine 90% of the time. You are talking teams with overwhelmingly new players who are getting farmed by the opposing side.

It only takes one good player to break a spawn camp - pressure people into running or chasing, and they scatter.

And that's where your argument just falls apart. 1 good player might be able to break up the spawncamp of lousy players but 3 good players against 1 = quick win for the 3.

And that's where your argument just falls apart. 1 good player might be able to break up the spawncamp of lousy players but 3 good players against 1 = quick win for the 3.

Not if you know how to dogfight in a scout. You can drag out an engagement for several minutes without dying even if all pilots are equally skilled because of how nimble scouts are. If they chase, your spawn is clear. If they don't, they'll pay for it in blood when you turn back around and strafe their bomber.

Not if you know how to dogfight in a scout. You can drag out an engagement for several minutes without dying even if all pilots are equally skilled because of how nimble scouts are. If they chase, your spawn is clear. If they don't, they'll pay for it in blood when you turn back around and strafe their bomber.

Its a bad spawncamp then. The mines/drones or gunships will take you down in one with any coordination.

Since cap ships lost their guns, Ive seen far more cases of spawn camping than I ever saw of the " get slight lead and hide by cap ships" strategy. Could just be luck of the draw or the servers I play on (shrug). However, what I am seeing now is an increase in players who, when on the wrong side of a face stomp, will intentionally self destruct as fast as possible and as many times as possible. Seems the motive behind this is to end match as soon as possible while denying the other team extra kills. I was also in a match where the other team was losing badly and all but one or two of them simply quit re spawning. That sucked. Hard to earn req. or "contribute" when there's nothing to shoot at.

Of course I can call these behaviors poor sportsmanship and get angry about them, but like everyone else who's played GSF for any amount of time, I've been on the receiving end of more than a few face stomps as well. And I understand that it isn't fun, nor do I see much opportunity to "learn to play" when your spawning into instant never ending missile locks, mines, drones, GS fire, etc. (spawn ding ding ding boom dead. spawn ding ding ding boom dead). And yes I know enough to change spawn points, but that doesn't always help if the other team is serious about their camping and puts a bomber or two on each cap ship. Especially if those bombers have any kind of support from GS, scout, etc. I also know that not all spawn camping is intentional or malicious. More than once Ive gotten caught up in the heat of the moment chasing another ship, lost track of where I was, other ship dies, I hit tab looking for next target, chase them, they die, I hit tab...WTH? where'd their cap ship come from??? Same thing used to get me blown into little itty bitty pieces when cap ships had guns. I didn't like getting one shotted by turrets, but figured it was my fault for being dumb enough to get too close in the first place.

Don't like it, but expect I'll see more and more of these "unsportsmanlike behaviors" until something is done to deter/reduce the amount of spawn camping. There's no shortage of good suggestions on the forums, but until they're implemented (shrug).

Going to have to say not much of a improvement. Never seen people running back to the ship in TDM matchs to maintain a lead, but now the team that is dominate in pushing the opponent back to there capital ship is setting up killing fields that destroy opponents before they have a chance to even completely load after a re-spawn. Now your seeing bombers dropping there payloads on the three locations and gunships and strike fighters dropping there arsnels onto what ever managed to survive. All thats changed basically is insteead of those teams staying 15k out from capital ships allowing some ability for the team to push out to just into space to never leave.

That was exactly my point when I found out capitol ship turrets were being removed. Yes, they were protecting spawns and being used as a crutch for the less skilled players, but that's what I was afraid of. As soon as you spawn BOOM you're gone.

I think I've spawned in to a mine once since the change and so I switched spawns. Wasn't that hard. I love the gameplay now withot the turrets. Seems much more dynamic and less campy. Allowing gunships to run to the protection of AI turrets was infinitely more annoying than being harassed at your spawn. If you are so bad that you can't figure out how to build a fast evasive scout which can easily get away from the spawn you deserve to be clubbed like a baby seal.

Learning how to avoid taking damage is the first skill a pilot should learn. A scout with distortion field, barrel roll and booster recharge can lead several ships on a wild goose chase for half a match with only moderate piloting skills.