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Bioware, do you intend to revert TTK to pre 1.2, or is the current TTK intended?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Bioware, do you intend to revert TTK to pre 1.2, or is the current TTK intended?

CapuchinSeven's Avatar


CapuchinSeven
04.19.2012 , 05:08 AM | #101
Quote: Originally Posted by Kaarsa View Post
Reason of observed by some reduced TTK IS expertise, to be precise LACK of said stat on people dropping fast. Remodded BM gear - shorter TTK. Mix of PVP/PVE gear - shorter TTK. Old cent/champ - shorter TTK.

This is problem you see - lack of adjustment to new rules. In few weeks, when everyone and their mother will be in new BM/WH gear TTK will go back to old values.

Thing is, most thread in pvp forum are whine/QQ. Those perils of actual useful info are very difficult to find and most people seem to not care enough to search for them. Something is not working as it used to/user wants it to? Go to pvp forum to start qq/whine thread instead looking for reason why it is working now different than before and what should be done to taka advantage of it.
Junk. I'm in new Battlemaster.

Frankly, if the game stays like this I'll be gone, I already know which game will be getting my money from beta testing. Bioware just keep showing me that they will push something through and expect us to lump it.

I'm giving you a small window to either fix this or tell us what's happening and if its intended. I could be wrong but this stinks of Mythic. It's not even like I come out of this badly, our pre made still owns just even faster but I do not like the direction they have taken us given what they said.
I know chop-knees.

Kaarsa's Avatar


Kaarsa
04.19.2012 , 05:10 AM | #102
Quote: Originally Posted by me_unknown View Post
NO! i said it already and i say it again: i was before 1.2 very close to the euquip limit for expertise and i am it now too. i have nearly 1100 expertise! i do not have my gear remodded. how can it be due to expertise that I DIE nearly twice as fast when my opponents do not have more expertise than me?

the decreased TKK has NOTHING to do with the expertise change. though, of course for those people that are low on expertise it greatly contributes to this observation but this reduced TKK is still greratly observable for people with high amount of expertise!

edit: to point that out: i AM IN FULL BM GEAR, the NEW BM GEAR!
That is weird then, because I am in mix of recruit and BM and I do not experience shorter TTK. Maybe you play healer and since they turned fo your half-god mode you die faster?

Or maybe since you were full BM before 1.2 and you had big advantage over many other players who did not (either little pvp gear or mostly cent). They have now bought few BM pieces and recruit gear and can kill you faster?

Just guessing...
Official Dev info about resolve system: http://dulfy.net/2012/04/07/paxeast-q-a-day-2/
Quote: Originally Posted by Darth_Philar View Post
To be fair, about 98% of all PvP problems can be resolved by learning to correctly play the class you rolled.
The remaining 2% aren't going to be fixed by complaining on a forum...

SneiK's Avatar


SneiK
04.19.2012 , 05:11 AM | #103
Quote: Originally Posted by Samcuu View Post
blah blah blah ur statistics and fancy math don't prove anything. There is a statistic to prove a point for any argument. I will go off the eye test. The eye test tells me i magically lost 2k hp after 1.2. Now my attacks being a dps scoundrel got buffed, as did other classes that my friends play. And we are not talking 88 dmg difference. I'm talking about demolition round critting for over 5k now, whereas before it was critting for 3k at the most. Now my backblast does somewhere around 4k dmg when it crits, from about 2500 to 3k at the most before...btw that's not considering heals were nerfed....that's only 2 examples...it's a zerg fest let's call a spade a spade and stop being fan boys.
As a DPS Pyro, my crits have not grown one bit. The only difference is, that now you don't get that extra mitigation from expertise. Yes, we haven't considered the nerf to healing here, but that doesn't make it a zerg fest as you described as healers weren't gona outheal 3v1 pre 1.2 anyway.

I think overall you just need your teammates more which was intended for ranked warzones really (I think operative far outperforms the other two healers). Healers get the shortest straw queuing with pugs now.

SneiK's Avatar


SneiK
04.19.2012 , 05:16 AM | #104
Quote: Originally Posted by Kaarsa View Post
Reason of observed by some reduced TTK IS expertise, to be precise LACK of said stat on people dropping fast. Remodded BM gear - shorter TTK. Mix of PVP/PVE gear - shorter TTK. Old cent/champ - shorter TTK.

This is problem you see - lack of adjustment to new rules. In few weeks, when everyone and their mother will be in new BM/WH gear TTK will go back to old values.

Thing is, most thread in pvp forum are whine/QQ. Those perils of actual useful info are very difficult to find and most people seem to not care enough to search for them. Something is not working as it used to/user wants it to? Go to pvp forum to start qq/whine thread instead looking for reason why it is working now different than before and what should be done to taka advantage of it.
This. Let people gear up and get on equal expertise before making hasty decisions.

/Thread closed

CapuchinSeven's Avatar


CapuchinSeven
04.19.2012 , 05:19 AM | #105
Quote: Originally Posted by SneiK View Post
This. Let people gear up and get on equal expertise before making hasty decisions.

/Thread closed
I think people like you are kinda ignoring that we don't have cross servers and we're all pretty well aware of who we're fighting as well as many servers running constant cross faction games.

/Not even slightly closed.
I know chop-knees.

Butterstoo's Avatar


Butterstoo
04.19.2012 , 05:42 AM | #106
I like the shorter TTK, it does not feel like such a "nerd" fight anymore. "That cannot hurt me because I have a magic shell, or that did not hit me because I have super speed and sprinted away before it hit, etc." In the movies lightsabers cut off arms, legs, doors, robots, etc. they should hit like Nerfbats. I cannot stand it when people do not die. With 3 healers on a side it is hard to focus fire anyone. Maybe try running with another healer or two instead of trying to solo heal the entire team like you used to. BW should have done it over the course of two patches instead of one to give people time to adjust to the changes.

In Wow during BC with my BM hunter could drop people in 3 to 4 seconds if they stood in the open (5k+ dps burst for 15 seconds when most players had 10k-15k of health). In Wrath my mainly PVE geared rogue could drop people just as fast. Bubbles, iceblocks, blessing of protection, etc. not included. If I was getting hit on my rogue I was doing something wrong.

In Rift my melee Sabo (70+% dmg increase sabo/sin/nightblade hybrid) was nerfed 3 weeks after launch since if I crit (30% to 40% depended on buffs) I could kill someone from full health to dead in 1 attack, but that only after spending 7.5 seconds throwing BRIGHT GLOWING balls at someone, THAT COULD BE CLEANSED, and doing almost NO damage for the 7.5 seconds. Even though that was a squishy PVE raid dps spec people still QQ'ed.

Guess what also can be cleansed? The bleed dots from an Anni speced Mara are one. Kills their dps and ability to heal. Rarely do I ever see people ever use CLEANSE though, they would rather instead try to heal through it, or come here and QQ. I had one person try to tell me they do not have time because they are so busy healing... I even use it on my dps classes that have it.

Why do MMO players stand in the open most of the time? Hard for a warrior to charge you if you see him running at you and you walk around a corner losing them. Hard for the range to shot you if you walk around a corner. Don't stand in the open. If you stood in the open in real life YOU WOULD NOT EVEN GET A CHANCE TO MOVE OR REACT, YOU WOULD BE DEAD BEFORE YOU EVEN HEARD A SOUND. Bullets travel faster then the speed of sound and so do lasers. No cool downs to save you, no heal to bring you back from the brink of death, no magic bubble, NO NOTHING.

TTK in this game is fine. Get rid of companions in world PvP and these stupid heroic moments, like PVE was not easy enough already. I wonder which role wanted to have companions so they could level faster while leveling as the spec they wanted to. Sorry but if you want to level as healer expect it to take a little longer, or go respec. World PVP should not be different versus WZ or Arena PvP. Not only do I have to worry about my character, but I also have to pick the right companion and have it geared to stand a chance at world PvP. It also helps to have all the buffs like I do which is a little OP too.

Expertise is dumb, there should be ONE set of ultimate gear at any one point in time that you can mod as you see fit (min/max). Get it from either rated PVP or PVE. Make it harder to get gear so people do both just to get the gear faster. Hard part is trying to balance when PvP gets gear versus PvE due to rankings and the amount cleared in an OPs. Skill should matter more then gear in PvP.

I will have to check to make sure the Mythic guy/s are not involved in the next game I play. How many mmo's have to fail before they get a clue. No lfg to help the under populated republic side, no server pools for WZ (so you end up playing the same people repeatedly), legacy imbalance, and others, all HURT the community INSTEAD of building it like they think. No duel spec hurts the community instead of helping it, you have PvP'ers in PvP specs and gear trying to run hard modes/OPs, while you have PvE'ers in PvE specs and gear trying to do WZ...hardly ideal.

elmav's Avatar


elmav
04.19.2012 , 05:50 AM | #107
Just wanted to add my vote to this.. I've already unsubbed, but I'm fascinated to know if this change was planned/delibrerate (given it flies in the face of their 'we want fights to last longer' statements).

DarthPolarBear's Avatar


DarthPolarBear
04.19.2012 , 05:52 AM | #108
Quote: Originally Posted by elmav View Post
Just wanted to add my vote to this.. I've already unsubbed, but I'm fascinated to know if this change was planned/delibrerate (given it flies in the face of their 'we want fights to last longer' statements).
Ditto ^^
"Try not, Do or Do Not!, there is no try!"

Retro_Chrome's Avatar


Retro_Chrome
04.19.2012 , 06:21 AM | #109
i personally believe the problem we are seeing is a combination of a few things:

1. The wonderful implementation of Target of target

2. the nerfing of commando an sage heals. for some reason people thought healing was OP HINT: it wasnt

3. the 10% increase of all damage via expertise, yet the healing bonus remained the same

4. The buffs of the Knight ACs to increase damage. for some reason people felt Knights were underpowered. HINT: they werent

my suggestion to solve this problem with out completely removing the changes they did in 1.2:
increase the bonus healing from expertise from around 10% to 20% to put it on par with the increase of Damage, revert the healing nerfs slightly, while some healing was insane, the after effects of these changes are obvious. people die faster, way to fast in my opinion, i havent gotten any better in skill and my gear has been minorly upgraded, yet i can kill a target insanely fast or be killled insanely fast with or without a pocket healer. before a healer could keep me alive for a while and even though i couldnt kill as fast i stayed alive longer and felt productive to my team. getting the kills that were needed to win the warzones.

i believe that by adding the 10% to the heaing bonus and slightly improving resource consumption for healing things will be over all better from a QOL standpoint, the game was fairly balanced overall before 1.2
healers were hard to kill and were a force to worry about but with smart focus fire a healer could die just like anyone else. now most healers i know feel useless and half of them are switching to dps. this is affecting warzones alot since with less healers around the increase in damage feels 10 times worse than it should.

i really hope this is addressed soon i really like my healers and without healers this is going to be a very unhappy customer. and i am pretty sure the few pages before me also show i am not the only one.
Quote: Originally Posted by Kyrandis View Post
I hate to say this but we are in terms of genetics 96% the same as chimps. We evolved from chimps, but damn I must say that 4% makes all the difference.

Xsorus's Avatar


Xsorus
04.19.2012 , 06:22 AM | #110
Can't blame Mythic for this one, Mythic didn't have a PvP stat in their last 2 games (other then realm rank).

This is Bioware 100% copying Blizzard and making the same mistake they did.

Trion at least realized the mistake early on after I brought up the fact that PvP specific stats should never be different on PvP gear sets as that's not their intended purpose.

The PvP stat was designed to separate PVE and PVP gear sets, having one pvp set with 20% bonus damage, while another have 15% bonus damage is borderline moronic as you're applying a stat budget to a stat that shouldn't be budgeted in the first place.

Simply put, all PvP gear should have the same amount of Expertise on it, there is zero reason for War Hero to have more then Recruit as War Hero already has a Massive Stat advantage + set bonus.