Welcome to The BattleZone! In this massive tournament, we pit legendary Jedi and Sith against each other to find out who the deadliest master of the Force is! In our previous match in the Winner's Bracket, Jedi Master Kit Fisto was overpowered by Savage Opress. In this match, Ulic Qel-Droma engages Jedi Master Plo Koon in single combat. Only in The BattleZone!

Character Bios:

Ulic Qel-Droma:

Once one of the most promising Jedi of his era, Ulic Qel-Droma fell to the Dark Side and served as the Supreme Commander of the Krath and Mandalorian armies, as well as the Sith Apprentice of the Dark Lord of the Sith Exar Kun, during the Great Sith War. Ulic led the Sith crusade as the face of the threat to the Republic and masterminded many campaigns against the Republic, even striking Coruscant itself.

During the attack on the Jedi Library World of Ossus, Ulic engaged and murdered his own brother in single combat. Overcome by grief and cut off from the Force by Nomi Sunrider, Ulic Qel-Droma turned on his Sith Master and led the Republic to Kun’s stronghold on Yavin IV.

Ulic was eventually killed by a spacer looking to make a name for himself.

Plo Koon:

The student of legendary Jedi Master Tyvokka and hero of the Stark Hyperspace War, Jedi Master Plo Koon was a long-time member of the Jedi Order and Senior Jedi General during the Clone Wars. Plo Koon was tasked with several vital campaigns during the war, including the hunt for Separatist superweapon The Malevolence, securing the vital and incredibly powerful super-resource Agrocite, capturing the Rendili system, and securing Brentaal IV. As the Republic pushed back the Separatists, Plo Koon joined Ki-Adi Mundi in securing the New Territories and vital Separatist worlds. He smashed the Separatist defense force at Ywllanda to allow Master Mundi to attack Mygeeto.

In the final stages of the Clone Wars, Plo Koon was tasked with the final assault of Cato Neimoidia, where he was killed by his clone soldiers in accordance with contingency Order 66.

Lightsaber Skill:

Ulic Qel-Droma:

Ulic Qel-Droma was a highly skilled lightsaber duelist, and master of Form V, Djem So/Shien. As expected, his offense and defense were very strong. Ulic also eliminated Form V’s mobility weakness through Force-based physical augmentation to increase his agility. His skill with the blade was such that he was able to hold his own against the incredibly skilled Exar Kun during their brief duel. He has even engaged other Jedi even when cut off from the Force. Most notably he engaged the enraged Cathar Jedi Sylvar, a highly skilled duelist in her own right.

Plo Koon:

Jedi Master Plo Koon was renowned as one of the most skilled lightsaber duelists of his time, with Qui-Gon Jinn recognizing him as an expert swordsman and Darth Maul considering him a true test for his skills. He was a master of Form V- Shien/Djem So, and was trained in Ataru. Over his long career, Plo Koon developed a fighting style that allowed him to deal with any combat situation he could encounter.

Plo Koon has had few actual lightsaber duels, but the duels he has engaged in are indicative of impressive skill. His first duel was with Asajj Ventress on Khorm, where he engaged and defeated her while suffering from a broken arm. His second duel was with Savage Opress. His defeat in this case was only caused by the loss of his breath mask, a move Savage could only accomplish when Plo Koon was distracted and his guard was lowered.

Edge: They share similar skill sets, and similar levels of skill. However, Plo Koon has shown greater adaptability as a duelist. He has proven that he can deal with more agile opponents, and incredible physical force being brought down on him. If Savage Opress couldn’t break Koon’s defense Ulic Qel-Droma can’t, but can Plo Koon break Ulic’s defense? It is difficult to say. They have both gone down separate paths and philosophies in Form V. Unlike the great Form V masters of his time, Plo Koon is the personification of the maxim ‘peace through superior firepower’, whereas Ulic deals in the maxim of dominating the fight through overwhelming strength. Plo Koon’s passivity should not be mistaken for weakness, however. In the end, they effectively stalemate each other in what they bring to the table.

Physicality:

Ulic Qel-Droma:

Ulic Qel-Droma is a human male in his physical prime. He is incredibly strong and incredibly tough. Ulic Qel-Droma suffered from torture at the hands of the Krath Cult for a prolonged period of time, and his stamina was incredible.

Ulic’s only real detriment is a shrapnel wound he suffered. The wound can start to bleed out depending on the amount of stress his body is under, but it is not incredibly debilitating, and he has engaged in lightsaber combat despite the wound bleeding out.

Plo Koon:

Plo Koon is an old Jedi Master well past his prime. Despite being at such an advanced age, Plo Koon was still incredibly strong and tough. Kel Dor warriors are noted for their physical capabilities at such an age, even being able to take on much younger Jedi Knights. Without Force-based physical augmentation, Plo Koon’s body is not particularly durable. As he notes: “Bones brittle with the passing of ages” after breaking his arm in an avalanche. However, Force based physical augmentation greatly increased his physical capabilities. He was more than capable of staggering Savage Opress through sheer strength, and he was more than capable of weathering Savage’s immense strength. Plo Koon’s actions on Khorm also demonstrated an incredible tolerance for pain. When his arm was broken by an avalanche caused by Asajj Ventress, he barely acknowledges his broken arm, and he hardly flinches at his broken arm being attacked during his duel with Ventress.

Plo Koon’s only physical weakness is his antiox breath mask which, when removed, would cause him to die a slow and painful death due to asphyxiation.

Edge: While Ulic Qel-Droma’s strength and durability are impressive, Plo Koon more than matches him in those areas, and it is unlikely they could overwhelm the other in such a way. In the end, it comes down to physical weaknesses. While it is questionable whether or not Ulic could exploit Plo Koon’s weakness, it is still a greater weakness. Ulic Qel-Droma gets the edge.

Mentality:

Ulic Qel-Droma:

Ulic Qel-Droma was a gifted tactician on and off the battlefield. During Exar Kun’s Sith War, Qel-Droma planned several campaigns and manipulated the Republic into taking actions that would leave it open to attack in other areas, most notably the Coruscant attack. In single combat, Qel-Droma was experienced in recognizing the weaknesses of an enemy and exploiting them, as well as using the terrain as an advantage.

Plo Koon:

Jedi Master Plo Koon was an expert tactician on and off the battlefield. He was excellent in adapting to his situation and quickly devising new strategies to make the most of any situation he finds himself in. During the Clone Wars, he masterminded several vital campaigns, serving with distinction of Khorm, Brentaal and many other worlds.

Plo Koon was an expert in recognizing and exploiting enemy weaknesses. He was also a highly capable Dun Moch user.

Edge: Neither really gets an edge here because they have very similar tactical views and Plo Koon’s Dun Moch is unlikely to benefit him in any real way.

Force Abilities:

Ulic Qel-Droma:

Ulic Qel-Droma was a very powerful Sith Lord. He was a very powerful user of telekinesis, and bouts of Force Rage increased this ability to the point that he could telekinetically thrash other Force users with ease. He also developed a proclivity for using Force Choke.

He was also high skilled in the Jedi Mind Trick, even advancing it to outright mind control.

Plo Koon:

Descendant from a long line of Kel Dor Jedi, Plo Koon inherited a powerful connection to the Force. He was a master of a variety of abilities, basic and esoteric.

He was a powerful telepath, able to infiltrate the minds of others and communicate or read the thoughts of others with little difficulty. He has even used telepathy to mentally assault others. As a defense against mental intrusion, Plo Koon was a practitioner of the anya-seff technique of the Baran Do Sages. He was also a powerful practitioner of the Jedi Mind Trick, which he could use to manipulate potentially dozens of subjects at a time.

Plo Koon was a renowned master of telekinesis, and he had little difficulty manipulating small of incredibly large objects. He has even used the Force to collapse the entrance to a mountain while on the run with ease. More notably, he has used powerful Force Pushes and Waves to assault enemies, even breaching the Force defenses of opposing Force users with little difficulty.

Plo Koon was also skilled in the usage of Force Shields to defend himself against physical attacks. He was also a master of Alter Environment, due to his extensive knowledge of the physical sciences.

However, possibly his most infamous ability was his usage of Force lightning, which he called Electric Judgment. While he has only used this ability once, he has mastered the ability and believes that it would be a useful combative tool.

Edge: Ulic Qel-Droma is a powerful Sith Lord, but he lacks variety in his applications. He is a powerful user of telekinesis and telepathic abilities such as Mind Trick, but that is as far as it goes. Plo Koon, on the other hand, is a more powerful user of telekinesis and telepathic abilities, and he has a broader variety of abilities to call upon in battle. And finally, Plo Koon is more willing to use his abilities in combat, whereas Ulic Qel-Droma’s usage of combative Force abilities is rare. Plo Koon gets the edge.

So who will win? Who is truly superior?

Plo, because Alter Environment

I don't think Plo Koon will get the time to use it. I don't see Ulic letting up enough for him to try it.

How?

One would assume such an ability would heavily drain the user, yes? No. This ability requires very little energy. Instead, the user harnesses the innate energy of the object that they intend to manipulate for their own purposes. This results in a Jedi creating massive environmental phenomenons while expending little to no energy. However, such phenomenons require precise control to prevent catastrophies.

I see no real drawbacks of this power as it requires little energy from the user. With the proper control, a Jedi could turn the environment against their enemies with ease.

Takes concentration? Yes. But Plo's lightsaber defense + his natural affinity of it and knowledge of physics could provide the opportunity to use it for some degree to tip the balance of the duel on his favour. They are so alike, Alter Environment could lead to Plo's victory over a stalemate.

How?

 

Takes concentration? Yes. But Plo's lightsaber defense + his natural affinity of it and knowledge of physics could provide the opportunity to use it for some degree to tip the balance of the duel on his favour. They are so alike, Alter Environment could lead to Plo's victory over a stalemate.

While true, it still takes some concentration to use. Ulic is an uncompromising duelist. Unless Plo Koon can get away from Ulic, it's unlikely to happen.

While true, it still takes some concentration to use. Ulic is an uncompromising duelist. Unless Plo Koon can get away from Ulic, it's unlikely to happen.

If I remember correctly, Koons electric Judgement was purely subconcious, though he himself Induced it. He controlled it without even having to think, even though he chose to use it.

Same could be done here, he could use Electric Judgement whilst altering the Environment, sure it would drain him a bit more than usual, but would still be one devastating attack.

If I remember correctly, Koons electric Judgement was purely subconcious, though he himself Induced it. He controlled it without even having to think, even though he chose to use it.

 

Same could be done here, he could use Electric Judgement whilst altering the Environment, sure it would drain him a bit more than usual, but would still be one devastating attack.

It would probably not be very energy efficient. We would likely see him exhausted like when Koro Ziil did the same to Luke.

That would look pretty sick, though.

*shrug* these guys are so alike that its difficult to say. Ultimately though Droma is the superior Force User, and maybe even the better lightsaber duelist. So basically he wins.

Don't worry Zannah, you'll get your revenge next time.

*shrug* these guys are so alike that its difficult to say. Ultimately though Droma is the superior Force User, and maybe even the better lightsaber duelist. So basically he wins.

 

Don't worry Zannah, you'll get your revenge next time.

Going to have to elaborate.

Going to have to elaborate.

Djem So is strength orientated, so I'd say being stronger in the Force is basically going to make his blows hit harder, and his defense more staunch. It will end up being a war of attrition, and Ulic is better geared in this respect.

Is Ulic more powerful than Plo Koon? I don't see it, so prove it to me.

Is Ulic more powerful than Plo Koon? I don't see it, so prove it to me.

I don't think either is stronger then the other. While I believe Qel Droma's lack of physical detrements (the mask) gives him the advantage in a pure fight. Koon's more willingness to use more Force Powers in combat I think is the real deciding factor here.

Both I think will match each other blow for blow in Saber combat quite literally being a test of endurance, but Koon is much more willing to use Force powers in combat and I think in the end that will be the deciding factor. Pelting Droma with the occasional object or force push to either wear him down or off balance him and open him up for Koon to take control through "superior Firepower". They are nearly evenly matched on every ground I believe Koon's larger variety of TK abilities and his willingness to use them is the real deciding factor of this match.

For me the winner is Plo Koon.

Edit: we need to watch how often we call one person "more powerful" then another when it comes to force powers across era's. I feel its impossible to truly say one is more powerful then the other. They achieved similar success with similar (if not exactly the same) styles. I don't think there is any grounds to 100% assume that either is stronger then the other. Its fine when trying to make a most powerful list, but when trying to judge fighting capabilities we need to judge every feat individually (aka strength of Force Push does not translate to strength of lightning or Force embewed strength or Valor so on and So forth, we know some force users are better with certain powers then they are with others. So "more powerful" is not a blanket thing nor should it be.)

Is Ulic more powerful than Plo Koon? I don't see it, so prove it to me.

I don't think either is stronger then the other. While I believe Qel Droma's lack of physical detrements (the mask) gives him the advantage in a pure fight. Koon's more willingness to use more Force Powers in combat I think is the real deciding factor here

 

Both I think will match each other blow for blow in Saber combat quite literally being a test of endurance, but Koon is much more willing to use Force powers in combat and I think in the end that will be the deciding factor. Pelting Droma with the occasional object or force push to either wear him down or off balance him and open him up for Koon to take control through "superior Firepower". They are nearly evenly matched on every ground I believe Koon's larger variety of TK abilities and his willingness to use them is the real deciding factor of this match.

 

For me the winner is Plo Koon.

 

Edit: we need to watch how often we call one person "more powerful" then another when it comes to force powers across era's. I feel its impossible to truly say one is more powerful then the other. They achieved similar success with similar (if not exactly the same) styles. I don't think there is any grounds to 100% assume that either is stronger then the other. Its fine when trying to make a most powerful list, but when trying to judge fighting capabilities we need to judge every feat individually (aka strength of Force Push does not translate to strength of lightning or Force embewed strength or Valor so on and So forth, we know some force users are better with certain powers then they are with others. So "more powerful" is not a blanket thing nor should it be.)

Indeed does Ulic not hold 9th place on the Most Powerful Sith Lightsaber duelists list? Heck I'm pretty sure he was among if not the best duelist in the Jedi Order after Exar Kun left. I see no such accolades from Koon.

And Ulic is a Sith Lord, if he feels the need to use Force Powers, he will do so gladly.

I don't see any evidence that suggests Koon comes close to Ulic's power really.

I don't understand how Plo Koon can match Ulic blow for blow in lightsaber combat when Ulic himself managed to stalemate against Exar Kun himself, one of the greatest lightsaber duelists and most powerful Force Users in history.

 

Indeed does Ulic not hold 9th place on the Most Powerful Sith Lightsaber duelists list? Heck I'm pretty sure he was among if not the best duelist in the Jedi Order after Exar Kun left. I see no such accolades from Koon.

 

And Ulic is a Sith Lord, if he feels the need to use Force Powers, he will do so gladly.

 

I don't see any evidence that suggests Koon comes close to Ulic's power really.

Read the edit. Those lists and this have nothing to do with one another. There is no way to assume a master of Djem So and Shien utilizing ataru occasionally such as Koon would not have done the same in Droma's position.

"The Most powerful" and such are useless here. Heck I would want to show you Jensaari's battle between Koon and Vader which illustrates the same. We have Vader on Par with Kun in saber combat and Jensaari had both Kun and Koon on Par with Vader. They achieved similar things with similar techniques. They are thousands of years apart its truly impossible to say one or the other is better/worse then the other in this regard when the fact is they both achieved things in a similar manner. Don't use the most powerful list in these its useless, or at least it should be.

Read the edit. Those lists and this have nothing to do with one another. There is no way to assume a master of Djem So and Shien utilizing ataru occasionally such as Koon would not have done the same in Droma's position.

 

"The Most powerful" and such are useless here. Heck I would want to show you Jensaari's battle between Koon and Vader which illustrates the same. We have Vader on Par with Kun in saber combat and Jensaari had both Kun and Koon on Par with Vader. They achieved similar things with similar techniques. They are thousands of years apart its truly impossible to say one or the other is better/worse then the other in this regard when the fact is they both achieved things in a similar manner. Don't use the most powerful list in these its useless, or at least it should be.

As is are his lightsaber abiliites. You can't just say "we can't compare them!" and then just compare them but inaccurately and vaguely. I actually take issue with this in some of the Jensaarai's videos, he is often too vague I feel and reduces it to a rock, paper, scissors contest when there is obviously a lot more too it that that.

And the battle between Koon and Vader he never acknowledged it was a close fight, but the opposite.

EDIT: One of the reasons I did the lists was so that we can be more definitive concerning who is superior to who. I have no idea why in the context of a duel there should be any differentiation in direct comparison of Force abilities. How they apply to battle is a different ball park of course, but in terms of an abstract comparison, its the same.

But hey if you want to cop out because you feel you lack the capability of making accurate comparison then fine, but don't tell other people to do the same.

He was named a Dark Lord of the Sith alongside Exar Kun, I don't think that point requires elaboration.

Reputation and position is not enough. Prove it with how Ulic has applied his abilities.

Reputation and position is not enough. Prove it with how Ulic has applied his abilities.

If you feel the point requires elaboration, then their is no point attempting to explain it, because anyone who believes that Ulic is not superior to Koon is not going to change their mind.

These vs. matches may not need as much discussion as a Kaggath, but that doesn't mean you can slack off on your arguments.

The last line was a response to that edit. The most powerful lists are not arbitary, they are the product of detailed anaylsis of the facts. Pretty sure that's useful. Ulic's showings in the Force and his reputation is superior to Koon's.

 

As is are his lightsaber abiliites. You can't just say "we can't compare them!" and then just compare them but inaccurately and vaguely. I actually take issue with this in some of the Jensaarai's videos, he is often too vague I feel and reduces it to a rock, paper, scissors contest when there is obviously a lot more too it that that.

 

And the battle between Koon and Vader he never acknowledged it was a close fight, but the opposite.

 

EDIT: One of the reasons I did the lists was so that we can be more definitive concerning who is superior to who. I have no idea why in the context of a duel there should be any differentiation in direct comparison of Force abilities. How they apply to battle is a different ball park of course, but in terms of an abstract comparison, its the same.

 

But hey if you want to cop out because you feel you lack the capability of making accurate comparison then fine, but don't tell other people to do the same.

Then those lists need a SERIOUS look over, as you are comparing direct power and as I have said a million times already. Different people have different strength with different powers. Just look compare any one from the NJO with their counter parts and you see this. Cihgal is in some ways better then Luke at healing powers. Corran Horn is possibly the strongest user of Tutaminis in the entire NJO. Saba also rivals the most powerful person in life senses. Leia is one of if not the strongest telepath in the NJO. So on and so forth.

How do you Judge that Droma has greater saber skill then Koon? Title? a place on an arbitrary list that we made up?

They were both touted masters of form V utilizing Form IV for extra speed. If you actually intended those lists to meaningful you went about those lists wrong in my opinion. Nothing in them is set in stone and while some one can be considered "more powerful" they could still have points where they are weaker in certain powers.

Best Example I would argue Corran Horn has better Tutaminis ability then Revan, yet Revan is more powerful because of his overall power and power in other skills.

There are more skilled jedi then there are skilled sith. Its possible that the number 20 Jedi could match the number 9 sith. Because the Jedi under 8 are all likely so close to one another its ridiculous. Remember Koon was considered for the lists in almost every case both Force power and Lightsaber skill. He would likely be around 12 or so, so the closeness of their abilities is to close to truly call one truly better then the other.

I personally consider any one on those lists interchangeable in locations a good majority of the time. They just need to be on the list but they are all so extremely close with one or another if they were to come to blows, 9/10 it will be circumstance and stylistic differences that decide the outcome, not "power".

Edit: In my opinion cross era, rock, paper, scissors is the ONLY way it should be done. The training hasn't changed the Force hasn't changed. A form V user is a Form V user. One that uses Form V with a little Form IV is still some one that uses Form V with a little form IV. You can compare force powers, but just because some one is a "more powerful" Telekinetic does not automatically mean his feats with Force Valor are better. They come from completely different schools and even if they didn't we have seen people have different skills in powers that come from the same school. Look again at Leia she can preform all kinds of powerful TK abilities like Wave's pushes and crushes and the like, but when it comes to levitating objects she struggles to hold on to them prefering to push them away if she is attacked by them rather then grab them. Obi-wan is the same way having a more powerful Push then his usual TK abilities. So on and So forth. Those lists are uselss when talking about combat and should always be. If you didn't intend them to be from the start then you did those lists for the wrong reasons in my opinion.

Arbitrary list? Are you aware of the meaning of the word:

based on random choice or personal whim, rather than any reason or system.

Yah, totally arbitary.

The lists we made judges abilities in three categories, if one individual is greater at certain abilities but weaker in others then they can still be deemed superior, if these showings indicate stronger ability in the Force. Fay is a perfect example. Leia, Horn and Saba etc. would be judged fairly, there abilities in these categories are formidable, but ultimately they are surpassed by others in superior categories who pick up the slack in their specialties as well.

Or are you suggesting we put Cighal above Luke Skywalker?

On a more general note, we can't compare people in categories they don't share, but having the broader categories of Sense, Alter and Control help marginalize this problem by acting as umbrella's for comparison. Nor should we ever forget that ultimately we are judging raw ability to wield the Force as opposed to skill, knowledge and innate talent.

So let's save that 'serious look over' for when you can come up with a better system that isn't just fluff.

Regardless we are talking about duelling ability are we not? The rules are different there. And was it not you yourself that argued Ulic Qel Droma deserved a place on this list? I don't recall hearing any mention of Plo Koon.

Anyway, I only make these comparisons because Ulic and Koon are pretty identical. Both are wielders of Djem So, physically capable, use standard Force Abilities (discounting some of Koon's less used abilities) and are pretty straight up fighters. In such a case, how else are we supposed to judge individuals so stylistically similar?

The way I see it, if Ulic is a superior Force User and superior duelist he can outmatch Koon in Djem So through superior strength and skill. Force ability I'd give to Ulic hands down, his abilities are just far more raw and potent, telekinetically and telepathically, in comparison to Koon. Lightsaber ability is a little closer, but the way I see it being the best duelist in the current order and able to go toe-to-toe with Exar Kun are things that seem to outshine Koon's own skill.

I'm not saying this is definite, but if I were to give an edge, I'd give it to Ulic, in both respects.

And yes Koon seems better at applying his Force powers, but in terms of bolstering one's speed and strength raw ability as opposed to skill takes center stage - regardless Ulic has shown mastery over Force Speed either way.

Anyway I really don't care who wins or loses this match, I've made my points, I'll let Aurbere decide.

I think Dark Rage gives Ulic a massive advantage Form V vs Form V, his strength will be many magnitudes greater.

We also have to consider the fact that even without a connection to the Force, Ulic was so skilled in lightsaber combat that he could still kill powerful Dark Jedi, which is impressive all by itself.

I think Dark Rage gives Ulic a massive advantage Form V vs Form V, his strength will be many magnitudes greater.

 

We also have to consider the fact that even without a connection to the Force, Ulic was so skilled in lightsaber combat that he could still kill powerful Dark Jedi, which is impressive all by itself.

Arbitrary list? Are you aware of the meaning of the word:

 

based on random choice or personal whim, rather than any reason or system.

 

Yah, totally arbitary.

 

The lists we made judges abilities in three categories, if one individual is greater at certain abilities but weaker in others then they can still be deemed superior, if these showings indicate stronger ability in the Force. Fay is a perfect example. Leia, Horn and Saba etc. would be judged fairly, there abilities in these categories are formidable, but ultimately they are surpassed by others in superior categories who pick up the slack in their specialties as well.

 

Or are you suggesting we put Cighal above Luke Skywalker?

 

On a more general note, we can't compare people in categories they don't share, but having the broader categories of Sense, Alter and Control help marginalize this problem by acting as umbrella's for comparison. Nor should we ever forget that ultimately we are judging raw ability to wield the Force as opposed to skill, knowledge and innate talent.

 

So let's save that 'serious look over' for when you can come up with a better system that isn't just fluff.

 

Regardless we are talking about duelling ability are we not? The rules are different there. And was it not you yourself that argued Ulic Qel Droma deserved a place on this list? I don't recall hearing any mention of Plo Koon.

 

Anyway, I only make these comparisons because Ulic and Koon are pretty identical. Both are wielders of Djem So, physically capable, use standard Force Abilities (discounting some of Koon's less used abilities) and are pretty straight up fighters. In such a case, how else are we supposed to judge individuals so stylistically similar?

 

The way I see it, if Ulic is a superior Force User and superior duelist he can outmatch Koon in Djem So through superior strength and skill. Force ability I'd give to Ulic hands down, his abilities are just far more raw and potent, telekinetically and telepathically, in comparison to Koon. Lightsaber ability is a little closer, but the way I see it being the best duelist in the current order and able to go toe-to-toe with Exar Kun are things that seem to outshine Koon's own skill.

 

I'm not saying this is definite, but if I were to give an edge, I'd give it to Ulic, in both respects.

 

And yes Koon seems better at applying his Force powers, but in terms of bolstering one's speed and strength raw ability as opposed to skill takes center stage - regardless Ulic has shown mastery over Force Speed either way.

 

Anyway I really don't care who wins or loses this match, I've made my points, I'll let Aurbere decide.

I agree with how those lists are made and mostly the conclusions made in them, but that does not mean we should ignore a direct ability comparison or assume that one being stronger in TK results in Faster Force Speed or Valor. These are different powers and different powers that draw on completely different schools of power. Not to mention as I have already PROVEN people have different levels of strength with powers in the SAME school. The lists are fine using them as a justification when making a direct comparison of abilities with people is not. Those lists are about "most powerful" not about who would win against who. We stated that in the lists themselves. And that some out of combat abilities were taken into consideration because of this.

While I argued Droma on the list it was partially his ability to fight in total darkness that helps. This match isn't in a dark room. The area will always be lit, this means such a talent will not come into play. Koon has similar level of skill just not the darkness fighting. Koon was argued for the "most powerful" jedi lists I don't believe Droma was. Remember "power" is more then just raw power its also the ability of the wielder to control this. In a fight its more about utilizing these powers in combat then raw power. The advantage there is Koon, he is more willing to use Force powers and while Droma may have shown more raw power he doesn't do so in the midst of a fight.

Those lists are arbitrary because of their ability to be changed. We had to convince YOU of something, you had the ultimate authority in those lists and its based on the most accurate form of "force power" we could find. This does not make a clear cut though that a person who is number 5 on the list is stronger in every single power (valor and speed) as a guy that comes 3000 years later that would be 12. We even stated a while back that people at the bottom of the lists could often challenge everyone else on those lists and fair dead even almost. Every member on those lists are within a very small percent of each other same with those that were close to making the list but didn't.

This is a case where an assumption that because Droma has shown more Raw power with TK, that he has more Raw power with everything else. That is a jump of logic and one we shouldn't make in a combat. We can use the TK to assume him "more powerful" but when putting him in a fight we shouldn't consider "more powerful" as "more powerful in every single category and every single power in every single category" that's just not how the force works.

The REAL Most Powerful Series operates under a system based on reason. Just because I have the ultimate authority does not make them arbitrary, you had to reason with me. I was not some whimsical jester prancing around slapping random names on the list at a whim. So lets stop with the blatant misuse of that particular term.

Anyway, I see your point, however your not considering how Ulic is very much orientated towards these abilities. There is a reason he rarely uses Force Powers in lightsaber duels and elsewhere, because he is a martial fighter, he channels his Force Ability into his strength and speed. And this is apparent through his potent Dark Rage and impressive speed feats. Plo Koon being a wielder of the Djem So style likely does something similar.

Which is why I made the comparison. Regardless as I said things like Force Valor/Rage and Speed tend to come more naturally than other abilities are require much less refined skill or innate ability, few if any are incapable here.

There are not jumps in logic being made here, the facts are quite clear. But yeah, my points are on the table.