Steal this idea from World of Warcraft, please. When the queue detects a shortage of tanks or healers, it offers extra rewards for performing those roles at the end of a dungeon. It WORKED. It lowered everyone's queue times dramatically (from 2 hours to 10-15 minutes for DPS) because tanks and healers WANTED to queue for random dungeons.

The same thing could be done in TOR. Give them better comms, or more comms, or lots more money, anything. Get tanks and healers queuing!

P.S. Before anyone tells me to just roll a tank or healer, I'm almost always the healer. Sometimes I want to DPS though.

Edit: based on thread feedback, a small amount of cartel coins is a popular idea for one of the rewards, perhaps 5 or 10 coins per completion using the groupfinder.

I only have one question really, how do the tanks and healers know there is extra rewards up for grabs or is it simply take a stab and see.

In WoW, where it shows the rewards you'll get for using the group-finder, there's an extra box that shows if there's an extra reward based on role shortage. So you always know for sure.

So if you're a tank or healer and you open the groupfinder, you can see before even queuing if there's that extra reward waiting for you at the end. Then you can choose to queue or not based on that.

In WoW, where it shows the rewards you'll get for using the group-finder, there's an extra box that shows if there's an extra reward based on role shortage. So you always know for sure.

On the flip side wouldnt that make tanks and healers not do the group finder unless the rewards were there.

On the flip side wouldnt that make tanks and healers not do the group finder unless the rewards were there.

The only time the reward isn't there is when there are enough tanks and healers already. So it's pretty self-correcting. In practice it ended up with the reward for tanks being there 100% of the time, reward for healers about 60% of the time, and I'm not sure I ever saw a reward for DPS. That last could happen, but there'd need to be a shortage of DPS first.

The only time the reward isn't there is when there are enough tanks and healers already. So it's pretty self-correcting.

Not if the tanks and healers refuse to q until the reward is there so infact wouldnt it create a shortage until the reward was there. tanks and healers join the q when reward is there, reward then goes until the demand is back and the tanks and healers then wait again until the reward is available.

Not if the tanks and healers refuse to q until the reward is there so infact wouldnt it create a shortage until the reward was there. tanks and healers join the q when reward is there, reward then goes until the demand is back and the tanks and healers then wait again until the reward is available.

I never saw a time when that happened. The reward for tanks was there all the time. And healers queued even without it. If it DID happen, it just means a couple extra minutes til the rewards pop up and then you get your healers and tanks. Problem solved.

I never saw a time when that happened. The reward for tanks was there all the time. And healers queued even without it. If it DID happen, it just means a couple extra minutes til the rewards pop up and then you get your healers and tanks. Problem solved.

If the rewards were always there then how do you know it worked more then if there were no rewards at all ?

And if as you state the reward was always up and or not gone for long doesnt that suggest they were working the system todo that.

Why not generalize it? Make rewards available for any shortage— not just roles (including DPS, if you wind up with a shortage!), but the adventures as well. Normally I don’t queue for the planetary heroics, but if I saw little haloes around their checkboxes indicating that there was a nice bonus, I might be more interested.

It would also be interesting to see the statistics of how often the rewards are getting handed out for various things. If it looks like there’s a chronic shortage, it might be worthwhile to respec a character into a different role.

I doubt there would be much minmaxing because checking the queues all the time would be boring; why not just go on two adventures?

If the rewards were always there then how do you know it worked more then if there were no rewards at all ?.

Before the system was implemented, queues were up to 2 hours for DPS. After, queues were 10 to 15 minutes. It was a smashing success.

Before the system was implemented, queues were up to 2 hours for DPS. After, queues were 10 to 15 minutes. It was a smashing success.

if you are refering to wow then as far as i am aware that was achieved by them expanding the radius of the battlegroups. Im simply stating without solid statistics neither of use can say for a fact what happened, why it happened, how player behaviour changed or the frequency of flashpoint group formation through the group finder application.

if you are refering to wow then as far as i am aware that was achieved by them expanding the radius of the battlegroups. Im simply stating without solid statistics neither of use can say for a fact what happened, why it happened, how player behaviour changed or the frequency of flashpoint group formation through the group finder application.

I actually play the game and was there. The timeline is pretty easy to figure out since those two events happened rather far apart from each other.

I actually play the game and was there. The timeline is pretty easy to figure out since those two events happened rather far apart from each other.

Why do you assume i did not. I find it odd that you would assume such a thing to try and define your statement as true. So again without the statistics you nor i can say if groups formed faster, if tanks and healers got groups faster but dps stayed about on an average of before.

Your working on assumptions based on your experience, that is not forced tobe the experience of everyone nor the mediun across the spectrum of players within your pool group. It could simply be the fact that as higher rewards were given to specific templates that those templates became FOTM and balanced out even for a little bit while the disparigy between pure dps and support classes of which duel spec probably had a higher effect then more people doing specific roles constantly.

The best solution would be to provide a reward for every run aslong as you select all flashpoints for that difficulty setting with the relevent tokens as a reward for every role/person. Maybe even an artifact box added on for the 1st run of the day as a daily reward and the box's acan be the level equiv of the flashpoint being run.

while the disparigy between pure dps and support classes of which duel spec probably had a higher effect then more people doing specific roles constantly.

SWTOR already effectively has dual spec and it didn't fix anything with regards to queue times for DPS. So there goes that hypothesis.

SWTOR already effectively has dual spec and it didn't fix anything with regards to queue times for DPS. So there goes that hypothesis.

We do not have duel spec, we have an option to respec, not the same thing. The hypothesis still stands as you have brought no facts to this debate only opinions based on your personal experience in another game that works under a different system.

We do not have duel spec, we have an option to respec, not the same thing.

An option to respec whenever and wherever you want, for free. It's actually BETTER than dual spec.

The hypothesis still stands as you have brought no facts to this debate only opinions based on your personal experience in another game that works under a different system.

I don't even understand your argument anymore. What "different system"? Players using a grouping tool to find random people to group with to do a "dungeon". It's the same.

I don't even understand why you're arguing against it. If this system got even 20% more tanks to queue, it's a win. If no extra tanks queued, nothing's lost. What's the point of arguing against an idea that has no downside whatsoever?

An option to respec whenever and wherever you want, for free. It's actually BETTER than dual spec.

 

 

 

I don't even understand your argument anymore. What "different system"? Players using a grouping tool to find random people to group with to do a "dungeon". It's the same.

 

I don't even understand why you're arguing against it. If this system got even 20% more tanks to queue, it's a win. If no extra tanks queued, nothing's lost.

Are you sure you play this game, i am wondering based upon what you have just stated, we do not have duel spec or anything better then duel spec, a healer and tank advanced tree can respec into a more dps tree within there advanced tree but a gunslinger for example cannot respec into sawbones.

This game doesnt work on cross server RGF which bioware can increase or decrease the pool size of players based on peak times or peak load nor demand. The pool of players and main classes stay the same size only changing on peak to none peak times.

If this system just gives extra rewards for being a specific build or people of those builds to work the system until extra rewards were available then that becomes a problem and a disparigy against pure dps class's. And you have yet to show facts that this actualy works. Not to mention the fact we only get the reward once per day.

Why not generalize it? Make rewards available for any shortage— not just roles (including DPS, if you wind up with a shortage!)

"I can't find a DPS through Group Finder" said no-body ever.

Are you sure you play this game, i am wondering based upon what you have just stated, we do not have duel spec or anything better then duel spec, a healer and tank advanced tree can respec into a more dps tree within there advanced tree but a gunslinger for example cannot respec into sawbones.

What are you talking about? What does ANY of that have to do with the field respec bot and its use in TOR as a dual spec replacement?

If this system just gives extra rewards for being a specific build or people of those builds to work the system until extra rewards were available then that becomes a problem and a disparigy against pure dps class's. And you have yet to show facts that this actualy works. Not to mention the fact we only get the reward once per day.

DPS players benefit by having shorter queues. Everyone wins. You're right about the once per day thing, though. It needs to be like the WoW system where it's offered as many times as you run a flashpoint with the random queue.

What are you talking about? What does ANY of that have to do with the field respec bot and its use in TOR as a dual spec replacement?

 

 

DPS players benefit by having shorter queues. Everyone wins. You're right about the once per day thing, though. It needs to be like the WoW system where it's offered as many times as you run a flashpoint with the random queue.

1st you stated we have duel spec, we do not, field respec does not give duel spec, it allows you to respec within your advanced tree, duel spec would involve being able to be a pure tank in one advanced tree and a pure dps in the other advanced tree, this is not the case.

Second, will dps players benefit this for the 1 RGF that we get the reward for if this actualy works. As of yet you have simply stated it works with no proof.

Your entire idea is based on the fact you state it works but with no proof of the fact. You are simply saying that the only way this can work is if tanks and healers get more rewards when it is entirely possible that giving a reward for every run will work.

1st you stated we have duel spec, we do not, field respec does not give duel spec, it allows you to respec within your advanced tree, duel spec would involve being able to be a pure tank in one advanced tree and a pure dps in the other advanced tree, this is not the case.

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We're done. We can't even communicate if you're going to use definitions of words nobody else uses. Dual spec does not mean changing your class. It doesn't mean that in WoW, and it doesn't mean that here either.

The field respec bot lets you change from tank to DPS and back, or from healer to DPS and back. It's functionally the same as WoW's dual speccing.

We're done. We can't even communicate if you're going to use definitions of words nobody else uses. Dual spec does not mean changing your class. It doesn't mean that in WoW, and it doesn't mean that here either.

A smuggler who is a sawbones and a smuggler who is a gunslinger are still a smuggler.

The field respec bot lets you change from tank to DPS and back, or from healer to DPS and back. It's functionally the same as WoW's dual speccing.

And it doesnt allow a pure dps ac to become its alter pure heal/tank ac. So no its not. Have a nice day.

Are you sure you play this game, i am wondering based upon what you have just stated, we do not have duel spec or anything better then duel spec, a healer and tank advanced tree can respec into a more dps tree within there advanced tree but a gunslinger for example cannot respec into sawbones.

 

This game doesnt work on cross server RGF which bioware can increase or decrease the pool size of players based on peak times or peak load nor demand. The pool of players and main classes stay the same size only changing on peak to none peak times.

 

If this system just gives extra rewards for being a specific build or people of those builds to work the system until extra rewards were available then that becomes a problem and a disparigy against pure dps class's. And you have yet to show facts that this actualy works. Not to mention the fact we only get the reward once per day.

1. advanced class is essentially a different class. so what you are saying about gunslinger and sawbones is an equivalent of rogue (or mage, or warlock - you get the idea, pure dps classes of WoW) respeccing to druid or something like that. so by your definition, because mage, or warlock, or rogue can ONLY play as dps - WoW doesn't have a dual spec.

smuggler is a story. gunslinger and sawbones share a story. they are not however the same class when it comes to game mechanics. in that gunslinger and sniper are more of the same class. however, my jugg can currently be a tank or dps with field respec. my operative can be a dps or a healer. ergo? we have a what is essentially a dual spec. and even gunslinger that you keep bringing up? can respec into different play styles.

2. contrary to popular belief, all cross server group finder did was give faster queues to people on less populated servers. it did NOT increase the overall ratio of tanks and healers to dps. bioware merged servers instead, to increase the player pool.

3. in WoW at least, rewards is NOT once a day. its basically unlimited.

now. I'm not a big fan of idea if only because it will mean even more people who don't know how to tank/heal queueing then they already do. unless its possibly to program group finder to read current spec to at least insure that even if people are not very good, they at least bothered to get appropriate talents. implementing gear check is a double edged sword that comes with both advantages and drawbacks.

plus no reward in a world will fix one of the major reason why many people don't queue as tanks/healers - having a larger responsibility in compensating for other players/dealing with headaches of other players not playing as a team.

and since it would be bad to at least not offer my own constructive suggestions, my favorite fix for dps queues is simply increasing the number of dps average group requires. (its another reason why queues in WoW are often shorter - 3 dps for each tank/healer vs TOR's 2.)

however. rewarding more needed roles in WoW did create an incentive for those roles to queue more often. they just tend to stop once they got all the rewards they could possibly get (since reward pool in WoW is pretty limited, even more so, now that pets and mounts are account wide)

1. advanced class is essentially a different class. so what you are saying about gunslinger and sawbones is an equivalent of rogue respeccing to druid or something like that.

2. contrary to popular belief, all cross server group finder did was give faster queues to people on less populated servers. it did NOT increase the overall ratio of tanks and healers to dps. bioware merged servers instead, to increase the player pool.

3. in WoW at least, rewards is NOT once a day. its basically unlimited.

 

now. I'm not a big fan of idea if only because it will mean even more people who don't know how to tank/heal queueing then they already do. unless its possibly to program group finder to read current spec to at least insure that even if people are not very good, they at least bothered to get appropriate talents. implementing gear check is a double edged sword that comes with both advantages and drawbacks.

 

plus no reward in a world will fix one of the major reason why many people don't queue as tanks/healers - having a larger responsibility in compensating for other players/dealing with headaches of other players not playing as a team.

 

and since it would be bad to at least not offer my own constructive suggestions, my favorite fix for dps queues is simply increasing the number of dps average group requires. (its another reason why queues in WoW are often shorter - 3 dps for each tank/healer vs TOR's 2.)

And again, i dont know how many times i have to state this, different system, lets state that again, different system. We get 1 reward per day per run, the other system gets a reward per run, this system locks you into an advanced tree the other system allows you to be duel spec in the classes that they have also available on a wider pool of hybrid classes. Whilst we have the AC as they get locked in at lvl10, so class is defined by type not tree ac.

And finialy, zero proof this works. Emphasis on proof. thats my problem, stating it works when the term 'work' is based on opinion not fact.

I see no proof that q times went down for dps as a whole, i see no proof that players didnt game the system to chain the rewards which increased the dps wait time.

The main problem with tors RGF espec whilst leveling is reward for using the RGF in the 1st place, its not specifically just tanks and healers that maybe short. Without statistics it could be a fact that whilst your waiting for an RGF you are infact a dps short for the specific run you are looking for. Im not stating that as fact as i do not have any but nor does anyone else bar Bioware and the statistics for the other system is held by Activision/Blizzard.