Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

My renewed list of changes for PT/VG

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Vanguard / Powertech
My renewed list of changes for PT/VG

Bonzenaattori's Avatar


Bonzenaattori
01.31.2018 , 07:02 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by TalonVII View Post
For this list ill be using the PT as I have played it far more.

1. Allowing PT to use tech blades and staves. Far as VG, they have a handy shoulder cannon to do all the animations with.

2. Oil slick and Translocate. I abhor these two abilities. To me they are worthless. Replace with maybe a shield overload ability that damages everyone in a 5 Meter radius and generates threat. Other ability, maybe a charging ability where you generate all your sheilds into one focal area and using it as a battering ram? Or something else.

3. Responsive safeguards. This should of been a PT ability from the get go.

4. Truama Regulators. Again should of been a PT ability. Though at 50% instead of the current 60 would be good.

5. Jet charge. PUT IT BACK TO LEVEL 2. If Juggs can have their charge at lvl 1, so can PT.

6. Legendary ability Pressure Overide. Make it 15m and perminate instead of 20m and only triggered when using explosive fuel. Or 15 terminate and 20 when using explosive fuel.

7. Make Fusion missile a BH universal ability instead of Merc Specific. I almost never use fusion missile(since I run IO) but on any PT spec, it would be a useful starter attack. Just my 2 credits there.

8. Remove deadly onslaught. The optimus prime knock off frankly looks STUPID. Rather an attack where the PT shoots a bunch of oil, then lights it up with a fireball. That would be far better and more in line with PTs using the fire gauntlet.

These are just my 2 credits. Cause ATM for a tank, I still think VG/PT are not in the same league even as Juggs let alone Assassins.

I think these changes would allow for PTs to get back in there and mix it up with an even chance.

Will all of them work? No. I am sure the Pressure Overides idea would have people screaming OP!!! But Saftey Overrides and TR? Should be on PT. Using tech blades. I see zero problems with that. Getting rid of 2 IMHO worthless abilities on ST with something a bit more useful? Again I don't see an issue. Or if you have ways of making it better, like allowing PTs to light oil slick on fire?

Anyways comment on how ya feel. And I have not given up on making PTs better. I don't want them OP by any means, but they can do WAY better.
1) I'd rather not, so long as I keep Rifle proficiency I won't mind.

2) Riot gas/Oil Slick is very good imo, but post nerf it's pretty bad.
Transpose has too many weaknesses
A minimum range, cast time, interruptable, pointless swap, benign presence removed if opponent attacks (even if the attack hits nothing or hits invulnerable target) that's way too unfair
It should just be a shield. Nuff said. I dare you to put that many stipulations on Sage Force Armor/Static Barrier and see if they bother use it...

3) Don't really care

4) Don't care either. The defensive option by frequency should be the same. But commando having 3 defenses over Vanguard is pushing your luck to a stupefied level

5) Could care less, I don't plan on playing pre-70
Return the 30% movement speed on the ability, and fix the awful utility. Battering ram is not even remotely Masterful level at it's current state.

6) I'd rather they just admit they were wrong about nerfing Bracer Propellant
Even if they go with your idea it's still not Legendary Utility, maybe Heroic or masterful

7) I have no interest in hard-casting a trash dot with terrible damage numbers.
I'd rather they just give us 3 new skills, seeing as they owe us. Instead of revamping Shoulder Cannon & STORM level acquisitions

8) Kinda dont care about animations so can't agree or disagree here.


---

MEH!
What I'd like for this class is some actual Legendary tier Utilities
They all look and feel like filler/recycled trash

While Commando can get 100% damage potential from Stealth scan... we get... ...5% while in tank spec, only when Battle Focus is up.
Uhm... okay

While Commando gets 15% defense rating on Supercharged Gas
We get... ...50% damage increase on gap closer if used in 10m range on an ability that my basic attack (rapid shots) hit's harder than.
Uhm... okay

While Commando gets 15% alacrity boost on electro net.
We get... ... the ability to fluff when we pull people.
Yeah ok, think my Inferiority complex is starting to kick in... bye

TalonVII's Avatar


TalonVII
01.31.2018 , 07:40 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Bonzenaattori View Post
1) I'd rather not, so long as I keep Rifle proficiency I won't mind.

2) Riot gas/Oil Slick is very good imo, but post nerf it's pretty bad.
Transpose has too many weaknesses
A minimum range, cast time, interruptable, pointless swap, benign presence removed if opponent attacks (even if the attack hits nothing or hits invulnerable target) that's way too unfair
It should just be a shield. Nuff said. I dare you to put that many stipulations on Sage Force Armor/Static Barrier and see if they bother use it...

3) Don't really care

4) Don't care either. The defensive option by frequency should be the same. But commando having 3 defenses over Vanguard is pushing your luck to a stupefied level

5) Could care less, I don't plan on playing pre-70
Return the 30% movement speed on the ability, and fix the awful utility. Battering ram is not even remotely Masterful level at it's current state.

6) I'd rather they just admit they were wrong about nerfing Bracer Propellant
Even if they go with your idea it's still not Legendary Utility, maybe Heroic or masterful

7) I have no interest in hard-casting a trash dot with terrible damage numbers.
I'd rather they just give us 3 new skills, seeing as they owe us. Instead of revamping Shoulder Cannon & STORM level acquisitions

8) Kinda dont care about animations so can't agree or disagree here.


---

MEH!
What I'd like for this class is some actual Legendary tier Utilities
They all look and feel like filler/recycled trash

While Commando can get 100% damage potential from Stealth scan... we get... ...5% while in tank spec, only when Battle Focus is up.
Uhm... okay

While Commando gets 15% defense rating on Supercharged Gas
We get... ...50% damage increase on gap closer if used in 10m range on an ability that my basic attack (rapid shots) hit's harder than.
Uhm... okay

While Commando gets 15% alacrity boost on electro net.
We get... ... the ability to fluff when we pull people.
Yeah ok, think my Inferiority complex is starting to kick in... bye
Just trying to get any kind of ideas going to make the class hell just on par with the other classes.
Pretty, so what do we blow up first? -Wraith Squadron Motto
Ebon Hawk
Skiratta Legacy

GhOsTPrOz's Avatar


GhOsTPrOz
02.06.2018 , 01:39 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by TalonVII View Post
Just trying to get any kind of ideas going to make the class hell just on par with the other classes.
I'll bite.

As a Vanguard Tank main since early 2.0 and someone who has tanked all NIM content in the game in every tier as all 3 tanks I would say they are in a good place. They out preform the other two tanks in the damage department by quite a bit, so much so that having 2 Vanguard Tanks is equivalent to an extra DPS, maybe more. I am easily able to do anywhere from 4 to 6k in full tank gear on most fights.

Where they are lacking is the Cooldown department and here is my proposed fix for that -

Shield Stabilizers - 2minute 30 second Cooldown. Throws up 5 charges of Shield Stabilizers that last for 20 seconds. Each charge will directly reduce the next incoming attacks damage by 5k. 1 charge is consumed per hit. This ability can be used on any member of your party. If not all the charges get consumed over 20 seconds the cool down is reduced by 30 seconds.

Adrenaline rush change - Make it activate at 40%. If it never activates during its duration it should give you an absorption bubble that will absorb the next 20k damage that goes out.


As for saying riot gas is not useful? It's eternally useful. 15% accuracy loss is great and unlike diversion it works on all bosses not just certain adds. It is essentially a raid cool down just like trancendence 10% defense, sniper shield 25% dr, guardian tanks Awe 20% dr, and Guardianship and Shadows 5% dr plus heals.
<Tragic Heroes> <Don't Tell Me What To Do> -Star Forge
http://tragicheroes.enjin.com/

Free stuff - http://www.swtor.com/r/XsKLPx

Bonzenaattori's Avatar


Bonzenaattori
02.15.2018 , 12:20 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by GhOsTPrOz View Post
I'll bite.

As a Vanguard Tank main since early 2.0 and someone who has tanked all NIM content in the game in every tier as all 3 tanks I would say they are in a good place. They out preform the other two tanks in the damage department by quite a bit, so much so that having 2 Vanguard Tanks is equivalent to an extra DPS, maybe more. I am easily able to do anywhere from 4 to 6k in full tank gear on most fights.

Where they are lacking is the Cooldown department and here is my proposed fix for that -

Shield Stabilizers - 2minute 30 second Cooldown. Throws up 5 charges of Shield Stabilizers that last for 20 seconds. Each charge will directly reduce the next incoming attacks damage by 5k. 1 charge is consumed per hit. This ability can be used on any member of your party. If not all the charges get consumed over 20 seconds the cool down is reduced by 30 seconds.

Adrenaline rush change - Make it activate at 40%. If it never activates during its duration it should give you an absorption bubble that will absorb the next 20k damage that goes out.


As for saying riot gas is not useful? It's eternally useful. 15% accuracy loss is great and unlike diversion it works on all bosses not just certain adds. It is essentially a raid cool down just like trancendence 10% defense, sniper shield 25% dr, guardian tanks Awe 20% dr, and Guardianship and Shadows 5% dr plus heals.
While I agree that your statement about Vanguards requiring better defensive option, I disagree with the ideas, I don't think they're bad
I don't want a cooldown clone from trashy Commandos, and the absorb shield will just trigger sages and scoundrels due to inferiority complex.

In my opinion I just feel like other classes have too much defensive option that ours will naturally look trash

I think Electro shield should be changed Vanguard specifically so it rewards Vanguards for procc'ing it's effect, for example it shouldn't be recipocate, but instead just continually damages targets inside a melee radius (maybe larger), this way, when mobs are on you, when you pull targets or leap to targets, you have a threatening effect

Battering Blitz and Pull and Pummel need to either be brought down a tier, or buffed greatly, they don't do much in contrast to other "legendary" utilities.
The 50% damage should affect STORM altogether, and then fix it's damage pool too, because atm the damage on storm doesn't reflect the tooltip
STORM should be doing more damage than Ion Pulse, but at the moment this is not the case

I feel Combat Focus should provide a buff to our allies at the same time as buffing us, instead of a 5% damage increase
As a tank, your shield spec based cell (Ion Cell) reduces damage by 10%, so 5% damage increase sounds kinda dumb, I think this should be an effect where it affects you AND your allies, for a small but more frequent buff, this way you're more like a field commander, that commands his soldiers on the front lines. And your combat focus serves as a battle cry that motivates you and demoralises your enemy.
As such, it should boost your allies damage (and you or exclude if you want to maintain the cute selfless Crusader archetype that was originally on guardian and then forced into vanguard's kit) by 5% and then reduce your enemy damage by 5% at the same time
Again, I don't think this is a legendary utility, it needs to be way more valuable for that

This is just stuff I want don't, personally i dont care about defensive option anymore for Vanguards, I get the feeling it just won't get better, I'd prefer they just nerf every other. Knowing bioware, this would prolly be their preferred choice also.
Buffing Vanguard is a waste of time unless the changes they bring encourage Vanguards to take unique options and allows them to play in expressive ways
A Vanguard should always take the opportunity to kite his/her opponent out, and its barely encouraged because... lul
I guess
if you're going to neglect the class' defenses, then stop nerfing it's ability to kite
simple as that

Jevaruss's Avatar


Jevaruss
02.16.2018 , 11:06 AM | #15
Just as an aside, storm is kinetic damage while ion pulse is elemental damage, hence the discrepancy on the tooltip of storm's damage.
OG Commando life.

Star Forge, formerly Shadowlands.

Bonzenaattori's Avatar


Bonzenaattori
02.17.2018 , 08:31 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Jevaruss View Post
Just as an aside, storm is kinetic damage while ion pulse is elemental damage, hence the discrepancy on the tooltip of storm's damage.
The damage is tested in an abundance of ways.
It's compared to rattle and reel which has the same damage modifier as well as the closest damage ouput and there is still a huge gap.
It's also tested with Hammer shot which is Energy damage that has the same armor vs damage modifier (Energy and Kinetic are both armor inclusive damage types) and Hammer shot has approx. 2k less damage on tooltip yet continues to out damage Storm.
Feel free to test it yourself

I primarily tested Storm vs Hammer shot, however I just got curious and tested with any ability that has a close damage pool regardless of it's damage vs armor/damage reduction modifiers simply because...

ironrd's Avatar


ironrd
02.17.2018 , 03:25 PM | #17
Translocate...
IF it were an instant cast. So many times Iíve tried to translocate a Huttball carrier to end zone, only for them to throw it at me before channel ended=epic fail.
IF the animation were streamlined to a phase walk level simplicity and speed.
IF like a guardians leap it were a way to bolster protection and mitigate threat. PVP I could see this, PVE? What tank is going to swap places with a dps or healer to manage threat, if it places the dps or healer directly into the bosses cleave?

That would be functional.

So many ifs. The only thing I know for certain is every time somebody interrupts it, it bug my game out and makes my toon go invisible/floating nameplate. IF thatís the intention for it, weíll...

Just more IFs.

With certainty itís an awesome way to troll people.
Misuse - <Legacy> Ebon Hawk

Bonzenaattori's Avatar


Bonzenaattori
02.18.2018 , 09:47 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by ironrd View Post
Translocate...
IF it were an instant cast. So many times Iíve tried to translocate a Huttball carrier to end zone, only for them to throw it at me before channel ended=epic fail.
IF the animation were streamlined to a phase walk level simplicity and speed.
IF like a guardians leap it were a way to bolster protection and mitigate threat. PVP I could see this, PVE? What tank is going to swap places with a dps or healer to manage threat, if it places the dps or healer directly into the bosses cleave?

That would be functional.

So many ifs. The only thing I know for certain is every time somebody interrupts it, it bug my game out and makes my toon go invisible/floating nameplate. IF thatís the intention for it, weíll...

Just more IFs.

With certainty itís an awesome way to troll people.
Even then the skill is useless as hell.
How lazy can you be, to just throw a rudimentary skill in a Tank spec, without a single spec ability (passive) affecting the way it functions, kinda like what they did with Lance and whatnot.
Yeah it's a nice ability, but by itself, it's WORTHLESS

It has too much Paladin syndrome.
Benign presence would protect the player if you transposed them under bosses cleave, as they're immune to damage. But this design/function does not consider both sides in it's design. What if the player is not even aware you're going to Tranpose them? (Kind of like Sage's cancerous pull)
Then only to have the effect cancelled out because the player is too busy hammering buttons that do damage, which would cancel the shield and put them once again, under harms way.
It's annoying, and is a waste of a global cooldown, where you could be doing something more productive like... i dont know, taunting it the boss instead of trying to lower the highest threat target.

I said it once and I'll say it again, if Intercede, Guard, Force Armor, or any other supporting ability in this game, had the same stipulations as Transpose, being minimum range, hard cast time or other lazy effects hard-wired into it's functionality

NOBODY WOULD USE IT!

Not being rude but Bioware Devs, please... don't ever do that again. <3 I say this with love <3

If it were up to me:
And you REALLY wanted to keep the minimum range, the cast time and all the crap, I would design it like this

Transpose
Projects a powerful shield over 6 seconds (Channeled duration)
For the channel, the target under the shield receives a Benign presence, being immune to all damage
While the ability is being channel, the Vanguard's shield is disabled (cannot shield any attacks)
Activating this ability a second time while channelling, will switch the current locations of the Vanguard and shielded ally, but will cancel the shielding effect prematurely

Basically, instead of it being a hard cast swap/switcheroo
The ability is now a channeled skill that projects the Vanguard's skill onto the ally
The ally is immune from all damage for 6 seconds (same duration as GBTF)
You either make the decision to go for the swap, or maintain the shield

This creates a situation where the Vanguard has the ability for decision making
It also creates a variable where co-ordination from people who are willing to communicate will show a gap in performance, which I feel is deserved.
You could potentially make a utility for this skill, increases it's duration, or buffing the shielded ally for the channel or after the swap, encouraging players to consider prematurely ending the shield for extra buffs, etc etc.

Just a thought, consider or dont... ...i dont care
Think I'm kinda done with Vanguards for a while, it's been a great 5 years, but i feel better choice for me is to just move on to something more... enjoyable, if thats even viable
I just feel like this class has been neglected for far too long in the places that matter most, whereas areas that have the least impact are constantly being tinkered with, and even though we have the lowest number of skills in the game, it doesn't look like we'll ever get new things or better stuff to play with. Just replacements of effects that aren't even useless or remotely bad in anyway.
Sticky grenade was fine, it didn't need a change/revamp
Same can be same for Artillery Barrage and Pulse Cannon
These skills were doing fine on their own, they just needed more involvement with class specifications; they were actually made worse in terms of damage output and performance, even if it was technically a better idea, there is nothing of distinction that makes me say "Yeah, that's Vanguard-y", or "Trademark Vanguard!"
It doesn't feel like a Vanguard ability, it just feels like a skill that was polished a little too much, that it doesn't even look like the original concept that it was expected to do and as a result, it doesn't look like it suits the class that uses the effect. The same could be said for Blade Barrage/New Ravage, too much polishing, ends up tarnishing the original item in the first place, it doesn't look like new, it looks like something completely different, and its worse and feels like it doesn't belong there. But then I'm sure theres somebody out there that loves it, and thinks it's a wonderful thing... more power to them