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Dark side REY!!!!


TonyTricicolo's Avatar


TonyTricicolo
08.29.2019 , 01:43 AM | #21
I know there's EU sources on Sheev Palpatine growing up on Naboo, killing his parents and becoming a Sith. I wouldn't mind seeing it visualized in a movie or series. A lot of people dislike the prequel trilogies, but the back story on how Palpatine was able to control the galaxy through deceit and corruption was fantastic. He had the Jedi convinced the Sith were long since gone and he's been sitting right under their noses the entire time. Yoda and Mace were in the same room with in spitting distance and they didn't even sense him. Everyone loves the classic heroes like Luke, Han, and Leia but Palpatine gave substance and purpose to the entire saga. Underrated character and even more so actor(Ian McdDiarmid). One of my favorite.
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Celise's Avatar


Celise
08.29.2019 , 02:02 AM | #22
The Jedi couldn't sense the emperor because the darkness in the force had in effect blinded the Jedi from seeing much in the force. If Sidious had managed this, it almost certainly would of involved his previous apprentice Tyrannus before he was beheaded. The clones all had these biological chips in their heads which could of caused a sort of background hum in the force, much like static, only it is dark side static if you get where i am coming from? So the Kaminoans are complicit in this as much as Tyrannus and Sidious. the CIS forces have spread death and devastation everywhere as well with those droid armies, this contributes to the darkness across the galaxy. You also have Sidious playing games from behind closed doors and wondering how CiS forces are able to intercept Republic forces at times.

If you can imagine it, it would be like a very low laying thick fog in the morning with the sun beating down, but you can't see anything past your hands, and you have ear plugs in your ears and the sunlight is making it difficult to see where you are going in this fog, you feel neurally cold because of the fog is emcompassing you. it is something like that, the Jedi aren't aware of what they are sensing, they know something is out there but can't do much better than that.

CrazyScruffy's Avatar


CrazyScruffy
08.29.2019 , 12:50 PM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by TonyTricicolo View Post
I read a theory that Palpatine targeted extremely strong force sensitive individuals to be potential vessels for his goal to live forever. He force impregnated Schmi to give birth to Anakin so he could be one of those vessels. After Anakin betrayed him he had to resort to another host. Likely Rey may have been a target. Palpatine is currently in limbo waiting. I think the trailer shows a partial transference of him taking over Rey's body. Rey inevitably turns to the dark side and Kylo back to the light. Kylo kills Rey, takes on the name of Skywalker, and movie ends.
Let's not forget that Disney has already laid the groundwork of the name "Skywalker" in the book Thrawn: Alliances (canon).

Spoiler


so in short The Rise of Skywalker is just going to be the name of the next wave of force users in the galaxy

SushaBrancaleone's Avatar


SushaBrancaleone
08.29.2019 , 12:51 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by Celise View Post
The Jedi couldn't sense the emperor because the darkness in the force had in effect blinded the Jedi from seeing much in the force. If Sidious had managed this, it almost certainly would of involved his previous apprentice Tyrannus before he was beheaded. The clones all had these biological chips in their heads which could of caused a sort of background hum in the force, much like static, only it is dark side static if you get where i am coming from? So the Kaminoans are complicit in this as much as Tyrannus and Sidious. the CIS forces have spread death and devastation everywhere as well with those droid armies, this contributes to the darkness across the galaxy. You also have Sidious playing games from behind closed doors and wondering how CiS forces are able to intercept Republic forces at times.

If you can imagine it, it would be like a very low laying thick fog in the morning with the sun beating down, but you can't see anything past your hands, and you have ear plugs in your ears and the sunlight is making it difficult to see where you are going in this fog, you feel neurally cold because of the fog is emcompassing you. it is something like that, the Jedi aren't aware of what they are sensing, they know something is out there but can't do much better than that.
I have come to see this as a longer lasting process.
Yoda's confrontation with the Wills in clone wars, specifically the 'you are the beast and the beast is you' makes me think more of a process lasting centuries (all the way back to Darth Bane) besides Lucas has affirmed, and especially SWTOR players who have an 'example of a less corrupt republic - (sort of) that most of the prequel jedi's are made to be seen as arrogant or not a '100% hero material'. basically most of them aren't the good guys, its a tragedy in the making and all involved are culpable to a degree. Palpatine does, imo, accelerate a lot the process by providing military jobs to most jedi yes, but this has happened before without in itself 'blinding the high council to the force'

Celise's Avatar


Celise
08.29.2019 , 01:04 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by SushaBrancaleone View Post
I have come to see this as a longer lasting process.
Yoda's confrontation with the Wills in clone wars, specifically the 'you are the beast and the beast is you' makes me think more of a process lasting centuries (all the way back to Darth Bane) besides Lucas has affirmed, and especially SWTOR players who have an 'example of a less corrupt republic - (sort of) that most of the prequel jedi's are made to be seen as arrogant or not a '100% hero material'. basically most of them aren't the good guys, its a tragedy in the making and all involved are culpable to a degree. Palpatine does, imo, accelerate a lot the process by providing military jobs to most jedi yes, but this has happened before without in itself 'blinding the high council to the force'
I'm only going by what was said by Yoda in the clone wars, that the darkness permiates everything and they can't see much of what is going on. they are worried by what it all means, but i believe they have been more blinded by the darkside than they are willing to accept or admit to. These Jedi in this era are proud but stupid, they fight but not having the information they need on hand, it will get them killed knowing little to nothing of their foes. Of course, when order 66 was enacted, Yoda must of sensed the darkside consuming everything at that point, like that fog i've mentioned was just above his head until it landed on the ground and he started walking around in that fog not knowing where he was going.

AhsokaTanorules's Avatar


AhsokaTanorules
08.29.2019 , 06:18 PM | #26
Making the character dark and edgy does not make her any less lame. Like all ST characters she is still a lame duck.

DavidAtkinson's Avatar


DavidAtkinson
08.30.2019 , 11:44 PM | #27
Dark side Rey is another fluke meant to create hype and speculation.. Nothing more. It's the same as luke's famous sentence : " the jedi must end" Another oh my god moment analyzed to death by nutters on youtube and turned out to be nothing special at all...

It will be the same case here. Another 5 *10 seconds vision in the movie....

I don't fall for these things anymore.
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OlBuzzard's Avatar


OlBuzzard
08.31.2019 , 12:20 PM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by Celise View Post
I don't believe he truely hated the Jedi, i think that was more an easier excuse to swallow than admitting he hated himself for being not only so weak in the knees regarding love, but he allowed himself to be twisted up so much like that and after what he did and realised he became a monster after being sealed inside that suit, he started feeding off that fear and hatred of himself that he got used to it by blaming others for his own failure as a means of coping with the situation until he finally came to terms with himself by saving Luke from the one being who poisoned his body, mind and soul that whole time and eventuually used his own weakness of love as a strength for once and saw his way out.

It is ironic in what drove anakin insane is what helped him remember he was a good person, so driven was he by his passion and his empathy. It was always there, it never left him even when he did go to the dark side, by showing genuine concern for Luke numerous times through the films.

Sidious was way too trusting for a Sith, he either didn't care or didn't consider his apprentice Vader much of a threat because he believed his apprentice had enough fear in him that he couldn't strike his master. That was his biggest mistake, arrogance or not, it seems Sidious didn't learn everything about being a Sith, and key to being a sith is having a healthy amount of paranoia because people are trying to kill the Sith for being a Sith.
I agree up to a point...

I realize that it is jut my take on the personality of Palpatine… BUT IMO... his success and his ability to "foresee" the future made him careless and he believed that he was invincible. (The same way that Snook did). Palpatine believed that he had foreseen Luke as his new apprentice and was (supposedly) more powerful than his father: Anakin. And just after Luke defeats Vedar.. and the line right after Luke refuses to kill his father Anakin (at the instruction of the Palpatine …)

" If you will not be turned .. then you will be destroyed..."

And that famous line "You will pay for your lack of vision". Palpatine did not think it was possible for Luke to survive the encounter...

Palpatine believed that he could not be destroyed. IMO... that is why he makes a return in the next movie.

In other words.. I agree with everything else, except the emperors attitude... Which (IMO) was one of overconfidence as he really did believe that he had foreseen so much that he already knew the outcome. He really believe that he could not be defeated.
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Celise's Avatar


Celise
08.31.2019 , 01:12 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by OlBuzzard View Post
I agree up to a point...

I realize that it is jut my take on the personality of Palpatine… BUT IMO... his success and his ability to "foresee" the future made him careless and he believed that he was invincible. (The same way that Snook did). Palpatine believed that he had foreseen Luke as his new apprentice and was (supposedly) more powerful than his father: Anakin. And just after Luke defeats Vedar.. and the line right after Luke refuses to kill his father Anakin (at the instruction of the Palpatine …)

" If you will not be turned .. then you will be destroyed..."

And that famous line "You will pay for your lack of vision". Palpatine did not think it was possible for Luke to survive the encounter...

Palpatine believed that he could not be destroyed. IMO... that is why he makes a return in the next movie.

In other words.. I agree with everything else, except the emperors attitude... Which (IMO) was one of overconfidence as he really did believe that he had foreseen so much that he already knew the outcome. He really believe that he could not be defeated.
A leader needs to know their own strengths and weaknesses and one who ignores theirs is always going to be defeated because they refuse to take responsibility to see it. be it overconfidence or simply because they were too trusting which are both on the same side of the same coin: a lack of concern. Palpantine didn't heed enough caution and paid for it where he was blind.

so we are arguing about the same thing and agree that he didn't heed enough caution towards his own weaknesses. With that stated i'm gonna shut this down and let the other posters get this thread back on track.

OlBuzzard's Avatar


OlBuzzard
08.31.2019 , 01:24 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by Celise View Post
A leader needs to know their own strengths and weaknesses and one who ignores theirs is always going to be defeated because they refuse to take responsibility to see it. be it overconfidence or simply because they were too trusting which are both on the same side of the same coin: a lack of concern. Palpantine didn't heed enough caution and paid for it where he was blind.

so we are arguing about the same thing and agree that he didn't heed enough caution towards his own weaknesses. With that stated i'm gonna shut this down and let the other posters get this thread back on track.
Agreed on both counts !!

That said: you're not really off too far discussing Palpatine since he is making a come back. To what end none of us are certain. His influence / control is probably similar as Snokes. Therefore, it can easily be theorized that what is shown on the trailer as "Dark Rey" could easily be from an experience similar to Dagobah (with Luke) or a "vision influenced by Palpatine".

In either case: understanding Palpatine is not too far OT... but could be if not carefully guided back to it's original intent for subject discussion.

OH.. last note for a bit: I did move the new trailer carefully frame by frame where the close ups were clear enough.. And I did NOT notice the "Sith eyes" that are typically present with the Emperor, Anakin Snooke … etc.. etc !

edit: I really wasn't trying to sound argumentative. You present some very valid and interesting points.
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