I've played the game since beta. I've played MMOs for years... mostly tanks or melee dps. I wouldn't be posting this thread if I hadn't finally had enough.

 

I have two 50s, a guardian and a shadow. I have several 40+ toons, including a trooper and a BH. Most of the other classes I have to around level 30. Out of every class I've played, in this game and in other MMOs, the vig guardian is the most worthless by far in PvP. My guardian is in almost full BM, and I get ROFLstomped by almost any other class in open world. In warzones, I have to hang around the fringes of fights because I'll die in seconds if I try to, you know, actually melee people. By contrast, my shadow has two pieces of battlemaster and the rest champ/cent (old school). He'll shred most classes 1v1. I'll always do more damage with him, and I don't notice that big a difference in survivability.

 

However, when compared to my trooper... my vanguard is assault spec and he DESTROYS everything. I can comfortably kite one or two people in PvP whilst putting out a huge amount of damage. I'll rarely get anything below top damage in warzones but more importantly, I can kill people fast, from range. And let's not even get into the other classes... mercs, sorcs, snipers...

 

The way I see it, there's several obvious problems with this class.

 

One: low survivability. We have the worst defensive cooldowns in the game. Heavy armour is next to useless in the SWTOR universe. In other MMOs, mdps can stack parry/dodge or other defensive skills to have some decent defence. In warhammer, they can use defensive sets whilst still putting out some mean damage. Sure, full offensive mdps will still die a lot, but they'll be doing enough damage to counter that... which leads to:

 

Two: low damage. Okay, the damage isn't that bad when you get into your rotation and get a dispatch off. But almost every other class can do more damage, usually from range. What we have is the sustained damage of a tank but without the survivability of a tank.

 

Three: virtually no CC. We have an aoe snare and a channeled (!) stun. Oh, and that crappy aoe mesmerise. Mdps need a decent base stun, or positional even, but something you can actually use WHILST ATTACKING, not INSTEAD of attacking... I know, tank spec removes the channel... that doesn't help us.

 

Four: range dominates. This isn't a problem with the class, per se, but the game mechanics. In other games, range classes are weak and easy to kill. Why? Because they put out lots of damage from range... in this game, they're not easy to kill (unless they're stupid) but do put out lots of damage at range. Have your cake and eat it, etc.

 

Anyway, vig guardian is, to me, broken. And I'm sure someone will tell me I'm "doing it wrong" or whatever. I bet you can do just fine with a vig guardian if you have guard and heals... but you shouldn't need to rely on other players to stand a chance in PvP.

Four: range dominates. This isn't a problem with the class, per se, but the game mechanics.

 

^ This. Agree 100%.

 

Range class plays much more easy.

^ This. Agree 100%.

 

Range class plays much more easy.

 

It's a huge problem. Like I said in my original post, I'm primarily a melee sort of guy. Most of my characters have been tanks and melee dps. And yet, in this game I can pick up a ranged class (assault vanguard, yes they do have some melee capabilities too...) and destroy people with it. As a ranged class, you can perma-kite melee thanks to no immunity or diminishing returns on snares, many of which have no cooldowns/trigger off procs. This is on top of the fact that ranged classes do lots of damage and still aren't that squishy in the first place.

 

Ranged only lose to melee if they're a) clueless or b) distracted.

I play Vigilance Guardian since the beginning of the game and despite what you say it is an awesome class.

Not the league of Sentinels or Tank Shadows - but definately very decent.

 

I had designed the tree differently tho.

Focused defense should have been something like +15%/+30% deflection -

maybe even some "backlash" damage attached to it - like rebuke -- Shien is an agressive blaster deflection stance after all.

 

Three: virtually no CC. We have an aoe snare and a channeled (!) stun. Oh, and that crappy aoe mesmerise. Mdps need a decent base stun, or positional even, but something you can actually use WHILST ATTACKING, not INSTEAD of attacking... I know, tank spec removes the channel... that doesn't help us.

 

The above point is the only part where i agree with you.

I wish Hilt Strike was a base Guardian ability.

I am biased tho as i love the animation and the sound of Hilt Strike

 

Maybe Vigilance is not for you and a Defense/Vigilance hybrid would suit you better ?

Edited June 3, 2012 by Sabredance

I plays with Sage - Telekinetic DPS - it's absolutely easy, spam 3-buttons and kill at 30 m. anyone very well. There is no need to be at 6-m distance and always turn to faced to enemy.

 

But storyline of Jedi knight quite amazing, like KotOR 3, and I still like my Guardian and plays in PVP, but its not so easy and not so fun...

i aggree,, though i dont know why i keep doing it to myself. keep thinking that one day when i'm in full WH gear with augments that i might actually survive longer then two seconds in a 1v2 but who am i kidding.. my lvl 11 senti was MOWING down lvl 40s.. it was actually a LOL moment. if something doesn't happen in 1.3,, i'm afraid this guard will go the way of bret farve.

I've played the game since beta. I've played MMOs for years... mostly tanks or melee dps. I wouldn't be posting this thread if I hadn't finally had enough.

 

I have two 50s, a guardian and a shadow. I have several 40+ toons, including a trooper and a BH. Most of the other classes I have to around level 30. Out of every class I've played, in this game and in other MMOs, the vig guardian is the most worthless by far in PvP. My guardian is in almost full BM, and I get ROFLstomped by almost any other class in open world. In warzones, I have to hang around the fringes of fights because I'll die in seconds if I try to, you know, actually melee people. By contrast, my shadow has two pieces of battlemaster and the rest champ/cent (old school). He'll shred most classes 1v1. I'll always do more damage with him, and I don't notice that big a difference in survivability.

 

However, when compared to my trooper... my vanguard is assault spec and he DESTROYS everything. I can comfortably kite one or two people in PvP whilst putting out a huge amount of damage. I'll rarely get anything below top damage in warzones but more importantly, I can kill people fast, from range. And let's not even get into the other classes... mercs, sorcs, snipers...

 

The way I see it, there's several obvious problems with this class.

 

One: low survivability. We have the worst defensive cooldowns in the game. Heavy armour is next to useless in the SWTOR universe. In other MMOs, mdps can stack parry/dodge or other defensive skills to have some decent defence. In warhammer, they can use defensive sets whilst still putting out some mean damage. Sure, full offensive mdps will still die a lot, but they'll be doing enough damage to counter that... which leads to:

 

Two: low damage. Okay, the damage isn't that bad when you get into your rotation and get a dispatch off. But almost every other class can do more damage, usually from range. What we have is the sustained damage of a tank but without the survivability of a tank.

 

Three: virtually no CC. We have an aoe snare and a channeled (!) stun. Oh, and that crappy aoe mesmerise. Mdps need a decent base stun, or positional even, but something you can actually use WHILST ATTACKING, not INSTEAD of attacking... I know, tank spec removes the channel... that doesn't help us.

 

Four: range dominates. This isn't a problem with the class, per se, but the game mechanics. In other games, range classes are weak and easy to kill. Why? Because they put out lots of damage from range... in this game, they're not easy to kill (unless they're stupid) but do put out lots of damage at range. Have your cake and eat it, etc.

 

Anyway, vig guardian is, to me, broken. And I'm sure someone will tell me I'm "doing it wrong" or whatever. I bet you can do just fine with a vig guardian if you have guard and heals... but you shouldn't need to rely on other players to stand a chance in PvP.

 

I have been screaming this for a long time now, I truly feel that the Guardian class was not well thought out and they for some reason thought that heavy armor would off set this but as we know it's worthless.

I posted my idea on how to fix the guardian in my other post but ill share my ideas here in case some people didn't read it.

 

a. Guardians NEED a passive combat heal when CCed (like the WoW warriors) to help counter there lack of ranged and escapes.

b. Guardians need a saber reflect skill (spell reflect) a skill that reflects all damage back to the attacker.

c. Guardians need a single target snare tied to one of there major attacks example Blade Storm.

d. Guardians need to have a added damage or damage over time effect tied to there no cost attack to help keep a small amount of damage flowing when kited.

 

Lets take a look at some of the WoW abilities that are given to there Warrior class to help them counter kiting and lack of escapes:

 

1. Blood Craze, http://www.wowhead.com/spell=16487

After taking any damage, you have a 10% chance to regenerate 1/2/3% of your total health over 5 sec.

 

2. Second Wind, http://www.wowhead.com/spell=29834

Whenever you are struck by a Stun or Immobilize effect you generate 10 Rage and 2/5% of your total health over 10 sec.

 

3. Spell Reflection, http://www.wowhead.com/spell=23920

15 Rage

Instant cast

Requires Shields

Requires Battle Stance, Defensive Stance

Raise your shield, reflecting the next spell cast on you. Lasts 5 sec.

Edited June 3, 2012 by Nijraw

 

Anyway, vig guardian is, to me, broken. And I'm sure someone will tell me I'm "doing it wrong" or whatever. I bet you can do just fine with a vig guardian if you have guard and heals... but you shouldn't need to rely on other players to stand a chance in PvP.

 

Warzone PvP is about teamwork and not being the soloist hero of say. I can take out healers 1 on 1 in BM gear with power stims and cube.

 

Ranged will dominate WZ's if you let them. Force Leap + Push will often remove a Scorc or Operative from the fight which helps the team.

 

In Vigilence we can still AoE taunt and help the group.

 

The class is a single target damage class with DoTs. With Saber Throw,, Jump and Plasma Brand you will stop people steathing etc.

 

With buffed Dispatch I have taken out healers who have guard up from tanks.

 

If you want to AoE damage with some better CC then roll Focus but Vigilence is from from worthless in PvP.

I really like my BM Vig Guardian alt. I run him in Soresu, though, and dedicate my time to protecting healers and we are very good in that role. Guardian Leap + Guard + AOE Taunt means that the guy you've saving gets a 55% damage reduction for 6s plus half of the remaining 45% goes to you: that really is top of the line defensively. With 51% armour mitigation you don't go down quickly when getting hit and can still comfortably do 250-350k damage while doing 100k + protection.

 

Out of all your complaints the only one I'd really agree with is that Focused Defense needs further improvement so that it doesn't drain so much focus - although having it running while damage is getting bounced to you from Guard is a really good way to offset that damage. Saberward should also be reduced to a 2 minute CD instead of 3.

 

In shien I can do very competitive damage (just not Pyro-level, but Pyro needs toning down) and a Master Strike-Overhead Slash-Crit Bladestorm-Master Strike-Dispatch combo is actually going to kill most people inside 10s.

 

We need small defensive tweaks, not a complete overall.

Vigilance Guardians don't need any of the things that you're talking about here. They do great damage, have excellent durability, they have great utility and awesome versatility. If you're using the right gear (Full Battle Master Vindicator Gear) then you'll do just fine. If you really wanna fine tune your character then go get the green/green/green matrix cube. I was tearing it up pre 1.2 with my vigilance guardian. They buffed us in 1.2 in a lot of ways. The Jedi Knight class got better in general, the Vigilance skill tree was fine tuned and got a series of small buffs and they redistributed the stats on our gear that made us even better. All of that made us much MUCH more playable. I started 1.2 with full battle master and played until I got full War Hero just yesterday and since the 1.2 buffs playing my Vigilance Guardian has been an entirely pleasant experience. Instead of just asking for more buffs you should be looking for advice and thinking about what you're doing wrong. If you just plain think the class is too tough to play then just don't play it.

Vigilance Guardians don't need any of the things that you're talking about here. They do great damage, have excellent durability, they have great utility and awesome versatility. If you're using the right gear (Full Battle Master Vindicator Gear) then you'll do just fine. If you really wanna fine tune your character then go get the green/green/green matrix cube. I was tearing it up pre 1.2 with my vigilance guardian. They buffed us in 1.2 in a lot of ways. The Jedi Knight class got better in general, the Vigilance skill tree was fine tuned and got a series of small buffs and they redistributed the stats on our gear that made us even better. All of that made us much MUCH more playable. I started 1.2 with full battle master and played until I got full War Hero just yesterday and since the 1.2 buffs playing my Vigilance Guardian has been an entirely pleasant experience. Instead of just asking for more buffs you should be looking for advice and thinking about what you're doing wrong. If you just plain think the class is too tough to play then just don't play it.

 

You, sir, have no idea of what you are talking about. Sentinals got 'buffed' in 1.2, not the knight class in general. Guardian's took a hammering in 1.2, and deservedly so. Some people were abusing the talent tree features of the game. Now, as a player, I can agree with doing that. After all, who doesn't want to see what they can do with a given class? But, the extent of the 'roll-back' of guardian abilities, and the hammering they took, it's almost possible that they have been hammered into oblivion. Right now, as it stands, there is no point trying to play a Guardian as anything other than a single player 'toy'/ 'novelty' class. They are in no way fit for raiding, H/M's, PVP, or any other type of group operation.

 

Not whilst there are Vanguard Tanks that will do a better job of holding aggro, have a better base Endurance and do a better job of dealing damage.

 

Let's face it. Jedi Guardian is a dead class come 1.3, when people can and will advertise that they are looking for Vanguard or shadow tanks only.

You, sir, have no idea of what you are talking about. Sentinals got 'buffed' in 1.2, not the knight class in general. Guardian's took a hammering in 1.2, and deservedly so. Some people were abusing the talent tree features of the game.

 

It sounds like you might have played a Focus Guardian. We're talking specifically about the Vigilance Guardian. Say what you will about Focus Guardians and the changes that occurred in that skill tree but as it concerns the Vigilance Guardian the skill tree got buffed. There's no two ways around it. The only thing that can be seen as a "nerf" to the Vigilance skill tree is the loss of the Protector ability. But that wasn't a class critical ability anyway so it really makes no matter. Here's what Vigilance Guardians got in 1.2.

 

1) Sundering Throw moved to Vigilance tree. Reduced cool down and up to 2 stacks of sundering. Makes our rotation easier because we can immediately plasma brand upon entering the fight.

 

2) Commanding Awe gives 15% extra damage reduction while focused defense is active and got moved lower in the skill tree. This is great because when I'm playing huttball I can switch to soresu form and pop focused defense and now I have 67& damage reduction and a self heal. As you might imagine that makes me very hard to kill. It's also great that commanding awe got moved down because hybrid players have easier access to this key ability.

 

3) Master Strike deals an extra 15% damage. With Zen Strike I can spam master strike and now it deals more damage than before.

 

4) Master Strike deals an extra 8% damage with Master Focus. Bringing my spammable master strike to a total of 23% more damage than it was doing pre 1.2.

 

5) Master Strike is now uninterruptable. If you want to keep from getting hit by the last hit of master strike then you have to blow a stun, a vanish, force speed or cc break to keep from getting hit with it. That's a huge buff. Stagger + Unremmiting + Uninterruptable master strike means that unless you have a Vanish or Force Speed you're guaranteed to get hit with all 3 hits of Master Strike. And in as short as 9 seconds (with Zen Strike) I'll do it again.

 

6) Focused Defense. It's great for Soresu form Guardians who are running defense or hybrid defense/vigilance and can get 50%+ damage reduction and a self heal. It aids in survival by quite a great deal. Not so great for Focus Guardians, which is what I thin you played.

 

7) Dispatch available at 30% instead of 20%. As I said before ALL Jedi Knights got this ability. It matters more for the Vigilance Guardian than for any other Jedi Knight specifically because when I Dispatch someone I have a 91% critical hit chance. When I Dispatch someone I will more often than not hit them for more health than they could possibly have below 30%. Which ends up netting me a lot of killing blows.

 

So yeah. You sound like you played a Focus Guardian. These are all buffs that the "Vig Guardian" got. And believe me, these are buffs. If you disagree that these are anything but buffs then I'm afraid I'm not the one of the two of us who doesn't know what he's talking about.

You, sir, have no idea of what you are talking about. Sentinals got 'buffed' in 1.2, not the knight class in general. Guardian's took a hammering in 1.2, and deservedly so. Some people were abusing the talent tree features of the game. Now, as a player, I can agree with doing that. After all, who doesn't want to see what they can do with a given class? But, the extent of the 'roll-back' of guardian abilities, and the hammering they took, it's almost possible that they have been hammered into oblivion. Right now, as it stands, there is no point trying to play a Guardian as anything other than a single player 'toy'/ 'novelty' class. They are in no way fit for raiding, H/M's, PVP, or any other type of group operation.

 

Not whilst there are Vanguard Tanks that will do a better job of holding aggro, have a better base Endurance and do a better job of dealing damage.

 

Let's face it. Jedi Guardian is a dead class come 1.3, when people can and will advertise that they are looking for Vanguard or shadow tanks only.

 

PvP with a guardian? Hope you don't like having fun...at all... PvP with any other class...because at this time guardians/juggs are junk unless your pure dps focus spec. How fun is that, you get to only play your class one way with one spec/gear doing one thing....dps...awesome!

 

PvE.....guardians defense speced would be my top pick for most fights. By far the best damage taking class with the best CDs and set bonus. Clearly if you dont think a guardian is good at PvE you have not played one competitively. Aggro is not a problem at all vs. a single target, in fact I think they are top. Now vs many targets I agree we suck.

PvP with a guardian? Hope you don't like having fun...at all... PvP with any other class...because at this time guardians/juggs are junk unless your pure dps focus spec. How fun is that, you get to only play your class one way with one spec/gear doing one thing....dps...awesome!

 

PvE.....guardians defense speced would be my top pick for most fights. By far the best damage taking class with the best CDs and set bonus. Clearly if you dont think a guardian is good at PvE you have not played one competitively. Aggro is not a problem at all vs. a single target, in fact I think they are top. Now vs many targets I agree we suck.

 

Ask sages/sorcs and commandos/mercs if it's fun for them to pvp

Vigilance Guardians don't need any of the things that you're talking about here. They do great damage, have excellent durability, they have great utility and awesome versatility. If you're using the right gear (Full Battle Master Vindicator Gear) then you'll do just fine. If you really wanna fine tune your character then go get the green/green/green matrix cube. I was tearing it up pre 1.2 with my vigilance guardian. They buffed us in 1.2 in a lot of ways. The Jedi Knight class got better in general, the Vigilance skill tree was fine tuned and got a series of small buffs and they redistributed the stats on our gear that made us even better. All of that made us much MUCH more playable. I started 1.2 with full battle master and played until I got full War Hero just yesterday and since the 1.2 buffs playing my Vigilance Guardian has been an entirely pleasant experience. Instead of just asking for more buffs you should be looking for advice and thinking about what you're doing wrong. If you just plain think the class is too tough to play then just don't play it.

 

I'm not doing anything wrong, actually. The class IS broken and most people agree with me. Just because you get lucky or have some healers behind you, doesn't mean it's okay. I've explained that I know what I'm doing and can do very well with almost every other class... the class AND the game have big design flaws when it comes to melee.

The class IS broken and most people agree with me.

 

Most people?Source?

 

I receive 2-4 MVP votes every match for a reason.

And i think its not pity because my class is broken

Edited June 4, 2012 by Sabredance

I'm not doing anything wrong, actually. The class IS broken and most people agree with me. Just because you get lucky or have some healers behind you, doesn't mean it's okay. I've explained that I know what I'm doing and can do very well with almost every other class... the class AND the game have big design flaws when it comes to melee.

 

No, melees are pretty strong now thanks to the expertise buff. Ask any sages/sorcs and commandos/mercs if they can facetanks melees now.

I'm not doing anything wrong, actually. The class IS broken and most people agree with me. Just because you get lucky or have some healers behind you, doesn't mean it's okay. I've explained that I know what I'm doing and can do very well with almost every other class... the class AND the game have big design flaws when it comes to melee.

 

Haha... I got lucky for the past 5 months straight since I switched to Vigilance? Alright, that seems logical. I love how people who are bad assume that people who play successfully with a class must be lucky, on a server full of "noobs" or just any other excuse that places the blame for their failure anywhere but firmly on their own shoulders. Make no mistake, that is exactly where the fault lies.

 

I will say that I am currently leveling a Vanguard DPS and it is significantly easier. Being able to hit anyone within a 30 meter radiuse of myself is a pretty handy ability. The damage is great too and the rotation is EXTREMELY simple. But easier does not equal better. At level 50 there are things that my Vigilance Guardian can do that level 50 Assault Vanguards cant. For example...

 

1) In voidstar, wait until the enemy team is crossing the bridge. Force Leap into the middle of them, AoE stun, target the healer and then Force Push him off the bridge. Now the initial push that the attacker makes in Voidstar is down one healer. That's a huge advantage.

 

2) Huttball. Vigilance Guardians are the undisputed kings of huttball. As long as other players get into position a Vigilance Guardian can completely circumvent all of the walk ways. If any enemy is unfortunate nice enough to be in the end zone then a Vigilance Guardian can leap to him and walk very casually into the end zone with our additional 20% damage reduction and 4 seconds of CC immunity. Vanguards, or any other class for that matter, CAN'T do that. Whats even more fun is Force Pushing an enemy player into the End Zone and then Force Leaping to them.

 

And those are just a couple of game winning things that a Vigilance Guardian can do.

 

The damage on a properly geared Vigilance is comparable to most classes and I'm quite capable of soloing any other class provided me and the peron I'm fighting are of the same skill level and equally geared. If I outgear my opponent then I will maul them regardless of class. If I'm we're equally geared then it comes down to skill. That's the way it should be.

 

Like I said, if you're unsuccessful with this class then go back to rolling your face across your keyboard with a Vanguard or something. Just because you have to use a wider array of abilities to be succesful with a Guardian doesn't mean the class is broken. It just means that you either L2P and succeed or QQ on the forums.

Vigilence is a playable skill tree, and it is better than some people whine about if you know how to play it, however Vigilence Guardian and guardians in general have some rather telling flaws compared to Shadows and Vanguards.

 

Shadows have their nice little self-heal, which is extremely useful for a tank, they also do more damage as a DPS. Vanguards do more damage overall than Guardians as well (barring burst damage which is only in focus tree), and they have better defensive perks than we do.

 

The change in 1.2 was a total joke, Focus Guardians got nerfed, I would argue Vigilence Guardians got buffed and nerfed at the same time.

 

Focused Defense is completely worthless from my standpoint since I rarely pull aggie from a Tank, and I only have to worry about it when the tank is a Guardian. Focused defense is not a heal, it is a threat dump, when it is working perfectly you get no hp recovery. I don't know what all a Focus Guardian generates as far as threat, but I don't generate enough to usually worry.

 

The reason for the Nerf was because a hybrid can out-tank the tank tree, well it wasn't that Vigilence was OPed, it was the tank tree was a total joke.

 

Yes Guardian is a workable class, but we have some serious issues that still need to be addressed.

 

Vigilence Issue:

Shien -- needs to have a perk that is specific to this saber style (sorseu in Defense tree gets defensive perks increased from skill tree, Shii-Cho gets armor penetration increase from focus tree), I would recommend a deflection ability that does damage to enemies targetting the guardian while additionally lowering the threat generation (only when shien form is active), which fits canon lore.

 

Guardian and Sith Juggernaut Issue:

Defense from attacks should be boosted from the base of 5% to probably the same that shadow gets. We're Jedi for crying out loud, and we're supposed to be used to people shooting at us, I think we would know how to deflect blaster fire than hermit wannabes running around in dresses while waiving their hands around in the air.

Edited June 5, 2012 by GarfieldJL

lol at all the QQs in this thread. I am one of the top pvpers on my server and I do well playing in rage or vengeance spec as both are great and have their own uses in pvp. This really is a L2P issue if you are that unsuccessful with a jugg/guardian. Not only do I do great in warzones but I'm either the best or 2nd best raid dps in my guild which is on the last boss of HM EC and I'm one of the best tanks in my guild as well though they prefer to have me dps since we already have some solid tanks. I've had no problem whatsoever doing all end game content as a jugg as dps or tanking and I do just as well as any marauder, powertech, or assassin in warzones but when it comes to huttball I'm the mvp on my server as a vengeance jugg.

the ONLY glaring issue for guardians is the defense tree. BW will need to work on that tree to make it desirable for both PVE and PVP. Other than that, they finally balanced the class like it should be. They don't need to buff us because that would make us OP nor do they need to nerf us (lol). There is no way that someone with half a brain cannot be competitive in pre-50 and lvl 50 WZs.

 

By going focus, you trade survivability for extra damage. Yes, they are squishier than vigilance guardians (but less than lolspamHIB-assault vanguards) but you put pressure on your opponents with your 6k+ crit force sweeps. Working as intended. Even if they got slightly nerfed, they are still powerful.

 

Shien has 6% extra damage, 1 focus refunds on abilities and 1 focus every 6 seconds when getting hit. Is that not enough, Garfield?

 

As for DPS shadows, I guess some of you don't bother reading their forums. Aside from their burst, infiltration shadows have little to no utility and they are squishy. As for balance shadows, their DOTs really hurt and they are a bit less squishier than inil shadows but balance sages can do the same thing on top of having heals, bubbles, force quake and 30m range. DOT spec trees/classes almost always top the damage chart but that doesn't mean they are more useful or better than non-dot specs/classes.

Edited June 5, 2012 by Darkshadz

the ONLY glaring issue for guardians is the defense tree. BW will need to work on that tree to make it desirable for both PVE and PVP. Other than that, they finally balanced the class like it should be. They don't need to buff us because that would make us OP nor do they need to nerf us (lol). There is no way that someone with half a brain cannot be competitive in pre-50 and lvl 50 WZs.

 

By going focus, you trade survivability for extra damage. Yes, they are squishier than vigilance guardians (but less than lolspamHIB-assault vanguards) but you put pressure on your opponents with your 6k+ crit force sweeps. Working as intended. Even if they got slightly nerfed, they are still powerful.

 

Shien has 6% extra damage, 1 focus refunds on abilities and 1 focus every 6 seconds when getting hit. Is that not enough, Garfield?

 

As for DPS shadows, I guess some of you don't bother reading their forums. Aside from their burst, infiltration shadows have little to no utility and they are squishy. As for balance shadows, their DOTs really hurt and they are a bit less squishier than inil shadows but balance sages can do the same thing on top of having heals, bubbles, force quake and 30m range. DOT spec trees/classes almost always top the damage chart but that doesn't mean they are more useful or better than non-dot specs/classes.

 

Seriously, there are quite a few Vigilence guardians that just use Sorseu and don't even bother with Shien, does that give you any ideas?

 

If you bother to look at the Defense and Focus trees, my point is rather self-explanatory. There are additional perks in the Defense tree for using Sorseu like further boosts to shielding, defense, etc., so we have added perks in the Defense tree to use Sorseu on top of the stance's perks. Look at the Focus tree, there are skills that add additional perks for using Shii-cho, some are defensive, some reduce a target's armor, etc.

 

Name 1 skill in the Vigilence Tree that is Shien specific!

 

You can't because there isn't one. If we ever get dual spec, there will be absolutely no point whatsoever in using shien because you would be ignoring the perks you get from the other skill trees.

 

So actually Vigilence needs some reworking and shien needs a buff.

Name 1 skill in the Vigilence Tree that is Shien specific!.

 

Narrowed Focus - Generates 1 additional focus when taking area effect damage while Shien Form is active.

Shien has massive Focus.

That is the big benefit.

 

With single saber mastery accessible to all trees Shien lost an edge but massive Focus is still a blast.

Edited June 6, 2012 by Sabredance

Seriously, there are quite a few Vigilence guardians that just use Sorseu and don't even bother with Shien, does that give you any ideas?

 

If you bother to look at the Defense and Focus trees, my point is rather self-explanatory. There are additional perks in the Defense tree for using Sorseu like further boosts to shielding, defense, etc., so we have added perks in the Defense tree to use Sorseu on top of the stance's perks. Look at the Focus tree, there are skills that add additional perks for using Shii-cho, some are defensive, some reduce a target's armor, etc.

 

Name 1 skill in the Vigilence Tree that is Shien specific!

 

You can't because there isn't one. If we ever get dual spec, there will be absolutely no point whatsoever in using shien because you would be ignoring the perks you get from the other skill trees.

 

So actually Vigilence needs some reworking and shien needs a buff.

 

They use the soresu stance because either they are tank/hybrid spec, carrying the ball, guarding a healer or are under heavy focus fire and want extra protection. If you are full vigilance and only use the soresu stance, you're gimping your dps.