to get into a HM? 90-120 mins all the tme...this is stupid. even wow does is better

Probably a couple reasons:

1. During the work day is not gonna have great pops

2. You are a dps, if you reroll a tank or healer it'll go much faster

3. Add in running a tactical as well? Those pop quite quickly.

4. Join a guild and get some guildies to run with you

I agree that it is pretty annoying, that's why usually when I get hit with the FP bug (which admittedly isn't often anymore) I will usually run it on my healer or tank, or do it with my guild. But the poor ratio between dps and tanks/heals is why they introduced tacticals as they are (not requiring the trinity) so that is probably you best bet to do at least something.

to get into a HM? 90-120 mins all the tme...this is stupid. even wow does is better

Because WoW has an incentive system whereby underrepresented roles get a goodie bag (containing random stuff; nothing game breaking but enough to entice players to queue as tanks and/or healers: rare - mount or pet, uncommon - uncut gem or other professions materials, or a flask, common - potions) for queuing and completing a dungeon. I have been advocating this for SWTOR for a long time now. It works really well in WoW.

Because WoW has an incentive system whereby underrepresented roles get a goodie bag

Also, don't their dungeons require 3 dps rather than the 2 dps required for a flashpoint?

Seems a better ratio, imo.

Because WoW has an incentive system whereby underrepresented roles get a goodie bag (containing random stuff; nothing game breaking but enough to entice players to queue as tanks and/or healers: rare - mount or pet, uncommon - uncut gem or other professions materials, or a flask, common - potions) for queuing and completing a dungeon. I have been advocating this for SWTOR for a long time now. It works really well in WoW.

Might be a good idea but then again I am not sure even a rare mount would get me to que my healer in a pug.

I've stopped queing in those unless i am que with my boyfriend (tank) and/or guild member and a lot of times we only need one other person. Seems to work better that way.

Also, don't their dungeons require 3 dps rather than the 2 dps required for a flashpoint?

 

Seems a better ratio, imo.

True but meaningless. When the ratio of DPS to tanks to healers is astronomically against DPS having one more DPS per group is statistically insignificant. i.e. when you have 100 DPS and 5 tanks and 10 healers queued instead of 10 dps getting a group and 90 waiting you have 15 in a group and 85 waiting. What you need is more players willing to tank, not more DPS per group.

Might be a good idea but then again I am not sure even a rare mount would get me to que my healer in a pug.

 

I've stopped queing in those unless i am que with my boyfriend (tank) and/or guild member and a lot of times we only need one other person. Seems to work better that way.

And that is perfectly fine. The incentives are to solve two issues:

To encourage those who play a class that can DPS OR tank/heal to queue as tank/heal instead of always DPS

To encourage players who would not normally queue to do so

i.e. when you have 100 DPS and 5 tanks and 10 healers queued instead of 10 dps getting a group and 90 waiting you have 15 in a group and 85 waiting.

Absolutely correct.

True but meaningless. When the ratio of DPS to tanks to healers is astronomically against DPS

Not meaningless. Less important perhaps, but certainly not meaningless.

While it is a moot point to argue (BW isn't going to redesign for 5-man flashpoints), it would reduce the queue time for a DPS by 33%. A 1-hour average wait time would become a 40-minute average wait time.

I've been logging into WoW the past few weeks (so this is now, late expansion when their subs are down) just to get my small group content fix, and the longest I've waited was about twelve minutes mid morning mid week as a dps, usually I've gotten a group between five and ten minutes.

Contrast that with SWTOR where I haven't gotten an HM pop in months as a dps (I don't have the patience to wait beyond about ten to fifteen minutes most days), and I even waited a little over twenty minutes for a queue pop the last time I queued as a tank.

So what does WoW have that SWTOR doesn't?

Cross server queues.

Role specific incentive rewards (e.g. extra rewards for roles needed - typically tanks, sometimes healers).

Five player groups (three dps instead of two).

Rewards that can't be earned elsewhere (valor to upgrade gear).

Legendary quest line that runs through several dungeons.

Estimated wait time (shows how long the wait will be - pretty accurate as well).

Dual spec (swap without having to reallocate points or set up bars / binds / abilities).

Gear (armor) that adapts to role (e.g. Paladin set chest will have strength and dps set bonus active when in dps spec and intellect and healing set bonus when in heal spec).

Oh and I haven't had an unsuccessful group yet (though I've had quite a few in SWTOR), though some have certainly been better than others.

Estimated wait time (shows how long the wait will be - pretty accurate as well).

STO has a similar feature. But rather than an estimated wait time, it's telling you how many people are queuing for which specific ground or space map.

Their group finder don't require roles, so it doesn't translate to TOR's situation, but it's certainly nice to scan the list of all possible things you could queue for, pick three that have almost enough for a full group, and get a pop a couple minutes later.

I don't ever q for fps anymore, unless it's for conquest and I can't get it by other means. Even then I try to get a group of guildies.

As far as I can tell, pretty much no one in our guild (which is pretty big) runs flashpoints. I remember back in 3.0 it was pretty common to see "lf tank and heals for randm hm fp in guild chat", almost every night. Not so anymore.

For me personally reasons are:

- no new flashpoints, old ones I know inside and out and many of them are too damn long (like false emperor or battle of ilum or directive 7) - too much of a time investment for alsmost no reward;

- pugs are getting worse and worse by the day - simply not ready for hm flashpoints.

Oh and I haven't had an unsuccessful group yet (though I've had quite a few in SWTOR), though some have certainly been better than others.

I have not been in many PuGs lately (this past week has been non-existent due to ISP problems; but I usually average 5 a week), but of those I have been in an overwhelming majority have been successful.

Not meaningless. Less important perhaps, but certainly not meaningless.

 

While it is a moot point to argue (BW isn't going to redesign for 5-man flashpoints), it would reduce the queue time for a DPS by 33%. A 1-hour average wait time would become a 40-minute average wait time.

While I agree with your math, I disagree with your sentiment. The question is would that reduction be enough?

I remember when the WoW dungeon changes - cross server queue and incentives and ETAs - were implemented. And even though DPS queue times went from 45 minutes to 25 minutes, there were still pages and pages of forum complaints about how that nearly 50% queue time reduction was not enough.

just sayin'

I have to say I really have never experienced this as any big issue.

I play often enough to see how extremely Queue times can be, at times I as DPS, only wait 1 minute, other times all night.

I have however looked into this issue, mostly for slightly other reasons, but in regards to grouping up.

I have noticed that 80% roughly of the players I meet are DPS.

Logically this WIL raise time for DPS to Queue, and fot the ONLY Dps classes this means more often then not waiting.

BUT, I have seem more often people simply poofing their groups, be if for myriade of reasons, but results or being wiped is usually NOT HIGH ON THE LIST.

I can hardly spend an hour without people crying out for ops, fp or even heroics, DPs so and so many, and it takes only a few seconds befor it become "we are full".

What I do see in relation to this is alot people queuing up that have in thwir mind a millon preferances that MUST be filled before they will go with tjis group. Most those preferances are outright silly.

So I say this.............as long as you WANT to have a long queue time you got it.

If you want to have a faster queue time, then simply lower your filter preferances to include more then 0.000000000000000000000% of the player base, abd viola problem solved.

It really surprises me that so many makes problems out of NOTHING.

I ONLY play DPS characters, an I NEVER have problems grouping up EVER...........but then gai I don't have a preferance list that exclude 99.99% of other players