what are you guys saying??? This is the 'better than cross server' thing they promised us!

***Sarcasm intended***

Ive had tanks that are lvl 65 in hm flashpoints that were worse then sub-65 ones. I'm a healer and getting aggro as the tank is using no aoe abilites and even if they focus target one mob they are dieing so fast its near impossible to heal them through it especially with both dps getting aggro as he is doing nothing to get more then one mob attacking him at the same time so having to heal all 4 group members while the tank is loosing 15-20% hp in one hit is insane. I know both my class and spec well enough to do hm ops so it wasnt an issue on my end just on the tanks end.

Besides ive also had a lvl 50 tank in an sm ops that was amazing making the flahpoint queue lvl 65 only would be a shame as there are some people that are free/prefered players thay cant get to 65 that know their class and spec so well they are better then half the lvl 65s in game at the moment

I like 65 only, but I'm also OK with sub 65.

With the recent event of double experience we've had an influx of not so well geared players. I give everyone a chance to color me impressed. However, time and time again the FP que teams me with sub-par geared players (@65) who just don't cut it. Having played multiple classes, but "mostly" healer I feel that I have a certain perspective when it comes to FP team makeups. Sort of a developed intuition. I'm not afraid to call people out for their shortcomings. Saves the team a headache, and hopefully, educates the person that I "call out". Usually along the lines of try again later with the right gear.

I'm hoping with time those that are 65 will que with the right tier of gear or higher to run HMFPs. They are after all, hard mode.

One day, when Bio has listened to all you baddies and HM FP's are 65 only, with at least 220 gear required and still bolstering you, what will your excuses be for being so bad that it's not even funny anymore?

Seriously, they're doable with level 50, thanks to bolster. If you you're able to do more than run in a straight line with your toon.

As per the title, please make Hard-mode Flashpoint GF Queue 65 ONLY. Sub 65 tanks DO NOT have the defense nor the hp to tank HM Flash points. If you want to waste the time of your friends then manually do the HM yourself by walking in the door. As that is all you are doing, wasting other people's time.

You DO realize that simply being level 65 does NOT qualify you as ready for HM FP's, right?

You need GEAR and SKILL in order to survive. I have seen a level 65 tank with 208 gear out-tank another one geared with 216 and 220 pieces, so skill is a HUGE part. Also, at level 65, depending on the tank, stacking Defense is a BAD IDEA.

You DO realize that simply being level 65 does NOT qualify you as ready for HM FP's, right?

 

You need GEAR and SKILL in order to survive. I have seen a level 65 tank with 208 gear out-tank another one geared with 216 and 220 pieces, so skill is a HUGE part. Also, at level 65, depending on the tank, stacking Defense is a BAD IDEA.

Actually stacking defense is now a bad idea for all PvE tanks because you get so much from gear, if a tank has to opportunity to not have defense they should go with that (warding B mods are very popular because they sacrifice defense rating for endurance )

Getting back on topic, level means nothing. As others have pointed out, just because you have a level 65 character does not mean you have the skill and/or situational awareness to do HMFPs. I have seen level 50 characters out perform level 65s because they LIVE; you cannot DPS if you are dead. And the healer or tank being underleveled is no excuse either:

• If the DPS out level the tank, then the DPS should give that tank at least 3 GCDs to setup and maintain agro.
  
• If the DPS out level the healer, then the tank should try to get agro on as much as possible and the DPS need to make sure they kill stuff in the right order (weak to strong) so that the sub-65 healer does not get reamed. And if the DPS are "following the tank" against SOP, then it is up to the tank understand this and guide the DPS on which mobs to kill (I do it ALL the time on my tank: start off on the strongest, see that the DPS are following me, shift to the weakest and move up weak to strong).
  

Lastly, this comes down to communication and sometimes taking things a little slower: If you have a sub 65 in the group use CC and make sure of kill order. Better to kill things more slowly and in fact kill them then wipe because you chose to rush rather than think things through.

That being said, there are FPs (both tactical and HM) that are simply tuned too hard for underleveled/undergeared characters to run through. Lost Island HM is a good example. It is mechanics heavy but it is also a gear check FP because without good gear you won't survive long enough for your team to help/rescue you. Red Reaper is a good example of a tactical FP that kills groups if they are too far under level. Maelstrom Prison TFP bonus boss is impossible without a healer (no kolto stations).

While I am not in favor of the OP's request, I do understand where it comes from.

Arguably increasing the entry level for HM FP's to 65 might increase success rates, but probably not by much for the reasons others have already stated.

I've been in two groups over the past few days with fairly well geared level 60+ that still were not able to complete the final boss (Doctor Lorrick) on Lost Island, after MANY attempts. Just a little more evidence that level by itself will not guarantee success.

Proficiency with your class, knowing strategies, and teamwork will also contribute. None of which can be measured by the groupfinder.

Unfortunately the learning curve in SWTOR is almost nil. I mean, you can get a free 60, do the story in KOTFE, get to 65 in maybe two hours using an XP boost, and hardly have used any abilities other than basic auto attack and "hits harder but is still basic" manual attack, which usually start out as the 1 and 2 keys on a brand new level 1 character. My guild and I have seen people who got to 65 in two or three days and immediately queue for HM's expecting to faceroll it, but not so fast-- HM's demand things you NEVER had the call to have to do leveling up!

"*** you mean I'm supposed to interrupt? *** is interrupt?"

"CC? Coca-Cola sucks, it's Pepsi that rocks, y u want me to drink a Coca-Cola before we fight this guy?"

"But I didn't have to do THAT in everything I did b4!"

Then they die and it's "*** did I die 4 U all SUCK" and yada yada.

A lot of people have also returned to the game after being away since ROTHC and almost everything we used to know about gear is no longer true. This leads to stats being all wrong.

Tacticals should be a training ground for HM's, but those are a joke-- many of them absolutely demand a "full" group (tank and healer and only two DPS) because an all DPS group simply doesn't have enough survivability to withstand being constantly beat on. Sooner or later every defensive you have will be on cooldown and unavailable, and the ability that finishes those cooldowns will ALSO be on cooldown, and you've used up your medpac for the fight and on TOP of all that, ALL of the kolto stations are on cooldown too. But your health is STILL dropping faster than the 2008 stock market. Nice knowing you!

Between the lack of a learning curve, people running straight from absurdly easy content into something that expects them to have memorized something they never even heard of before, and people returning after several years and still expecting gear to work like it did those several years ago, is it any wonder why it's so hard to finish HM flashpoints in a PUG?

The FPs are over-tuned, and that's the elephant in the room. Before, it was about mechanics- avoid AOE, kill the adds ASAP, beat the enrage time- now, it's be over-geared or face a possible wipe. There is just too much damage going out from some of these mobs and bosses, and God help you if you end up with a level 23 healer.

The tacticals usually have 4 DPS, and more often than not, only one is level 65.

I wish I could even get into a heroic. Was in the queue for four hours. It popped five times, three of which someone declined to join, one where a player let the timer run out and the one I did get in had an under level tank who had no clue how to actually tank (had to be a free 60-- he pulled slowly, broke CCs and didn't even attempt to Guard the healer).

It's like no one is doing them at all, even though the weekly just reset.

I wish I could even get into a heroic. Was in the queue for four hours. It popped five times, three of which someone declined to join, one where a player let the timer run out and the one I did get in had an under level tank who had no clue how to actually tank (had to be a free 60-- he pulled slowly, broke CCs and didn't even attempt to Guard the healer).

 

It's like no one is doing them at all, even though the weekly just reset.

Is there a group finder q for Heorics now? I'm just coming back after a short break.

Yes there is. It unlocks after you hit 50, but takes a while because it makes an actual balanced group (tank, healer, two dps).

And to reiterate what others were saying, level doesn't really determine a good tank. It's skill. For example, was doing a heroic today where the tank just kept leaping into everything, not even letting the healer catch up. I was also explaining a boss fight to a player who hadn't done it on heroic (she even admitted she only somewhat knew the fight) and jumped in mid-explanation. Needless to say, we wiped. Next time, I have full explanation, she was the only one in the group who didn't listen and got us killed again. She was 65 and fully geared. After that, I left. Skill will always be > gear.

And it's not like it was a particularly hard flashpoint. It was Tython I believe.

Yes there is. It unlocks after you hit 50, but takes a while because it makes an actual balanced group (tank, healer, two dps).

 

Are you talking about HM Flashpoints, or, Heroics? I'm familiar with the HM FP GF Q, I'm curious if there's a new GF Q for Heroics?

The Op as a point for the new FP, they are a bit harder for a non 65, the old one are very easy with a full group of 50 guys.

Maybe need to separate them, will be a nice solution, Tactical are a pain for me too as Healer..

DPS still jumping in everything without thinking.

Are you talking about HM Flashpoints, or, Heroics? I'm familiar with the HM FP GF Q, I'm curious if there's a new GF Q for Heroics?

Ah, no sorry. I'm used to calling Hard Mode dungeons Heroics (hold over from WoW days). Sorry for the confusion!