Jump to content

"True Neutral"?


LinJe

Recommended Posts

1) Is it possible to be totally grey/true neutral in the game? Does the game recognize this at all?

 

 

2) Canon-wise, was there ever a true Neutral Jedi/Sith?

 

 

Just curious. It got me thinking because I plan on a Sith Warrior as my first character but, knowing me, I usually make decisions based on my own preference and I tend to end up being very Neutral in games that actually have a scale like that (D&D games come to mind).

 

Thanks!

-Lin

Edited by LinJe
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 88
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

There have been MANY threads (largely from the RP community) hoping for Grey-alignment gear vendors that would allow players to make light and dark side choices throughout the game with the intent on keeping their LS/DS net gain around 0 = Grey. Many suggestions about the mechanics have been offered and BioWare is aware of the desire for this and they have promised that neutrality will be supported eventually.

 

Personally, I am one of those "Grey Jedi" and even now I am balancing my points, choosing dark side when it fits me and light side at other times and I am currently at -500 dark +450 Light = -50 Dark overall. When neutrality is finally introduced and we start seeing modable armor with a Grey II or Grey III requirement, I should be perfectly positioned to jump into that armor =)

 

Many of us don't like being totally amoral or righteously oblivious to everything around them and soon there will be something to reward our efforts at keeping the balance within the Force (which by the way is MUCH harder to do than simply choosing the red triangle or the white star at every crossroad)

 

Final point to those who hate the neutral route (there is a loud voice out there as well) Being grey is NOT about avoiding choices or taking the path of least resistence, it is about taking light side / dark side points at EVERY choice and striking a balance between our noble and ignoble actions.

 

See you all in game!

Edited by Kaaldean
Link to comment
Share on other sites

When I played in the beta, all color crystals that I encountered (except yellow ones) said something like: "Not useable by Dark/Light Side Level 1 and above".. can't recall correctly, but you get the point :D

 

I guess being neutral would then allow you to use all color crystals? I don't know

 

 

 

Neutral Jedi/Sith... I'm not a fan of Revan, so I only skimmed through his wookiepedia site - but didn't he like reach a point where he was neither Jedi nor Sith?

Suppose that's a neutral as it gets

Link to comment
Share on other sites

When I played in the beta, all color crystals that I encountered (except yellow ones) said something like: "Not useable by Dark/Light Side Level 1 and above".. can't recall correctly, but you get the point :D

 

I guess being neutral would then allow you to use all color crystals? I don't know

 

 

 

Neutral Jedi/Sith... I'm not a fan of Revan, so I only skimmed through his wookiepedia site - but didn't he like reach a point where he was neither Jedi nor Sith?

Suppose that's a neutral as it gets

 

Exactly!

 

Imagine a grey sentinel or maurader with a red and a blue saber in his hands... only possible to the grey jedi who has neither achieved Dark I or Light I.

 

Also, Revan is a perfect example of a Grey Jedi. Its rare... but its fun to play something other than LAWFUL GOOD, CHAOTIC GOOD, or LAWFUL EVIL, CHAOTIC EVIL... adding neutrality to the game will allow us old pen/paper D&D veterans to play a LAWFUL NEUTRAL, TRUE NEUTRAL, and a CHAOTIC NEUTRAL player and not be penalised by that choice.

 

Looking forward to neutrality when it comes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Exactly!

 

Imagine a grey sentinel or maurader with a red and a blue saber in his hands... only possible to the grey jedi who has neither achieved Dark I or Light I.

 

Also, Revan is a perfect example of a Grey Jedi. Its rare... but its fun to play something other than LAWFUL GOOD, CHAOTIC GOOD, or LAWFUL EVIL, CHAOTIC EVIL... adding neutrality to the game will allow us old pen/paper D&D veterans to play a LAWFUL NEUTRAL, TRUE NEUTRAL, and a CHAOTIC NEUTRAL player and not be penalised by that choice.

 

Looking forward to neutrality when it comes.

 

 

Man do I miss those games. There was such a scale and diversity to character development simply due to that alone, the many facets of a character's "alignment".

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was thinking, what about that old guy in the Wookie-world Forest in KOTOR?

 

He was sorta neutral I guess?

 

He's what the lore calls a Grey Jedi, and, as RoninTigera pointed out, his name is Jolee Bindo. And yes he was pretty much neutral in terms of darkside lightside viewpoint.

Edited by Remiel
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Except is there really such a thing as a "Grey Jedi" ? It would be a near impossibility one would think. I mean, Jedi are those that serve the light, and Sith serve the dark, so just by being a jedi, you are inherently light. So honestly, one would think in a logical sence,

 

A: THose that are Jedi, are Light

 

B: Those that are Dark are Sith

 

C: Those that do both can never be fully and equaly balanced because one side will always be there to outweigh the other.

 

I am only thinking out of Logic here though, I mean if you have a +450 and a -450 Ok, thats grey. But as soon as you make another decision, youre 1 or more points over or under and then you are inherently good or inherently evil again.

 

I think that if they do make a mechanic for this they will have to rewrite some programming to make a inherently neutral choice on such matters requiring a decision to be made.

 

Is this not the right course of thinking?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Except is there really such a thing as a "Grey Jedi" ? It would be a near impossibility one would think. I mean, Jedi are those that serve the light, and Sith serve the dark, so just by being a jedi, you are inherently light. So honestly, one would think in a logical sence,

 

A: THose that are Jedi, are Light

 

B: Those that are Dark are Sith

 

C: Those that do both can never be fully and equaly balanced because one side will always be there to outweigh the other.

 

I am only thinking out of Logic here though, I mean if you have a +450 and a -450 Ok, thats grey. But as soon as you make another decision, youre 1 or more points over or under and then you are inherently good or inherently evil again.

 

I think that if they do make a mechanic for this they will have to rewrite some programming to make a inherently neutral choice on such matters requiring a decision to be made.

 

Is this not the right course of thinking?

 

Honestly, it'd be nice to have additional dialogue options but I doubt they'd re-do all the characters missions and re-record dialogue for a neutral alignment.

 

So I'm thinking to be Neutral you just have to had made varying choices that evened out your Light/Dark.

 

But if what's been said is true, and they plan on recognizing and adding a Neutral element, who knows! I'm eager to find out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

hey soz peps but i cant post my own thread as I cant add a title.

 

maybe one of you can create a thread for me ><

 

my query: kenobi and palpatine. love hate?

 

so im a decemberist and ive been watching some clone wars and it suddenly hit me. palpatine doesn't seem to particulalry resent kenobi I have no memory of him speaking directly of him or about him in a negative or hatefull way. maybe just a phrase here and there but not more than any other jedi. Yet u would think otherwise, i mean he killed his first apprentice darth maul, he trained anakin, in the clone wars he always tries to ruin his plan, lets say more succesfully than other jedi. I mean the duo kenobi skywalker is as succesful as lennon-mc cartney. well he also majorly gimped his new apprentice, so thats a +50 reputation with sidous faction for kenobi. yet he survives order 66 and hides his future murder to him for 20 so years. By the time luke comes into play id figure palpatine would have fits of rage and nervous tics everytime he'd hear his name no? Evenmore so at the very end when his defeat is signed by anakins return to the light side, kenobi is a big part of anakins good side or whatever it is. i gues what i mean is if one day i were to meet palpatine id be particularly careful no to mention kenobi.

 

is it just me or we need some lore reference on this? i mean, in the last week i've come to know about the existence of the extended unierse cannon, non cannon and so on, the lore is huge and often the character development is way better than most stories, games, movies, series out there, yet me miss something as obvious as this. yes i know tor is some 1000 years before, im oftopic.. but ... but...

Edited by SushaBrancaleone
Link to comment
Share on other sites

i suppose i owe u an ontopic answer to the OP

 

the definition of gray jedi is ambigious according to what cannon u go with, regardless

i think i read somwhere that the dude mentioned above (the kotor companion) is the first time it was mentioned as a concept.

 

if u check wookiepedia look for the lost 20 most of those are considered gray jedis.

 

ah and i also remember some1 said it was first mentioned in movies in I, in the form of "some think qui gon is a gray jedi"

 

there have been more in the comics appearing since. wookepedia in case u're overly curious.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok grey jedi or sith sure its possible walking the middle road but if you think about it aint that most creatures/alien/ peoples road anyways if you actually think about it? how many of us actually have enlightenment or activly seeking it in real life? Closest thing i can think of compariing to a jedi. Now take sith how many of us are activly seeking to act demonic/destructive hurting and killing to get what we want?

 

So again a average person kinda does some bad things, hurts some ppl here and there but trys to help others close to them but nothing huge like help/hinder the world. But if we are talking about balancing the force then you would be able to use sith powers and jedi powers. The game doesnt allow that i remember in kotor you could balance and have said powers of both.

 

It be neat tho i must admit but should be a really really long quest chain to unlock. Possible ideas is you must me "grey". Must get all the hologrons (this would only be aceptable if they moved those things around and 1st come 1st serve with long cds on respawns) definatly some more stuff i havent thought of and then finally reset your toon back at level 1 and do the other sides quests so if you started sith go do jedi side over and remain in balance. I know it seems long and hard but the ability to use both light and dark skills shouldnt be done by everyone and should be really hard to do. Pluss i would add that you only got exp from quests not anything else no pvp no flash points less quest related. Farming exp dont work is what iam trying to say.

Edited by morganlion
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Now take sith how many of us are activly seeking to act demonic/destructive hurting and killing to get what we want?

 

mhh wait i remember something like.. "there is only passion" from the sith code of kotor, so technically some1 seeking just sexual and sentimental pleasure is pretty much down that sith way of life..

 

im sure we could find more examples to give some shades to your black and white point of view

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why to be truly neutral, to bring balance to the Force, one would have to be some sort of Chosen One or something...

 

The issue of what it might mean to be a "neutral" force user was somewhat implied in the 3rd season Clone Wars episodes of the Mortis trilogy. Check em out...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The problem is, 'neutral' in-game isn't neutral. It's insane, psychotic. Schizophrenic.

 

One moment you're petting kittens, then you're eating them for breakfast without remorse, then five minutes later breaking down in tears. You're trying to arbitrarily balance 'points' in some eternal equation, which ends up meaning you have no principles, no ethics or morals, and you wind up utterly and completely inconsistent.

 

The only way to do 'grey' properly is to make it a three-tiered system, with Light, Grey, and Dark points. But they haven't gone that route, so I'm not so sure they'll ever put in neutral gear.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, the way "Grey Jedi" are explained in the lore, is not that they where "neytral" neither dark, nor light, but that they, like Qui Gon would not strictly adhere to Councills decisions - they remain fully lightsiders, but sometimes choose their own path, instead of following directives. So, if you want to be a Grey Jedi, touch luck - you still gotta be light. If you are no longer a lightsider, you become a Fallen Jedi.... Edited by Farliner
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Exactly!

 

Imagine a grey sentinel or maurader with a red and a blue saber in his hands... only possible to the grey jedi who has neither achieved Dark I or Light I.

 

Also, Revan is a perfect example of a Grey Jedi. Its rare... but its fun to play something other than LAWFUL GOOD, CHAOTIC GOOD, or LAWFUL EVIL, CHAOTIC EVIL... adding neutrality to the game will allow us old pen/paper D&D veterans to play a LAWFUL NEUTRAL, TRUE NEUTRAL, and a CHAOTIC NEUTRAL player and not be penalised by that choice.

 

Looking forward to neutrality when it comes.

 

Reminds me of this: http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y6/Jedi_of_Night777/force_alignment_by_cptmeatman-d2e34lv.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The problem is, 'neutral' in-game isn't neutral. It's insane, psychotic. Schizophrenic.

 

One moment you're petting kittens, then you're eating them for breakfast without remorse, then five minutes later breaking down in tears. You're trying to arbitrarily balance 'points' in some eternal equation, which ends up meaning you have no principles, no ethics or morals, and you wind up utterly and completely inconsistent.

 

The only way to do 'grey' properly is to make it a three-tiered system, with Light, Grey, and Dark points. But they haven't gone that route, so I'm not so sure they'll ever put in neutral gear.

 

Eh no?

Insane is to kill everything in your way, or hug everything...

Neutral is what most people really are, making sometimes dark and sometimes light choices.

 

I have not tried to balance points at all, just making choices based on the situation, and guess what, currently I am at almost perfect balance, 1400 Light and 1450 Dark.

Edited by daweee
Link to comment
Share on other sites

All a "Grey Jedi" is, is a Jedi that will sometimes defy the usual order of the council.

Qui Gon Jin is considered a Grey Jedi. As is Jolee Bindo.

 

Ultimately, they are still good, they simply observe the force differently, and do not view the world, as cut and dry as the Jedi Order's doctrine.

 

They don't do one good thing, then one bad thing just to even out their score.

 

Grey Jedi were like priests who didn't agree completely with a religion's teachings. Much like how many Judeo-Christian denominations argue how best to serve God, and interpret the Bible. Ultimately they all serve the same end, but carry it out differently.

Edited by Fiachsidhe
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was thinking, what about that old guy in the Wookie-world Forest in KOTOR?

 

He was sorta neutral I guess?

 

He was light side, because if you chose the dark side path in the end you had to fight him because of your dark actions. And if you looked at his alignment it was light side.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Warning, this post contains yet another comparison to Star Wars Galaxies!

 

One thing I liked in SWG was that you didn't even have to pick between Empire and Rebel - there were items and ships that were exclusive to those who remained neutral. Obviously this game won't go that far, but I do think having some rewards for neutral alignment would be cool.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


×
×
  • Create New...