Um...see you next December for the next expac maybe? You sound like you need a break.

Nah i don't need it i'm obligued to take it because the current state of game.

I have a good guild with one of my toons, we run both new ops 16sm each week, then we do sec boss hm ravagers, well we have wiped that boss for an entire month, apparently there are players who like to do that, rinse and repeat, over and over again, i just can't take it anymore for me that's not fun anymore, i've completed all the aspects of the new expansion already so...I won't be expending an entire year doing the same 2 operations over and over again.

The problem is, that the advice "join a guild and your problem is solved" removes even more players from "the PUG scene", making it completely non-existent in the end.

 

Is this what people want ? No more PUGs ?

 

It's a bit like saying "you've got troubles as an Republic player in PvP ? Roll Imp instead !" , this creating an MASSIVE inbalance towards Empire in PvP ...

Well, 3 years later and I think it is what I want.

Got back into raiding for ops, been doing it for 2 months, and I can tell you the few groups that start from scratch on fleet (with the one dps "LFM 3D 2H 2T") and succeed in getting the group usually bomb and fall apart, because we find the group doesn't know how to do the most basic things like arrange an ops frame or keep track of what role everyone is, let alone fight bosses harder than KP/EV. One or two confused players can be handled, but there's a critical mass, and on some fights even one dps not knowing what to do or listening to instructions can end up wiping the raid several times, wasting the rest of the group's afternoon trying to teach them. The few "pugs" that spam once or twice to fill their last spot are just guild runs who need a substitute player, and those are mostly guaranteed to go smoothly.

Anyone who takes ops seriously enough to know a fight beforehand, or at least adapt to phase shifts without screwing the fight has already found a guild with ops leaders who take everyone not sleeping through the fight seriously. They want group members who can be guaranteed to stick through an op at a given time apart from emergencies, an organized effort to put together prepared groups for harder content, and a forum to provide guides so that everyone in the group is expected to read them. That's easily going to happen with a guild, not a pug who's just drawn by the gf bolster and reward each week.

Well, people are taught now in guilds, and everyone is afraid of PUgs, because they are not taught.

Why don't people go out into PUG territory and teach people there ?

After some time, a critical mass of knowledge-infused people should exist.

As a raid leader and someone who is regularly starting groups from scratch, I can say that I am normally looking for people being capable of doing the stuff I am searching for. Xeno 16m? Everyone can come as long as I have a few people that I know are capable of doing the job (one heal, one tank and one-two dps). TFB 8m MM? I'm obviously asking for cheevos - and, to be honest, I know 90% of the people being capable of raiding Master Mode Operations on my server.

My number one priority is, to get the Operation finished.

In general, there are three things a raid leader must have:

- knowledge of the encounter/the operation, for all roles (DPS, Heal, Tank)

- the ability to judge everyone in your group

These two things are necessary to delegate tasks to people that are capable of executing them - these players don't necessarily have to know the operation, they just need to be able to do stuff (like know what an interrupt/knockback/cc/whatever is.

And the third thing is the most important part.

- have something alongside you you can trust, who is the "second in command".

You really need someone you can trust with difficult tasks, especially if you have one or more unexperienced players in your group. This player also supports you in difficult decisions.

You don't necessarily need someone like this - if you have the balls to build a group without anyone you know, have fun. but I don't recommend it.

A final, important advice: If you don't know the operation, playing as a DPS and don't know what taunt or green abilities are doing and you are alone, without friends helping you run an operation: Don't start a group. it's simple as that.

Well, people are taught now in guilds, and everyone is afraid of PUgs, because they are not taught.

 

Why don't people go out into PUG territory and teach people there ?

 

After some time, a critical mass of knowledge-infused people should exist.

The critical mass won't exist since there are too many players not really interested in learning. And there are always new players starting with the game.

Just this morning, Gods of the Machine in GF.

Already had 6 players ready to go, lacking only a player with taunt ability and a random role. The lead was ready to explain and everything.

We didn't even get started.

Reasons:

Player1: Don't know the ops, how long will it take?

Leader explaining one and a half hour, maybe more due to necessary explanations.

Player1 has left the group.

Healer A, already half decked in the new Ossus gear starts to have a go at the group, minimum gear required for Gods being 246 or the group was doomed, he'd need a really really capable and well equipped co healer or the group would wipe endlessly. He was an expert, knowing what he was talking about since last time his group died at boss three until they gave up...

Group lead and experienced players (with gods veteran clear) explaining about bolster and someone with some clue about group play and healing being enough...

Healer A and is DPS friend not knowing the ops have left the group.

Another player loosing motivation to wait for replacements again, after the group almost had been full and the group officially broke up.

That does happen more and more often. The more difficult the ops being in GF and the less are groups forming anyway, no matter if there are explanations advertised or not. Lot's of players simply don't want to put in the effort of maybe using voice chat to get directions, to follow some simple mechanics, to have to meet some minimal requirements for what to do with a role or class.

As for teaching in general, my guild tried to motivate more players for other veteran ops than KP and EV.

Over weeks we we searching for players without experience on prime time Saturday evening. Expectations to have seen the story mode once, average gear rating of 236 and some basic class knowledge, for we wanted to teach veteran ops mechanics not start from total zero.

In the end we had exact 3 players who really were new and eager to learn since august, they still join occasionally, the rest were long time veteran players who initially thought to help a group of inexperienced players there too.

Since no one else answered our calls, we then ran together most of the time, having smooth but rather boring runs. But if no one else wants...

There are always two sides, those who teach, but also those who want to learn.

Ægis Reborn

Currently looking for more players from all walks. Raiders, experienced,new,old,skilled,teachable,etc. We are wanting

to build a core Operation team to learn and progress together with our end goal being Nightmare Ops(Master).There will be set raid days so if you cannot make these days consistently we are not looking for you. Once the raid group is formed we will discuss the raid times and dates.We understand real life happens. Gear is not a issue as we are working on that front also. We will Run ops to help gear our people. We want to be progressive but also want to be social and enjoy each others company. We expect constructive criticism to be taken with grace. If you cannot receive input or give input tactfully we are not looking for you. We have limited personal time and the raid times are time for raiding. We wish to capitalize on this time by either helping you get geared, learning rotations, boss fights/mechanics or helping build the raid team. Casuals are welcome but your raid spot will be earned. That includes mine. We will not subject people that put in work and time to having they're backs hurt. We have over a two decades of raiding experience ranging from World of Warcraft, Rift and FFXIV. So if you're interested please contact Hæbeus(alt + 145) in game. Look forward to hearing from you and hope to see you in-game.

Thank you

Hæbeu

I've had the queue pop a few times. It's RARE, but it happens. Most of the time, it's some folks on fleet going "Need 1 TANK, 2 DPS for GF Op"

My style is more or less "tank for hire." I am in a guild, and sometimes raid with them. But most of the time? Yeah, I'm watching Endgame chat or queued up while I dink around doing dailies, WZ, FP...whatever strikes my fancy. Somehow, I blundered my way into being...not the best tank on the server, but one that gets calls from several guilds if their usual tank is MiA, or they have a newbie that they need to teach.

I'm actually pretty stoked if that GF for OPS pops up, since it just means that I have a chance to play with folks I may not have run across before. Blowing through an op with experienced players is nice, but sometimes a group that has a good sense of humor despite losing more in repairs than the op pays out is more fun.