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Guard needs to be on a CD


Raansu

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Going to continue bringing this up BW. Guard needs to be changed to be something that actually requires a thought process. The ability needs to be on a CD and the buff of guard should only last for a short time. This concept of an indefinite buff is just too ridiculous especially with how overtuned healing is right now. It shouldn't take almost the entire team focusing on a tank/healer combo to take them out. Tack on the damage reduction from taunts + whatever CD's the healer is using and its just incredibly broken.
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I don't personally like the idea of a cooldown on guard.

 

Maybe lessening the amount transferred by roughly 10% could be justified on tank specs.

 

Its probably most broken on dps classes that can guard. I don't personally want to get rid of off-guard on dps as I think it provides unique utility and complexity to games. Having a dps guard transfer half of what a tank guard can transfer seems somewhat reasonable.

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Going to continue bringing this up BW. Guard needs to be changed to be something that actually requires a thought process. The ability needs to be on a CD and the buff of guard should only last for a short time. This concept of an indefinite buff is just too ridiculous especially with how overtuned healing is right now. It shouldn't take almost the entire team focusing on a tank/healer combo to take them out. Tack on the damage reduction from taunts + whatever CD's the healer is using and its just incredibly broken.

 

Just wait until tanks can make people stealth out too. LOL.

 

I agree about the combination of healer/tank at nodes in pvp.

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sounds like someone is just tired of losing games???? Guard does not need to be on a CD. Simply for the fact that it would break the way PVE is played, and also Ranked. Bioware shouldn't change it because people in regs aren't focusing or swapping targets.

Also, some tanks just have pocket heals so, of course, they would just leave the guard on. That suggestion is ridiculous.

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sounds like someone is just tired of losing games???? Guard does not need to be on a CD. Simply for the fact that it would break the way PVE is played, and also Ranked. Bioware shouldn't change it because people in regs aren't focusing or swapping targets.

Also, some tanks just have pocket heals so, of course, they would just leave the guard on. That suggestion is ridiculous.

 

blah blah blah winning losing blah blah blah, lets just ignore a real problem and go "herp derp."

 

I don't really care if I'm winning or losing a match. I do care about the TTL and how the majority of the games I play people only average 4-5 deaths a game. Add in guard and lawl healer aint ever going down and there will be 0-1 deaths across the board. Lets also just ignore the fact that most granked matches end up in stalemates and solo matches that end up with tank/healers in them usually always end up in stalemates.....but ya guard is fine. Nothing wrong with a 50% damage reduction skill of which can be swapped freely with only the GCD as its restriction.

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You're right. There's nothing wrong with the guard at all. :)

 

blah blah blah winning losing blah blah blah, lets just ignore a real problem and go "herp derp."

 

I don't really care if I'm winning or losing a match. I do care about the TTL and how the majority of the games I play people only average 4-5 deaths a game. Add in guard and lawl healer aint ever going down and there will be 0-1 deaths across the board. Lets also just ignore the fact that most granked matches end up in stalemates and solo matches that end up with tank/healers in them usually always end up in stalemates.....but ya guard is fine. Nothing wrong with a 50% damage reduction skill of which can be swapped freely with only the GCD as its restriction.

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blah blah blah winning losing blah blah blah, lets just ignore a real problem and go "herp derp."

 

I don't really care if I'm winning or losing a match. I do care about the TTL and how the majority of the games I play people only average 4-5 deaths a game. Add in guard and lawl healer aint ever going down and there will be 0-1 deaths across the board. Lets also just ignore the fact that most granked matches end up in stalemates and solo matches that end up with tank/healers in them usually always end up in stalemates.....but ya guard is fine. Nothing wrong with a 50% damage reduction skill of which can be swapped freely with only the GCD as its restriction.

 

Sounds like someone needs to learn how to dps

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... 50% damage reduction skill...

 

I wish people who were arguing for guard to be nerfed would quit misrepresenting it. It might very well need to be nerfed for balance, but guard is not a % damage *REDUCTION*. It's a transfer. Half of your damage doesn't magically go away, it gets moved to the tank (or dps who is guarding). I suspect you know this and you still want it to be nerfed. Fine. But quit calling it what it isn't.

 

You might think "oh, everyone knows what I meant", but given the number of tank spec'd toons I've seen in lowbies who do exactly ZERO protection (yes, they are high enough level to have both guard and taunt), I'm led to believe that there are plenty of people who have no idea how guard works in PvP.

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...but given the number of tank spec'd toons I've seen in lowbies who do exactly ZERO protection (yes, they are high enough level to have both guard and taunt), I'm led to believe that there are plenty of people who have no idea how guard works in PvP.

 

I am offended when I see DPS that can taunt with zero protection. The art of peeling and using taunts is dead! Luckily healers can handle a team of bad dps with self heals and their own DCDs.

 

Personally I think guard only seems OP'd when in regs. In 4v4s versus good DPS, it's hard to derp around as a healer, at least that's been my experience. I am average at best though, so maybe I33t healers can derp around in 4v4s with guard on?

 

I mean even on the rare occasion when you get some decent enemy DPS in regs it can be pretty rough without guard, but that's when facing DPS that actually can interrupt, stun, and eek out decent damage. In cases where i face decent DPS in regs, I wish I had guard lol.

 

So I don't know. The variables that make guard seem OP'd or not are so wide ranging... I think it really depends on the situation. In a perfect set up, where DPS are decent and skill levels are similar for the tank/healer and all dps involved I'd like to think things seem a bit more balanced.

 

Luckily for us, BW has their metrics to check and adjust accordingly if guard now is indeed imbalanced. I know I have faith they will handle this if it is the case. Not.

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I wish people who were arguing for guard to be nerfed would quit misrepresenting it. It might very well need to be nerfed for balance, but guard is not a % damage *REDUCTION*. It's a transfer. Half of your damage doesn't magically go away, it gets moved to the tank (or dps who is guarding). I suspect you know this and you still want it to be nerfed. Fine. But quit calling it what it isn't.

 

You might think "oh, everyone knows what I meant", but given the number of tank spec'd toons I've seen in lowbies who do exactly ZERO protection (yes, they are high enough level to have both guard and taunt), I'm led to believe that there are plenty of people who have no idea how guard works in PvP.

 

Its a damage reduction to the guarded player. That transferred damage means nothing to a tank when a big crit turns into a measly 8-9k hit that a healer can easily heal through.

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Pretty sure I can dps just fine. https://imgur.com/a/HuADhk4

 

I'm more impressed by the guy that did 2.5 mill while getting 14k objective points. Seems like he actually cares about something other than seeing a big number. You know, like being a team player.

 

Besides what, that tells me diddly squat. I had an (infamous to these forums by now) hypergates that involved 3 imps (before the faction split) doing nothing but focusing my dps guardian (before the FD rescale). Sure they had a lot of kills, and sure I died a lot. They still lost and my team won because I tied up 3 of their dps the whole match.

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blah blah blah winning losing blah blah blah, lets just ignore a real problem and go "herp derp."

 

I don't really care if I'm winning or losing a match. I do care about the TTL and how the majority of the games I play people only average 4-5 deaths a game. Add in guard and lawl healer aint ever going down and there will be 0-1 deaths across the board. Lets also just ignore the fact that most granked matches end up in stalemates and solo matches that end up with tank/healers in them usually always end up in stalemates.....but ya guard is fine. Nothing wrong with a 50% damage reduction skill of which can be swapped freely with only the GCD as its restriction.

 

Speaking group ranked, stalemates only really happen if teams mess up. There are enough tools in play offensively that you will get a kill if you play and execute correctly. This is with guard how it is now. If you mess up and still get kills consistently, then there is a problem with the game.

 

The quality of pvpers in this game overall is so poor that guard how it is now might seem op when it is not. This is 100% a L2P issue.

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I'm more impressed by the guy that did 2.5 mill while getting 14k objective points. Seems like he actually cares about something other than seeing a big number. You know, like being a team player.

 

Besides what, that tells me diddly squat. I had an (infamous to these forums by now) hypergates that involved 3 imps (before the faction split) doing nothing but focusing my dps guardian (before the FD rescale). Sure they had a lot of kills, and sure I died a lot. They still lost and my team won because I tied up 3 of their dps the whole match.

 

Some ppl can do both. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/574645663795511386/622146557168320542/IMG_20190913_210736.jpg

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Speaking group ranked, stalemates only really happen if teams mess up. There are enough tools in play offensively that you will get a kill if you play and execute correctly. This is with guard how it is now. If you mess up and still get kills consistently, then there is a problem with the game.

 

The quality of pvpers in this game overall is so poor that guard how it is now might seem op when it is not. This is 100% a L2P issue.

 

Its not. I've hated the guard mechanic since day 1. Its brain dead, takes zero skill to use and its always been too strong. Why do you think tank tunnel became a thing? Then all of sudden that strategy became taboo. Well maybe if guard wasn't so brain dead....

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Its not. I've hated the guard mechanic since day 1. Its brain dead, takes zero skill to use and its always been too strong. Why do you think tank tunnel became a thing? Then all of sudden that strategy became taboo. Well maybe if guard wasn't so brain dead....

 

tanktunnel became a thing because tanks did not put on any tank gear, not because guard is too strong.

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Speaking group ranked, stalemates only really happen if teams mess up. There are enough tools in play offensively that you will get a kill if you play and execute correctly. This is with guard how it is now. If you mess up and still get kills consistently, then there is a problem with the game.

 

The quality of pvpers in this game overall is so poor that guard how it is now might seem op when it is not. This is 100% a L2P issue.

 

Maybe a slight nerf to guard in regs then. That's been my impression of guard too, in 4v4s versus capable dps, tank guard never seemed overpowered.

 

It's only in 8v8 regs where everyone seems incapable of tunneling a target or doing decent dps where guard seems to be too powerful.

 

Even on a healer in regs with no guard, it can seem too powerful because the usual tunneled dps is so poor or just non-existent that a healer is hardly touched. This isn't the fault of guard. It's only when I face 1 really excellent dps or 2+ decent dps in regs where I feel the pressure and start thinking to myself "hmm I need a peel or some support with a guard." This is rare.

 

I just think it's a situation where you can't please or balance all game modes by having an ability work the same across the boards stat-wise.

 

They'd have to make guard less effective in regs versus in 4v4s, because if you gimp guard in 4v4s imagine how fast the matches would end when facing good DPS teams, lol. I mean they would blow tunneled targets up so fast it would be ridiculous.

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They'd have to make guard less effective in regs versus in 4v4s, because if you gimp guard in 4v4s imagine how fast the matches would end when facing good DPS teams, lol. I mean they would blow tunneled targets up so fast it would be ridiculous.

 

You act like that's a bad thing. TTK should be short in pvp.

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The quality of pvpers in this game overall is so poor that guard how it is now might seem op when it is not. This is 100% a L2P issue.

 

Much as it pains me to agree with you on anything... this is true

 

 

What does that have to do with OP? I never implied you can't. I was implying he can't.

 

Maybe a slight nerf to guard in regs then. That's been my impression of guard too, in 4v4s versus capable dps, tank guard never seemed overpowered.

 

Oh yes, let's nerf me because the average player has become so pathetic. I already never tank outside of when I'm running with my healer. Nerfing guard would guarantee I would never run my tank. Why would I when it becomes pointless to guard?

 

If I want to roll a support class solo I run a healer because it can actually do something other than waste a space a healer or even good dps could be using.

Edited by KendraP
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Going to continue bringing this up BW. Guard needs to be changed to be something that actually requires a thought process. The ability needs to be on a CD and the buff of guard should only last for a short time. This concept of an indefinite buff is just too ridiculous especially with how overtuned healing is right now. It shouldn't take almost the entire team focusing on a tank/healer combo to take them out. Tack on the damage reduction from taunts + whatever CD's the healer is using and its just incredibly broken.

 

This is an interesting idea. How long do you think? 3s? 9s?

Edited by Rion_Starkiller
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Nerfing guard would guarantee I would never run my tank. Why would I when it becomes pointless to guard?

 

Ya, heaven forbid you'd ever have to think about how you would use guard instead of the current cast and forget mechanics where its just always there and the only thing you have to worry about is staying within range which is hardly difficult.

 

Fact is guard requires zero skill or thought process in its current design.

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Ya, heaven forbid you'd ever have to think about how you would use guard instead of the current cast and forget mechanics where its just always there and the only thing you have to worry about is staying within range which is hardly difficult.

 

Fact is guard requires zero skill or thought process in its current design.

 

Oh as opposed to a dps who has to think about so much more?

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Oh yes, let's nerf me because the average player has become so pathetic.

 

It will never happen, anyway. I just give a possible suggestion if they really think guard is OP'd in the only place I see it could be, which is in regs due to how the meta is played, not just due to pathetic players.

 

It's rare when a tank, healer, and dps all need to work as a 4v4 team in regs, if they are then it's DMing at mid in huttball. Objective play almost always dictates the players move so honestly I don't think guard on a cooldown in regs or a slight nerf would crush gameplay for tanks.

 

That said, I don't view it as big enough of a deal to even touch it.

 

Instead, I'd suggest adding incentives in the WZs so people actualy try to win objectively again. Right now, there seems to be very little reason to even try to win so what you get are guarded healers sitting at mid trying to get as big of numbers as possible by the end of the match. This is another issue, though.

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