I am a experienced dps player. I have dps in many games for many years.

What i am finding here as a main issue is lack of target of target window and tanks that wont mark targets. I dont need threat meters or any of that junk. But i need some type of indicator of what target my tank is on! Ether premark the targets or tell me which one you want dead first! All to often here in this game i am drawing agro because the tank is not on the target i am even though i waiting to try and see which one he was going after.

A tank today was commenting that there is no easy way to mark targets on the fly. Seems you cant keybind the marks.

 

This.

 

Right now there is no way for me to be sure what you are targeting sometimes. We have ranged tanks for Force sake. Time to roll it back a bit and realize its not the same old hat anymore.

Actually, everyone can mark Mobs, so it does not have to be the Tank or healer or whatever. I usually say everyone gets a mark, and puts it on a Mob he or she can CC for at least 30 seconds. A 8 second stun is no CC in my eyes.

 

Anyway, Everyone marks what he can CC, the first mob to die gets the targeting sign, the second the fire and then it does not matter anymore.

 

As for people running around, yes it is annoying and if my Resources allow it, I prevent them from dropping dead, but if I am below 70% I am not taking any chances, especially not on trash mobs, that is just humiliating to die on those.

My opinion, if you do not know the Instance/FP, you stick back, behind the Tank or whoever knows the area. If they write Wait, you wait, they most likely are typing about how to tackle the next encounter.

 

And for Petes sake, stop running around corners to evade your healers heals.

Edited December 21, 2011 by Tarengrim

The game has target markers which is all thats really needed. DBM is a raid timer tool and so far I've seen no need for anything like that. Omen is fairly irrelevant nowadays in wow as blizz gave tanks pretty huge aggro generation. I hope you didnt mention dps meters as thats just epeen stroking

 

If a dps decides to pull aggro on an unmarked or CC'd one then let them die, at somepoint they will do one of a few things. Mostly this will be either to learn that dps is primarily there to help the tank kill the designated target or ragequit after having died so often their gears broken. The latter may or may not come with a stream of abuse, noob calling, etc.

 

As a tank you have to be vigilant yes but not to the point of having traumatic stress by the end of the run brought about from having to rescue the same muppet over and over and over. Even the average wow pugger can comprehend the see skull kill skull tactic.

Ummm. No.

 

Rolling a tank doesn't give you the right to be your own little Attila the Hun. Good groups work together, converse and strategize, and try to get the most out of everyone's abilities. Same goes for healers, CC, DPS, ANYONE. No one is better than someone else or more important. I've seen healers who refuse to heal DPS, and then wipe over and over again because they don't realize that you can't win some fights without an appropriate amount of DPS. Everyone should be doing their job, and if there is a problem handle it like adults.

 

As one fella above mentioned, I play Jedi Shadow (mirror to Sith Assassin) and I also DPS the normal mobs in pack pulls. I do this for many reasons, the first being that it is easy to do. I can usually down the normals quickly and assist on the elite(s) once finished. I take almost no damage doing this, and I even have tanking cooldowns I can pop if needed. I sometimes even switch to Combat and put Guard on the healer to be extra cautious on some fights (I'm looking at you Council fight in Mandalorian Raiders).

 

Many players have this old school mentality that the Tank and Healer are the center of the world, and that everyone else is just there as chaffe. This isn't true anymore, and it shouldn't be true in good game design. Every member of the group should have a role, and there should be some encounters where that role is flexible or dynamic.

 

This mentality that the Tank is "in charge" needs to go. Get over yourself. I'm not here to follow your target of target and mash the same rotation until everything dies in the order you determine (erroneously or not).

 

Don't make me remind you how often it is the Neanderthal tank types who charge into every pull without letting the CC classes utilizes their abilties (Sap much? Oh you already aggro'ed, nvm).

 

You want to complain or get on a soapbox about good playstyle? Teach people to fill their role and to do it with some sense of logic. Until you are maximizing every advantage and minimizing every risk on EACH and EVERY pull, you have no room to talk.

 

SWTOR is a revolutionary game in this aspect. The lines have been blurred, each class has multiple roles and isn't pigeon holed to just one playstyle. Has it ever occurred to anyone that perhaps the old ways aren't applicable here? That perhaps these encounters are designed to be different?

Agree completely. Don't strip us of our abilities and be mad when we don't use them. Dps aren't your little slaves either. Mention team work but in tank eyes the tank represents the team.

So far I've played Esseles, Hammer Station and Athiss as Commando healer. If I see my group doing stupid stuff I simply tell them how things should be done. In a polite way. Stuff like 'don't break CC' ("what's cc? close combat?"), 'be careful with your AoEs' ("what's aoe?"), 'let the tank' pull etc.pp...

 

There are quite a few people new to MMORPGs in SW:TOR at the moment and most seem to be thankful for a bit of help.

 

very much this. assume that people are new/inexperienced and explain what should be done. if you know how to fix the issues, don't expect people to read your mind - tell them! politely. it really does work

Depends on what kind of tank you are, if you're a guardian/jugg you might have trouble getting those mobs on you. Then they're running around attacking healers so no reason for other guys not to be off-tanking them.

 

Not only guardian/juggs might have problems. A different kind of problems consular tanks have. Several times it happened to me, I waited a moment for everyone being ready - then the dps jedi knight jumped straight into the mobgroup. Even if I then activated force speed he already had aggro. Then, as was described, everyone spread up, the jedi knight and the healer each having aggro of some of the mobs. At that level I do not yet have force pull, and Mind maze (to CC one of the mobs) only works while I am stealthed, and my AOE moves will only "get" some of the mobs due to them being split up over the room (sure, my stun still works, and that other CC I have I can cast on some ranged mob, still, and asides from that running around and catching all mobs from everyone).

 

Another problem though - in groupquests we usually had at least 2, sometimes 3 tankspecced players. Due to nonexistence of dualspec all of them were like "*I* am the tank", so all competed on aggro which resulted in weird gameplay (sometimes tanks dragging "their mobs" away from the other tank, so he cannot "steal them", might partially be a reason for that splitting up the OP describes). For some reason the tank role seems to be much more popular than in other MMOs (really rare are healers).

 

This problem is worsened by people not knowing certain classes as tank (in other games if you encounter a tank you know he is a tank, SWTOR is still new, people are not used to the mechanic, and think the tank-specced shadow is some sort of DPS or even a healer "as consulars are healers", or think the tank-specced trooper is some sort of ranged DPS.

Might be partially an issue that you don't see a health value when clicking a player, only a healthbar without text. So they cannot decide if this is a tank based on a health amount (only when looking at the tooltip or mousing over the bar). Despite a tank not being decided by its hitpoints I am absolutely convinced many players, also in other MMOs, judge "tank or not tank" by amount of hitpoints. Guardian tanks seem to be pretty "good" in the art of not noticing other tankspecced players who are not Guardians, as to my experience ^^

Edited December 21, 2011 by Kesitah

Yeah, I've watched too many squishies pull aggro, then claim they are "offtanking" something while I'm trying to heal their cloth covered butts back up

 

Are you 100% sure they were squishies and not actually cloth-covered Shadow tanks who noticed the other tank was more - aggressive - about being the tank in this group, and tried to find some role they could fulfill in this group? ^^

I've only been in a few FP groups so far, and it probably doesn't matter much at low levels, but what's up with groups scattering in a room each taking different mobs?! What ever happened to helping the tank! As a healer it will drive you crazy. Especially when people are on opposite sides of the room and get out of range of heals (why didn't you heal me?!).

 

Work as a unit people! Stand united! Your healers will thank you!

 

some people are just idiots and some are not. ^^

 

At low level though the mobs arent that though luckily and people can most of the time get away with it (flashpoint wise, its worse at HC4 quests or if its flashpoint elite group).

 

As a sniper i try to target the tanks target, unless there's a foolish weak mob tickling the healer, then that mob takes a explosive probe + ambush and drops dead.

 

Still people need to work as a group, and more importantly: use their brains :x

God knows how often i've told my friend to turn on his.

 

Oh yea, in mandalorian raiders i also got the tank/dps duty of taking down the jedi sentinel/sith marauder member of the 4-man boss (2nd boss encounter) in such cases its fine to utilize us =) (only strategy that worked, me and the healer ended up duoing the trooper one down since the tanks died). In some cases its ok to utilize "DPS" for what in older mmo's would fall under "tank jobs". Think utility. (in my case: cover, 3 sec 100% dodge, high single target dps etc etc).

Edited December 21, 2011 by Aryndelin

It's easy to spot the noob dps by the fact that they can't leave the bloody exposive barrels alone. Guess what? We get threat for that too. Edited December 21, 2011 by Bone_Machine

Personally I'm a Sith Juggernaut, DPS, and in some cases, an offtank.

What I like to do is talk to the group, and ofcourse check if anyone has CC's in the group before we start, then you can easily assign a CCer to a mark which you mark the mobs with.

 

I usually go with the ''Aim'' mark being the main target to nuke(This goes mainly for packs of elites) and fire being 2nd, then the non-marked target is the last objective.

The marks for CC's vary ofcourse, but so far this has worked out fine for me, even if sometimes you have to take a bit of extra time to explain exactly what someone needs to do.

Sure as hell beats wiping over and over due to no communication.

After reading all the posts here, I'm dreading doing the flash points. I rolled a healer (did a little in the game that shall not be named) and done a couple of 2 man quests, nothing major.

 

So having the tank, tank and me kust focusing on that one person makes sense. Im all for using every ones strengths and being treated as equal but that only works when things are going well. With the stuff hits the fan the blame goes on one person.

 

My problem is I dont wanna let people down but I dont no a good place to start. It'd be nice if you could get some practise runs in without fear of everyones wrath.

I like the idea of healing and getting good at it with practise but get put off of practising cos im still a n00b.

After reading all the posts here, I'm dreading doing the flash points. I rolled a healer (did a little in the game that shall not be named) and done a couple of 2 man quests, nothing major.

 

So having the tank, tank and me kust focusing on that one person makes sense. Im all for using every ones strengths and being treated as equal but that only works when things are going well. With the stuff hits the fan the blame goes on one person.

 

My problem is I dont wanna let people down but I dont no a good place to start. It'd be nice if you could get some practise runs in without fear of everyones wrath.

I like the idea of healing and getting good at it with practise but get put off of practising cos im still a n00b.

 

dont worry about it, start healing in groups as early as you can (Black talon/esseless, coruscant/dromund kaas HC quests) and you'll get experience.

 

Chaotic groups gives the best teaching actually. (But thats my personal experience). You wont find a better situation where you're forced to learn resource to healing management ^^

After reading all the posts here, I'm dreading doing the flash points. I rolled a healer (did a little in the game that shall not be named) and done a couple of 2 man quests, nothing major.

 

So having the tank, tank and me kust focusing on that one person makes sense. Im all for using every ones strengths and being treated as equal but that only works when things are going well. With the stuff hits the fan the blame goes on one person.

 

My problem is I dont wanna let people down but I dont no a good place to start. It'd be nice if you could get some practise runs in without fear of everyones wrath.

I like the idea of healing and getting good at it with practise but get put off of practising cos im still a n00b.

 

Black talon and the republic equivalent are very forgiving as they are the first flashes. Good place to start.

I know what you mean, at level 23 I was gonna do Athiss with my commando healer, along with guardian, gunslinger and shadow. The shadow was DPS specced while the guardian was tank, so it was obvious who was gonna be the tank, it seemed like the shadow tried way to hard to get aggro, so I refused to heal her if the wouldn't quit doing so, she was offended and left group. Better for all of us

After reading all the posts here, I'm dreading doing the flash points. I rolled a healer (did a little in the game that shall not be named) and done a couple of 2 man quests, nothing major.

 

So having the tank, tank and me kust focusing on that one person makes sense. Im all for using every ones strengths and being treated as equal but that only works when things are going well. With the stuff hits the fan the blame goes on one person.

 

My problem is I dont wanna let people down but I dont no a good place to start. It'd be nice if you could get some practise runs in without fear of everyones wrath.

I like the idea of healing and getting good at it with practise but get put off of practising cos im still a n00b.

 

This is an artificial normality established by the play experiences of other MMOs. In game like WoW, until endgame this is exactly how every group was supposed to work. The tank holds aggro on everything, DPS hits his target, healer heals tank, loot drops and we go home.

 

Turns out that style of play is boring for players AND developers. What you see at the higher endgame content of many of these games is more complex fights, such as fights where aggro is dropped, where there is a large amount of AOE damage, or any number of other "oddball" factors.

 

You would be far better served learning to be a more dynamic healer and player from the get go. You should be cultivating skills to handle situations that are not the traditional norm. You should be prepared to heal your DPS in an AOE encounter, or prepared to heal the offtank when the MT dies or the encounter drops his aggro.

 

Encounter design is moving away from that cookie cutter norm, because after fifteen years of MMOs, everyone is pretty tired of it. Expect the unexpected, stay on your toes.

 

By all means, keep people in check. The culprit may be a newb, may not really understand their role or character, may as some mentioned above be confused as to who is the tank, etc. Discuss issues calmly and without insults and accusation and you will cultivate good group experiences, and maybe even a few new friendships.

 

People are far more willing to wipe earlier in the game than later, so develop your skills early!

This is an artificial normality established by the play experiences of other MMOs. In game like WoW, until endgame this is exactly how every group was supposed to work. The tank holds aggro on everything, DPS hits his target, healer heals tank, loot drops and we go home.

 

Turns out that style of play is boring for players AND developers. What you see at the higher endgame content of many of these games is more complex fights, such as fights where aggro is dropped, where there is a large amount of AOE damage, or any number of other "oddball" factors.

 

You would be far better served learning to be a more dynamic healer and player from the get go. You should be cultivating skills to handle situations that are not the traditional norm. You should be prepared to heal your DPS in an AOE encounter, or prepared to heal the offtank when the MT dies or the encounter drops his aggro.

 

Encounter design is moving away from that cookie cutter norm, because after fifteen years of MMOs, everyone is pretty tired of it. Expect the unexpected, stay on your toes.

 

By all means, keep people in check. The culprit may be a newb, may not really understand their role or character, may as some mentioned above be confused as to who is the tank, etc. Discuss issues calmly and without insults and accusation and you will cultivate good group experiences, and maybe even a few new friendships.

 

People are far more willing to wipe earlier in the game than later, so develop your skills early!

 

This Is an interesting point. Are people raging here because they're use to the "old" formula you speak of?

Edited December 21, 2011 by Kneemo

As to what I have seen so far the old formula is still valid. Though it is more the formula in WoW:TBC than in current WoW (meaning: With CC needed!) But my favorite guys, the ever-force-jumping DPS-Jedi-Knights can really screw things up for for a consular tank (especially if there are two of them ;-) ). Often I just select a mob to mark it for CC when a Jedi knight jumps at the mob.

I've only been in a few FP groups so far, and it probably doesn't matter much at low levels, but what's up with groups scattering in a room each taking different mobs?! What ever happened to helping the tank! As a healer it will drive you crazy. Especially when people are on opposite sides of the room and get out of range of heals (why didn't you heal me?!).

 

Work as a unit people! Stand united! Your healers will thank you!

 

Most of it has to do with this is not WoW. And mobs dont act like WoW mobs. Tanking in this game is a bit more then oh just run into a pile and everything will queue up the tank and we do the normal WoW thing.

 

I have seen many a timewere the AI will swap off to the heal with no aggro pulled the bottom line is your tank need to be ingageing the hardest mob while the rest of the team cleans up the trash then you roll the boss. If you dont one of your healers or DPS is going to get rolled by adds.

 

So far this my exp with running different world heroics as well as BT HS Athiss and Mando.

 

And your right it might matter and be different in end game but so far its been as discribed above.

 

We really need to get off this is just WoW idea cause its really not.

i'm an assassin dps.

 

say there's a group that has, say, 2 strong level mobs and 2 normal mobs. i will typically kill off the 2 normal mobs first even if that's not the one the tank is attacking.

 

i do this for a couple reasons:

 

1.

i noticed a kind of lack of multi target attacks for tanks at my level of groups (lvl 22), unless they just decide not to use them around me. i also don't have any aoe attacks except the one that pushes all the enemies. but a tank got mad at me for using it so i quit using it unless i'm pushing enemies into a trap area. but my point is, those mobs have to die faster than "one at a time." trash should not end up being an endurance fight like a boss fight.

 

2.

normal level mobs are underestimated in large numbers. killing them off quickly reduces damage the tank takes a lot. so, once they're aggro'd to the tank, all it takes usually is one Maul and a Thrash to kill one off. and i can usually handle a strong level mob without help from the healer, especially since i can seethe after the fight.

 

there are other situations where i'd attack other targets but those are too "in the moment" for me to remember. and obviously i attack any elite leveled mobs that the tank is attacking.

 

i don't consider this "tanking" or not allowing the tank to tank. especially when this method works wonderfully in my groups. the idea that dps should just attack what the tank is attacking is retarded and very limiting to any kind of strategy. tanks complain that they have all the responsibility and yet they won't give anybody any of it even if they wanted it.

 

This is definitely inline with my observations at this point, I think part of the problem is that the game is designed to make you feel like your the hero of the world in solo play when you are running around against the odds taking on 5 mobs at a time by yourself, so people do that for a couple hours get to a heroic or flashpoint and think they can continue with that same mentality instead of slowing down the pace and filling a role.

 

Its early, things will improve as players start policing themselves.

This Is an interesting point. Are people raging here because they're use to the "old" formula you speak of?

 

In my opinion, yes.

Most of it has to do with this is not WoW. And mobs dont act like WoW mobs. Tanking in this game is a bit more then oh just run into a pile and everything will queue up the tank and we do the normal WoW thing.

 

I have seen many a timewere the AI will swap off to the heal with no aggro pulled the bottom line is your tank need to be ingageing the hardest mob while the rest of the team cleans up the trash then you roll the boss. If you dont one of your healers or DPS is going to get rolled by adds.

 

So far this my exp with running different world heroics as well as BT HS Athiss and Mando.

 

And your right it might matter and be different in end game but so far its been as discribed above.

 

We really need to get off this is just WoW idea cause its really not.

 

Very much this.

 

Thanks for the support.

i will agree 100% to that, there is no excuse to leap in unprepared.

 

It always makes me smile when i get someone force leaping on me. A few bursts of flame and a bit of crowd control to back up and kite them soon changes thier minds. Whoops, too late!

This might have to do, with the first Flashpoint being more or less a Zerg... and actually i wonder that there are so many non-elites inside the FP.

 

Not idea how the second FP works, more traditional?

Cause ppl are idiots... Have had a few groups where I'm tanking and ppl just rush in all gung ho then when they die, why weren't you healing or why weren't you tanking lol some ppl are just retarded Rambo wannabe's

 

Yes as healer i agree. I have only got to Hammer Station so far but with a good team its ok. But its more of a challenge than the ezmode mmos i played before, and thats great. They do much damage there and people gets killed quickly if they have no clue and if out of range tanking mobs with no kinda protection. Heavy armor users can often survive and do offtanking of lesser trash but it can make it kinda frustrating for healer if they pull mobs they cant deal with. As healer i see very fast who is gonna die quick and whos gonna soak it up.

 

I find healing efficiently in this game somewhat more challenging than in other games. You cannot just spam heals on a merc for example that would heat u up too much. Gotta shoot healing blasters in between for slow heals Being able to withstand some damage before you get the initial heal is important. Met some juggernaut who did that good he tanked good, but i didnt have to heal him so much because he was well protected.

Edited December 21, 2011 by LinsesPreia

This might have to do, with the first Flashpoint being more or less a Zerg... and actually i wonder that there are so many non-elites inside the FP.

 

Not idea how the second FP works, more traditional?

 

Yes it seemed more of a challenge. With more whipes and frustration for healers. Surely depend on level of team-members. We were only 16ish. And we had some challenge.

 

But its fun and you get to practice ur skills more than the first flashpoint (lvl10) which was more like a cool story with a little zerg fighting here and there

Edited December 21, 2011 by LinsesPreia