A random thought occurred to me while playing throughout the chapters: Are the Scions of Zakuul more powerful in terms of having force visions than Voss mystics are? What do you guys think?

It depends on what they actually see.

 

Voss mystics sees things that have to be interpreted in order to make sense because they're not a clear cut vision into the future, just images that can be interpreted into future events, which is why Interpreters in the Voss can be wrong while the Mystics can never be wrong

 

Meanwhile we have no insight of how the Scions see the future, it being actual sight into future events or similar to the Voss' way of seeing the future

Meh, its hard to say sense everything we know about the Scions at this point is still kind of vague, I don't think we've even heard a definitive prophecy/vision/etc issued by them.

 

Imo, Mystics are stronger because the Voss people decided to create an entire society center around just what the Mystics see vs the Scions, Zakuul doesn't seem to miss the Scions after Arcann purged them from the empire.

Meh, its hard to say sense everything we know about the Scions at this point is still kind of vague, I don't think we've even heard a definitive prophecy/vision/etc issued by them.

 

Imo, Mystics are stronger because the Voss people decided to create an entire society center around just what the Mystics see vs the Scions, Zakuul doesn't seem to miss the Scions after Arcann purged them from the empire.

 

that doesn't mean anything though. it's worth noting that the scions fell out of favor when they basicly told Arcan "umm just so you know, the outlander's gonna win"

Not necessarily more powerful, but we don't really know how exactly their Force visions work. However, as mentioned in their codex entry, Scions themselves consider their visions to be foolproof and indisputable, whereas Voss Mystics aren't above using interpreters for theirs. Edited November 5, 2015 by BenitsubasaChiyo

Not necessarily more powerful, but we don't really know how exactly their Force visions work. However, as mentioned in their codex entry, Scions themselves consider their visions to be foolproof and indisputable, whereas Voss Mystics aren't above using interpreters for theirs.

That's not a point against the Voss. Voss visions are foolproof, interpreters or no. Interpreters just enable the Voss to actually act on their knowledge.

 

What I'd be interested in knowing is how long the Scions have been around. We know the Emperor took an interest in Voss. I wonder if he took what he learned and applied it elsewhere.

That's not a point against the Voss

Indeed. I just pointed out a slight difference in their methods.

Edited November 5, 2015 by BenitsubasaChiyo

As far as we know the Scions are always absolutely certain of the future, no doubt about it. If I remember correctly is that a vision can't be made official unless the interpreters all agree or at least mostly agree? And also at the least the Mystics are willing to actually tell you details about the actual visions instead of just being vague and mysterious all the time like the Scions have been so far. Edited November 5, 2015 by Lavariusstar

I would just point out that apparently the Scion's visions weren't enough to prevent the slaughter of hundreds/thousands of them at the hands of the Zakuul Knights.

 

Either they didn't see that coming, or they allowed it to happen just so that they could demand retribution and/or whine b**** and complain about it afterwards.

 

Edit: Nor apparently, where their visions enough to prevent Arcann/You with Arcann's help from "killing" Valkorion.

Edited November 5, 2015 by OathboundCoH

story wise I think the voss mystic was utter garbage..i remember playing it with my old main..smugler...when game released..it was so bad and boring that I contemplated quitting swtor...

 

On the contrary...The scions i find VERY interesting and cool

they allowed it to happen

 

Exactly. "Everyone plays the role assigned to them by fate" ©

As far as we know the Scions are always absolutely certain of the future, no doubt about it. If I remember correctly is that a vision can't be made official unless the interpreters all agree or at least mostly agree? And also at the least the Mystics are willing to actually tell you details about the actual visions instead of just being vague and mysterious all the time like the Scions have been so far.

The vision is made. But the Voss can't act unless the interpretation is clear and complete. One of the tables you study before the Trials (Empire side I think) and the question about is regarding a Mystic's vision which the interpreters took decades to decipher. The correct response was to let them work it out (which eventually they did). Vision can't be rushed.

 

I agree with you about the pseudo mysteriousness of the Scions. Seems kinda lame.

 

story wise I think the voss mystic was utter garbage..i remember playing it with my old main..smugler...when game released..it was so bad and boring that I contemplated quitting swtor...

 

On the contrary...The scions i find VERY interesting and cool

Why? The Voss actually take the time to explain their process unlike the Scions who do what every cliche fortuneteller does, try to be cryptic but just end up being vague to the point of uselessness.

 

Time will tell which is better, provided Bioware reveals more about the Scions. If they are as infallible as the Voss and they can interpret their own visions and thus act quicker they would indeed be superior. But both those conditions must be true. If we do delve more into it though, I'd appreciate some commentary from Sanna-Rae about it. What the Voss think of the Scions and vice-versa could be very illuminating.

Edited November 5, 2015 by CrutchCricket

I'm not sure how important scions were to Zakuulan society,all I do know is from that codex entry where it says that Valkorian did use them to find the Eternal Fleet.But other than that they just seemed to be kinda there,until Arcaan decided that they were useless because he considers himself above fate and prophecy. It kinda makes me curious as to why Arcaan didn't decided to wipe out all the Voss with the star fortresses.Maybe he just has a specific dislike of the scions themselves.

I'm really only curious as to why the Emperor attempted to find a Voss to act as his Voice... When he already had an order of Scions to make predictions for him. Or perhaps he wanted to use the Voss to make predictions himself? Couldn't he already? Or did he just want to understand how the Scions worked? Are the Scions a relatively new order, that the Emperor created after learning of the Voss mystics? Is there some kind of ancient relationship between them?

That's not a point against the Voss. Voss visions are foolproof, interpreters or no. Interpreters just enable the Voss to actually act on their knowledge.

 

What I'd be interested in knowing is how long the Scions have been around. We know the Emperor took an interest in Voss. I wonder if he took what he learned and applied it elsewhere.

 

I wouldn't say Voss visions are fool proof when its been stated in other sources and even the movies that Force Visions are never certain. Future always in motion and all that.

 

In any case, I'm not a fan of either sect since again, I don't like how the game seems to treat Force Visions as some sort of certainty when in actual canon it has been the downfall of very major players through out galactic history.

Edited November 6, 2015 by Zackaroth

In any case, I'm not a fan of either sect since again, I don't like how the game seems to treat Force Visions as some sort of certainty when in actual canon it has been the downfall of very major players through out galactic history.

 

The game hasn't shown any kind of certainty from either group. You can outright disprove a Voss vision in the Knight storyline if you go darkside. Just because the Mystics/Scions are imbeciles who go out of their way to fulfill their own prophecies even when it gets people killed doesn't mean that those prophecies couldn't have been avoided if they'd actually taken them as warnings instead of roadmaps.

<< Are the Scions a relatively new order, that the Emperor created after learning of the Voss mystics? Is there some kind of ancient relationship between them? >>

 

interestingly enough, they play the same music for the voss and the heralds of zidrog. They do use some motifs the same with the Scions as well.

 

 

You can always predict from the music

I wouldn't say Voss visions are fool proof when its been stated in other sources and even the movies that Force Visions are never certain. Future always in motion and all that.

 

In any case, I'm not a fan of either sect since again, I don't like how the game seems to treat Force Visions as some sort of certainty when in actual canon it has been the downfall of very major players through out galactic history.

Voss visions are different from those of Jedi and Sith. A Jedi/Sith is told the future is always in motion. For a Voss though, a vision is infallible. That's partly why the Jedi and Sith are so interested in them to begin with.

 

Yes the lore of Jedi has always had visions as being only of possible futures, and this game is no different. But the lore created for Voss is that visions are certain. What everyone would like to know both in-universe and out is how.

The game hasn't shown any kind of certainty from either group. You can outright disprove a Voss vision in the Knight storyline if you go darkside. Just because the Mystics/Scions are imbeciles who go out of their way to fulfill their own prophecies even when it gets people killed doesn't mean that those prophecies couldn't have been avoided if they'd actually taken them as warnings instead of roadmaps.

You don't disprove anything. The vision ends with the Knight, and the Voss (can't remember their names) standing at the precipice. if you kill the girl afterwards that doesn't invalidate the premise. What the Mystic saw came true.

One of the Voss visions showed Voss fighting the Gormak, and proceeded to split their population into two just so they would eventually become the Voss and Gormak (the vision plate talking about how half the population would have to fight the other half, etc.... that plate is BEFORE the Voss and Gormak split). THEN they created the whole "Voss cannot fight Voss rule" just so the hero can resolve the civil war a thirteen hundred years later.

 

The Scions have a vision of death, so they set up a trial to prove it... then set up their safehouse to be wiped clean as a part of their vision.

 

No wonder the Jedi and Sith try to limit Force training to their shared tradition... Jedi and Sith fight the future.

Don't quite know but the Scions seem to accept what they see as the absolute future that can not be changed while Voss Mystics see possible futures that they must follow or else it will never happen or attempt to prevent because it may lead to something bad for their people.

 

I would say Scions for their absolute future visions as something more powerful over the Voss Mystic's Possible future visions which they do not know if it may or may not happen unless they actually attempt to follow it or interfere

Edited November 6, 2015 by EdwinLi

Don't quite know but the Scions seem to accept what they see as the absolute future that can not be changed while Voss Mystics see possible futures that they must follow or else it will never happen or attempt to prevent because it may lead to something bad for their people.

 

I would say Scions for their absolute future visions as something more powerful over the Voss Mystic's Possible future visions which they do not know if it may or may not happen unless they actually attempt to follow it or interfere

I wouldn't interpret the Voss as less absolute. I think it's more on where they place the emphasis. Voss seem to square agency with destiny in a way the Scions have not.

 

Say a Mystic and a Scion see a vision of you killing a man on a cliff. The Scion says you will be at the cliff killing the man, regardless of what you do. The Mystic says you must go to the cliff and kill the man because it is foreseen. Based on what we're told from either side you will be at that cliff either way and you will kill the man, whether you were planning on it or not. The only difference is in communication.

I've read a good deal of the opinions from players on this thread... And my conclusion: I don't think there's really much of a difference at all, except the Scions are a bit meaner than the Mystics. Edited November 6, 2015 by Anysao

Voss visions are different from those of Jedi and Sith. A Jedi/Sith is told the future is always in motion. For a Voss though, a vision is infallible. That's partly why the Jedi and Sith are so interested in them to begin with.

 

Yes the lore of Jedi has always had visions as being only of possible futures, and this game is no different. But the lore created for Voss is that visions are certain. What everyone would like to know both in-universe and out is how.

 

Nope. The Voss have force visions like Jedi or Sith - they're using the same Force, after all.

"Always in motion, is the future."

What the Voss do is use interpreters, which gives them a very convenient excuse: If a 'vision' fails to come to pass, then it's blamed on bad interpretation.

Nope. The Voss have force visions like Jedi or Sith - they're using the same Force, after all.

"Always in motion, is the future."

What the Voss do is use interpreters, which gives them a very convenient excuse: If a 'vision' fails to come to pass, then it's blamed on bad interpretation.

 

Not to mention how vague those interpretations can be.

 

 

 

Edited November 8, 2015 by OathboundCoH