What I look at is how often I get requests to do full runs, since I am a tank it generally falls to me to make such binding decisions for the team.

Out of curiosity: what do you normally decide?

Out of curiosity: what do you normally decide?

There hasn't been any requrest to do full runs to me, but let's say there were, it would depend on my mood, and the amount of time I have. Generally I'd want a quick run however if I know that it's late night so not many people doing fp's or simply because of wish to help someone else I can do a full run.

I always find these affirmations interesting. How do you know it is the majority that want fast runs? Do you ask at the beginning of a FP and 3 out of 4 say "fast run"? Or is it just that one guy saying "keep running, the boss resets" and then everyone follows because they are afraid to "stick out"? Food for thought...

Well, I always want speed runs, I'm just never vocal about it. However, anytime someone isn't pressing spacebar, AT LEAST one other person mentions it... sometimes 2 of them. Which means 3/4 people want to "hurry up" the run. As for skipping... the group seems to always default to "skip as much as you can" and you can't say that the "non-skippers" are the majority just because 3 of the 4 people remain silent on boss skipping.

So it's not really food for thought because your premise is shaky at best.

Well, I always want speed runs, I'm just never vocal about it. However, anytime someone isn't pressing spacebar, AT LEAST one other person mentions it... sometimes 2 of them. Which means 3/4 people want to "hurry up" the run. As for skipping... the group seems to always default to "skip as much as you can" and you can't say that the "non-skippers" are the majority just because 3 of the 4 people remain silent on boss skipping.

 

So it's not really food for thought because your premise is shaky at best.

I didn't make any premise either way . I simply questioned the affirmation that most *want to skip* because, as you put it: the group seems to always default to "skip as much as you can". I never said "that the "non-skippers" are the majority". I just raised the question about whether they "want ot skip" or if they are just "going with the flow". Hence the "food for thought" .

 

I didn't make any premise either way . I simply questioned the affirmation that most *want to skip* because, as you put it: the group seems to always default to "skip as much as you can". I never said "that the "non-skippers" are the majority". I just raised the question about whether they "want ot skip" or if they are just "going with the flow". Hence the "food for thought" .

Ugh... it's only food for thought if it's something interesting to think about because it has some merit. Your statement really doesn't... sorry, but you might as well say the silent ones can't read or write English.

Well, I always want speed runs, I'm just never vocal about it. However, anytime someone isn't pressing spacebar, AT LEAST one other person mentions it... sometimes 2 of them. Which means 3/4 people want to "hurry up" the run. As for skipping... the group seems to always default to "skip as much as you can" and you can't say that the "non-skippers" are the majority just because 3 of the 4 people remain silent on boss skipping.

 

So it's not really food for thought because your premise is shaky at best.

Have you thought the ones that aren't speaking don't want to upset the more vocal ones in the group so they just remain quiet just not to upset the vocal ones. There are some people who are quiet and will not say anything if there is one or two pushing the point to hurry up. I have seen more vocal ones that get aggravated if someone speaks up that doesnt want to skip so the ones that are quiet stop talking.

Have you thought the ones that aren't speaking don't want to upset the more vocal ones in the group so they just remain quiet just not to upset the vocal ones. There are some people who are quiet and will not say anything if there is one or two pushing the point to hurry up. I have seen more vocal ones that get aggravated if someone speaks up that doesnt want to skip so the ones that are quiet stop talking.

Sure, but you can't say that the silent ones are probably more on side or the other. I for one am silent in most FP's, yet:

I want speed runs

I like skipping bosses and mobs

I don't need for companion loot

I press spacebar on every convo

That doesn't meant that everyone who is silent is like me, either. But arbitrarily saying the silent group is probably the ones who don't want to skip is an unsubstantiated conjecture.

But if you're quiet because you're too afraid to ask "Mind if we kill the bosses?"... well then, not sure what to say to that. 1) You need to speak up more. 2) Honestly, though, the ones who are rushing know better in the fact that no boss except for the last one is worth really anything for loot and the real goal of FP's in the lfg system is the BH comms. Most people I've grouped with are typically beyond ilvl56 gear. So there's little point in killing bosses that drop gear that's Tionese level.

It seems that teams doing flashpoints skip some of the bosses and have no respect for the ones that are signing up to get better gear.

 

Please respect the players that join flashpoints with groupfinder to gear up, it is enough to wait for ages for them to pop.

How is this any different from saying people that want to do all the bosses have no respect for people wanting to skip them? And please respect the player that just wants to do a quick run for comms.

I'm just curious, and not necessarily disagreeing with your view. If the group wants to do them, I have no problem with that generally. But people value their time differently. People doing it for comm runs have to wait in the group finder also.

On the subject of doing bonus bosses. The key word there is bonus, not a requirement. Again, I have no problem helping others out. But I also have a realistic view that some people don't have a lot of time to play and are maximizing their time by choosing what they want to do.

All i get frorm this whole thread is

"I can't seem to find like-minded players so i'll go complain and maybe bioware will give me a guild finder"

Get a guild or a group that wants to do the old content still. As the OP said, this game is about progression. 90%(made up statistic but probably very realistic) of the game(not including the new f2p players ofcourse) have progressed beyond these flashpoints. They are a waste of time and as many people have said, you can get better free gear than this FP gear.

If you want to do the flashpoints, find a group that still hasn't progressed.

On the subject of doing bonus bosses. The key word there is bonus, not a requirement. Again, I have no problem helping others out. But I also have a realistic view that some people don't have a lot of time to play and are maximizing their time by choosing what they want to do.

Yes ofcourse they are bonus bosses but I would say that 99.99% of the "fast run token chasers" automaticly exclude them and not telling the new players that they even exist.

Remember this is a constructive discussion regarding this aspect, I am not pointing fingers or anything only trying to bring this subject up to light

All i get frorm this whole thread is

 

"I can't seem to find like-minded players so i'll go complain and maybe bioware will give me a guild finder"

 

Get a guild or a group that wants to do the old content still. As the OP said, this game is about progression. 90%(made up statistic but probably very realistic) of the game(not including the new f2p players ofcourse) have progressed beyond these flashpoints. They are a waste of time and as many people have said, you can get better free gear than this FP gear.

 

If you want to do the flashpoints, find a group that still hasn't progressed.

Ofcourse this game is about progression, but how does a new player start doing that and feel welcome if all they see is steamrolling players skipping over half the flashpoint ?

Finding a group that has not progressed is not possible through groupfinder, it would be a a nice aspect to add though, One selection for "doing all bosses" and one selection "steamroll through, killing almost nothing"

Ofcourse this game is about progression, but how does a new player start doing that and feel welcome if all they see is steamrolling players skipping over half the flashpoint ?

 

Finding a group that has not progressed is not possible through groupfinder, it would be a a nice aspect to add though, One selection for "doing all bosses" and one selection "steamroll through, killing almost nothing"

Lol... this would eventually be obsolete as all the geared-out players who know the strats would select the "steamroll" option. Once the new players realize they'll only get other new players by selecting "all bosses" they'll quickly start doing "steamroll" selection and the few who desperately want "all bosses" will be waiting in queue for a long, long time.

All i get frorm this whole thread is

 

"I can't seem to find like-minded players so i'll go complain and maybe bioware will give me a guild finder"

 

Get a guild or a group that wants to do the old content still. As the OP said, this game is about progression. 90%(made up statistic but probably very realistic) of the game(not including the new f2p players ofcourse) have progressed beyond these flashpoints. They are a waste of time and as many people have said, you can get better free gear than this FP gear.

 

If you want to do the flashpoints, find a group that still hasn't progressed.

A little off topic, but if the wait time is sooo long for a DPS, roll up a tank. I switched my guardian from dps to tank and now I get gf'r hits immediately or no later than a few minutes after cueing. I have done enough fps to have both tank and dps gear pretty quickly. Do everyone a favor (including yourself) and roll or respec to a tank.

A little off topic

Yes it is

Do everyone a favor (including yourself) and roll or respec to a tank.

No, I would not change to tank only to play more often. I always play to have fun and to tank is not fun for me

I did several HM flashpoints tonight and in ALL of them the players assumed from the start that every boss that could be skipped would be skipped. The funny part is that when I convinced the groups to do bosses on the way many players needed on the stuff that dropped. It is a MYTH that every boss other then the final boss has useful loot, they drop exotech or other purple useful things sometimes.

A few of the "elite" players left instantly when I asked the team to kill bosses on the way, some even said they would put me on ignore ONLY for asking for other then "a quick run".

After have studied this for a while now with my 10 level 50s in different gearsettings, I can finally agree to my statment that there is a a gamebreaking behaviour going on within HM flashpoints. This can be very unfriendly for those that either want to play the game and have fun and be challenged by the different bosses or simply for those that needs gear because what they have is not enough for future gaming.

I strongly advise Bioware to look into this, they ask for player feedback......

This thread has lots of it

I did not bother reading all ten pages. It's all the same arguments I have heard for eight years (WoW has the same issue).

My take is this...

My response to killing "optional" bosses really depends on my mood. Most of the time, I am more than happy to take down an extra boss or even all bosses, IF a party member states specifically that they would like to do so. The problem is that very few EVER actually voice this request in chat in a timely manner. 99.99999% of the time the group is cruising along and only after we pass a boss does a member say something. Announce your request at the beginning of the instance and I have ZERO problem accommodating you.

That being said, there are times when I am simply in the mood to get in, get it done, and get out. And I appreciate that many other players are usually of this opinion. Therefore if the other group members are vehemently against doing more than is absolutely necessary, I'm sorry but majority rules (I abstain, one wants to do all bosses and two do not)

Further, tanks and healers, you do not have a stranglehold on what the group does. The HM FPs are not that hard. I have completed many with only three players + one companion (two DPS + player healer + companion healer works VERY well; and tank + one DPS + one DPS with some healing ability + a healing companion also works well). So your demands for the group to do what you want, should get you kicked not kowtowed to.

If the majority of the group wants to skip, you skip.

If the majority of the group does not want to skip, you don't skip.

Don't be selfish, one way or the other.

This thread reminded me of something that happened a few weeks ago: my friend(a tank) and I(a healer) que'd for a HM FP. We got two dps' that were subpar, one which admitted to being new to HMs. That was fine at the time, we weren't in a rush. It was MP anyway, which is a short FP.

My friend was joking around and took off his vest to look like he was naked-tanking. I laughed, took off my vest, and continued to heal him through mobs without any issue. A note here: our health was still higher than both dps'. I'm geared in almost full Dread Guard, with Hazmat implants/earpiece, so I just go to FPs for fun now. A few minutes later, one of the DPS' got pissed off and rage quit.

We probably shouldn't of joked around in a PUG... but... lol.

Yup...random story.

The problem is that very few EVER actually voice this request in chat in a timely manner. 99.99999% of the time the group is cruising along and only after we pass a boss does a member say something. Announce your request at the beginning of the instance and I have ZERO problem accommodating you.

Yes, I know nobody says anything because nobody wants a potential conflict or even end up on some tank/healers ignorelist. That is what has happened to me when I politely has asked at the start for more then what seems to be standard now, "a quick run" only killing what is outmost necessary.

They could just increase the aggro range of the avoidable bosses and to a lesser extent some trash. That would fix the problem.

Exactly, and make it so that all FP mobs and bosses will not reset while someone is still alive in the instance to prevent people from training off the boss after running far enough. Railroad all boss encounters, that way the people who need gear gets gear, people who don't do the community a good favor. If everyone is Dreadguard geared, I don't see the problem of forced boss encounter either. It will take you longer trying to run off the boss without Sprint/Speeder/Rocket Boots than LOLfacerolling it in 25 seconds.

Almost 32k shadow tank here so the only reason i use group finder is for the BH comms which help me gear up my alts.

I could do that too but I prefer to get the gear I need with the character I play.

I am sure that your alts, fresh dinged 50 dressed in recruitgear would appreciate a piece of exotech or that purple earpiece/implant that some bosses drop

I still don't understand the use of the term 'gamebreaking' in this thread.

In my interpretation, gamebreaking refers to practices that makes some part of the game either unplayable or so unenjoyable that no one participates. That's clearly not the case here.