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Sage changes incoming for 3.0

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Sage / Sorcerer
Sage changes incoming for 3.0

Macetheace's Avatar


Macetheace
11.16.2014 , 08:19 PM | #1
So, the other thread went ahead and did one for the Sorcs, here is what I discovered for the sage.
http://dulfy.net/2014/10/13/swtor-di...r-swtor_miner/

General:
  • Gameplay style remains essentiallly the same, with a few QoL improvements and the new ability, Nothing extravagant
  • Abilities have moved around, you get different things at very different levels on some abilities, others unchanged
  • Utilities are now shared by all specs,but you can only choose 7 out of the 21 available, with certain restrictions, like 3 must come from Tier 1, and you can't get more than 2 from Tier 3 - Heroic
  • You can reset your utlities without resetting or changing your Discipline, but changing your discipline will auto reset your utilities

Telekinetics:
Biggest changes:
  • -ve or possibly a bug == no more use for TK throw on this spec as psychic projection is gone from the discipline but they could have been meant to roll into another skill though, as it was a good mechanic and gave the spec a use for TK throw.
  • +ve = new instant high damage ability
  • new raid buffs (overwhelm, vulnerable and Force Empowerment

Skills
  1. Telekinetic Wave now targets up to 8 targets up from 5 and cast time is 2.5 secs, down from 3.
  2. Turbulence cast time down to 1.5 secs from 2
  3. Telekinetic Burst can also trigger a Tidal force and instant TK wave is no longer free but costs 50% less force
  4. **NEW** Resonating Vibrations at level 16 increase the crit of Force Quake by 15% and it's surge by 30%
  5. Concentration: now reduces pushback by 75% (up from 70%) with Telekinetic bolt added to TK wave, Disturbance, Mind Crush and Turbulence. No longer increases force regeneration on using disturbance, but taking direct damage gains you Concentration which causes your next Disturbance or TK burst to activate instantly once every 8secs, lasts for 15 secs
  6. Cascading force now has Mind's Eye rolled into it and boosts the range of ALL force attacks by 5 m and not just Dist, TK wave and Turb, it causes TK wave to immobilizes targets for 0.5 secs and slow them by 50% for 6 secs
  7. Mental Momentum now also causes Mind Crush to make the target vulnerable increasing damage from all force attacks by 5%
  8. Clamoring Force, REWORKED Force Speed give 2 stacks of Clamoring Force which allows Disturbance and TK burst to be activated instantly
  9. Telekinetic Momentum: TK Burst can also gain the momentum and TK wave now overwhelms targets causing them to take 10% additional damage from AoE attacks
  10. NEW Telekinetic Focal Point: Damage dealt by TK wave and TK Gust has a 100% chance and damage dealt by Disturbance and TK Burst has a 50% chance to grant Focal Telekinetics, which increases alacrity by 1%. Stacks up to 5 times, lasts 15 secs
  11. Reveberation: Mind Crush and TK Gust added to the list, Disturbance removed, And now increases their surge by 30% down from 50%
  12. Tremors: no longer gives force bonus damage of 3%, but grants unshakeable for 4 secs if you're interrupted,
  13. NEW Mental Continuum: Direct damage dealt by your Mind Crush and TK wave abilities refreshes the duration of your Weaken Mind on affected targets. In addition, TK Burst increases your Force regeneration rate by 10% for 10 secs, Stacks up to 3 times.

Damage Increases:
NEW TK Gust: Does more damage than Turb, is instant, and reduces the cast time of
  • Mind Crush by 0.5 secs
  • TK Burst: is Disturbance with more damage, damage close to Turb now
  • Forcequake 15% crit increase and 30% surge
  • Overwhelm and Vulnerable from TK wave and Mind Crush 10% to AoE and 5% to force attacks (balance also gets)
  • 5% Alacrity but on build up
.


Damage nerfs
  • Lost 3% increased force damage from Tremors
  • Lost the Crit chance skills from old Seer and Balance trees namely Penetrating light (3% crit) and Critical Kinesis (6% to Dist/TK wave
  • Psychic Projections is GONE !! - Mind Crush crits no longer speed up TK throw - this is a big change, and makes little sense, because with disciplines, there's no way now for balance hybrids to get this, and further, this kept TK throw in the rotation. Now both Project and TK throw, core Sage abilities find no use in TK at all, and this is weird, because these are the signature abilities of telekinetics - which lets you throw objects with your mind...
  • Reverbration surge is cut down to 30% (from 50%)

Mobility Help & Defense
2 opportunities for instant disturbance/TK Burst - on being hit (icd =8s) and on Force speed
TK wave immobilizing for 0.5 secs and slowing targets for 6 secs

The rest of the defense comes in the form of utilities but they are available to all sages

Balance:
  1. Force in Balance hits up to 8 targets up from 5 and heals for 10% of the damage done instead of 1% of max health for each target hit.
  2. Psychic Barrier now removes pushback from TK throw, Force Serenity gains 75% pushback protection, Mind crush is removed from pushback protection (it doesn't reallly need it in this spec.)
  3. Presence of Mind: Gives it's bonus now to Vanquish as well as Dist & Mind Crush, but at 4 stacks up from 3 and 25% damage, down from 35%
  4. Sever Force: No longer has a cooldown, but the immobilizing effect can only occur once every 9 scs
  5. Critical Kinesis: Force serenity now benefits in addition to Disturbance, down from 6% to 5% and no longer effects TK throw
  6. New: Abundant Justice: Force in Balance spreads your Weaken Mind and Sever Force to the targets it damages, as long as it damages targets already affected by your Weaken Mind and Sever Force. In addition, Force in Balance overwhelms its targets for 45 seconds. overwhlemed targets take 10% more damage from area attacks
  7. Rippling Force: TK throw has a 20% chance (up from 10%) to cause rippling force, Force Serenity has a 60% chance too, but disturbance can no longer give a rippling force.
  8. Mental scarring instead now has DoTs do 15% more damage on targets below 30% health and lets Force Serenity restore 15 force on targets affected by Force suprression.
  9. Mind Warp now also increases the duration of Vanquish
  10. Focused Insight now doubles the health you get from Force Serenitiy and Force in Balance and grants WM and and Sever Force to now also heal you for 25% of their damage done
  11. Psychic Projection is now in the balance tree and simply lets TK throw tick twice as quickly always
  12. NEW Mind's Eye each time force suppression is consumed you gain 2 Force
Damage Buffs
  • Abundant Justice: grants overwhelmed = 10% more damage from AoE attacks
  • NEW: Force Serenity new ability
  • 15% more damage from dots to targets under 30% health
  • TK throw ticks twice as fast always

Nerfs:
  • Presence of mind boosts Mind Crush/Dist by 20% down from 35%
  • Disturbance gains 5% instead of 6% crit chance boost from critical kinesis and Tk throw is not buffed any longer by this
  • The crit bonus boost to FiB and the periodic damage is gone and The bonus damage to TK Throw from Sever Force is gone. These aren't really nerfs cos the damage is now rolled into an adjusted TK throwk altho the mechanic of needing sever force for harding it TK throw is gone, reudcing skill factor


Thoughts
  • Changes will seem bigger alterations to your rotation than TK got, TK remains the same, losing TK throw but gaining TK gust, balance though gains new abilities and more interesting variation which it needed with Force Serenity
  • Both new abilities have cast times to them, but they make balance more interesting, it's no longer just spam TK throw and refresh dots and mind crush, You see on Balance I can understand not using Project, which has Telekinetics written all over it, Project is burst damage, not DoT etc, even though it would be nice to have it useable.

ANALYSIS
TK vs Balance
TK advantage = burst, greater range because it is less mobile
Balance advantage = mobilitiy, high damage on the move with multi dotting

TK is commonly referred to as the Burst spec and Balance the sustained dps spec. There is no reason why one spec should do more damage overall than the other if you take a window of roughly 10 mins. Not a case that sustained should do more damage than burst, or vice versa, they should do the same, but differently, which will allow one to be better in certain types of fights and the other in others, but ultimately it's a style preference.

Burst specs are usually up and down, they have high damage periods and low damage ones, the frequency depends on the design, whiles sustained specs churn out constant damage but have a little bit of a ramp up time.

This typically leads to sustained specs being easier to manage, less complicated as a trade off, whiles burst take a bit more skill, short fights, will advantage the burst specs as he will have a sequence of his high damage cooldowns, medium fights will advantage the sustained spec, because while he is churning out constantly high damage, the burst spec could be caught up in a low damage period and not have enough time to go into the high damage phase to make up for the lost damage in the low phase.

To that effect, bioware have designed this class to order. Typically you want the two specs when optimized and mastered to be no more than 50 dps apart on a dummy fight. Bigger variations will occur in an actual fight, for example if TK leads Balance like it did for the first half of 2.0 on the dummy, in actual fights, balanced tended to out perform because hitting dummy dps was a much harder ordeal for TK than it was for Balance.

ideally you want players to be able to choose one spec and be fine enough regardless of the fight, but for the specialists that need to squeeze the most out, it would be advantageous if they mastered both specs and switched in fights where the appropriate spec was better suited for.

To that ordeal you also do things like vary how they handle multiple adds, and 3.0 has TK and Balance handle them exactly like their spec should, TK is bursty on the AoE, and Balance can spread the aoe's wide but have a build up time. Traditionally, TK has been stronger on AoE fights, it was a caveat for being harder, now it's much closer, and would likely end up with Balance slighly but only just , higher overall on single damage, and TK slightly overall higher with multiple targets.

In PvP, burst is a big advantage, which TK has, however, so is mobility, which Balance has, balance has improved burst, TK improved mobility in 3.0,however balance is still more mobile, and TK still more bursty

Dev Question:
My question to the devs remains: Will Sages ever have a use for Project the signature ability of a master force user at telekinetics, and why did you remove the ability that let targets with weaken mind on them getting hit by disturbance causes TK throw to tick twice as fast, this was really neat because it gave you a cause to use TK throw on the TK tree, and gave you a nice synergy connection between 3 abilities, WM, dist and TK throw. There should be more caveats like that and it's a crying shame the TK tree doesn't have use for the most iconic telekinectic abilities, Project and TK throw, i'm sorry, I love the new stuff, but you have to add psychic projection to TK again, and add project to some of the more interesting abilities in the TK tree, you can have the Balance discipline have it's TK balance ability at level 12 make TK throw instant and tick twice as fast automatically with no set up needed.

Pyshcic projection was one of the very good things of Telekinectics.

Where are the really cool new abilities? Past two expansions have been very conservative for sages in a game that stole my video game heart with it's cool abilities and imagination in combat. Whiles expedient, abilities like TK Gust/BUrst , Force Serenity /Vanquish don't have the smae wow factor as say a Mass project ability or an ability like floating lightsaber which gives range class the long awaited more use of it's lightsaber but still remaining range because it uses the force to control the lightsaber from range. that would have been so cool, like last boss in Force Unleashed or the DK in Wow's dancing rune ability - the sage could have even had the floating lightsaber have a bar of some melee abilities like strike, double strike, shadow strike that it would auto use, meleeing away while the sage is at range, or the sage could have channelled the ability to gain greater use of it and actually use it's melee abilities through the lightsaber.. the best thing would have been that if floating lightsaber was up, the sage would be able to use any of it's melee abilities through it while at range. That way at least some of the shadow abilities could now be available to all consulars, and at least the sages would have a way of using their lightsabers a bit more without becoming melee. That would have been cool

Conclusion
Some good work here, I'm liking the faster TK wave on balance, also being able to spread dots.
For TK I'm liking the help with movement with greater opportunities. I was getting really excited about the changes for TK too but the killing of TK throw in the spec and no love for project have dampened that somewhat, Balance though is looking sweeter, it at least has no baseline ability rotation removals and loving the idea of spreading dots.

I like having new abilities, but some refining. for e.g., having a new instant spell in TK Gust is sweet, but project is also an instant spell and is sitting there useless, would be nice if they got some use, maybe TK Gust boosts project so there is more interplay. Also don't like TK throw being lost to the spec it sort of feels like a it's fake new stuff, you give TK gust and burst, but remove TK throws relevance and project still useless.
I can understand TK burst replacing Disturbance for the purpose of distinguishing TK abilities more from Balance, a good trend to continue into the future, but seeing balance still gets to use disturbance, let TK use TK throw as before, and let both have some stronger use for Project.

e.g. Telekinetic Current - damage from TK wave, TK Gust and TK Burst build TK current, when full, your next TK wave ticks twice as fast and each damage from it supercharges your project to deal twice as much damage.
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Macetheace's Avatar


Macetheace
11.16.2014 , 08:25 PM | #2
HEALING - SEER DISCIPLINE
Watch this space, Seer changes coming soon, possibly tomorrow
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Macetheace's Avatar


Macetheace
11.16.2014 , 08:34 PM | #3
Would I change anything? hmm. Keep as is, it's good work, but with these 3 additions.

1. restore the use of TK throw to TK discipline by rolling the old effect of psychic projection into one of the TK talents
2. Give all sages the floating lightsaber as a new ability - it's essentially a low level dot they can have up a fair bit and boost it through skills in 4.0, but for now, whiles it's up double strike and strike go off the GCD but gain a 1.5 sec cooldown allowing the sage to use them from range through the floating lightsaber.
3. Give Project a reason to be used at least once every now and then
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Master-Nala's Avatar


Master-Nala
11.16.2014 , 08:57 PM | #4
Quote:
Presence of mind boosts Mind Crush/Dist by 25% down from 35%
Disturbance gains 5% instead of 6% crit chance boost from critical kinesis and Tk throw is not buffed any longer by this
Also:

The crit bonus boost to FiB and the periodic damage is gone
The bonus damage to TK Throw from Sever Force is gone
Presence of Mind's damage boost was reduced from 35% to 20%
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TACeMossie's Avatar


TACeMossie
11.16.2014 , 11:28 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Master-Nala View Post
Also:

The crit bonus boost to FiB and the periodic damage is gone
The bonus damage to TK Throw from Sever Force is gone
Presence of Mind's damage boost was reduced from 35% to 20%
Hey, if you took TK throw, and made it do 4 ticks of damage every 2 seconds (instead of 3), you'd be doing upwards of 5k dps on live by simply using TK Throw on a target affected by sever force (and nothing else). So of course all the buffs to TK throw were dropped :P

Now... the question is will Disturbance/Mind Crush/Force Leech/Weaken Mind/Sever Force/Force in Balance be worth using with TK throw being as strong as it is...
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Master-Nala's Avatar


Master-Nala
11.17.2014 , 06:16 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by TACeMossie View Post
Hey, if you took TK throw, and made it do 4 ticks of damage every 2 seconds (instead of 3), you'd be doing upwards of 5k dps on live by simply using TK Throw on a target affected by sever force (and nothing else). So of course all the buffs to TK throw were dropped :P
Well, they were dropped prior to that change, but your point is well taken. That's a very yummy buff, I'm looking forward to it.

Quote:
Now... the question is will Disturbance/Mind Crush/Force Leech/Weaken Mind/Sever Force/Force in Balance be worth using with TK throw being as strong as it is...
I'm thinking Disturbance may lose out. The others, except Mind Crush, also help with survivability and so will be used anyway.
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TACeMossie's Avatar


TACeMossie
11.17.2014 , 07:39 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Master-Nala View Post
I'm thinking Disturbance may lose out. The others, except Mind Crush, also help with survivability and so will be used anyway.
That and I just realised I said Mind Crush instead of Vanquish, and Mind Crush is definitely worthless once you pick up Vanquish :P
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Aienir's Avatar


Aienir
11.18.2014 , 06:12 AM | #8
I believe the removal of Lightning Barrage (faster Force Lightning cast for Sorcs) was due to them wanting to have Lightning Flash take it's place in the rotation... I'll have to re-watch the video again but I remember something along the lines of that.
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Macetheace's Avatar


Macetheace
11.19.2014 , 04:30 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Aienir View Post
I believe the removal of Lightning Barrage (faster Force Lightning cast for Sorcs) was due to them wanting to have Lightning Flash take it's place in the rotation... I'll have to re-watch the video again but I remember something along the lines of that.
cant we have both? it's not that complex to have both
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Aienir
11.20.2014 , 09:52 AM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Macetheace View Post
cant we have both? it's not that complex to have both
You can still cast it, but it will be less damage. It could be with the changes in 3.0 that even a quicker cast Force Lightning would be lower DPS than just spamming Lightning Bolt considering all the buffs/procs that Lightning Bolt gets. I believe (don't hold me on this) that there are no more buffs to Force Lightning anywhere in the Lightning tree, so it could be Lightning Bolt spam > quick cost Force Lightning.
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