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Tanks and threat.


AdreanKael's Avatar


AdreanKael
04.24.2019 , 02:52 PM | #1
I've noticed when running MMs that if I don't use threat mitigation abilities tanks lose aggro very quickly to me. I have yet to run across a tank who does not lost aggro to me at least a few times during a boss fight even with threat mitigation. So I got curious and looked up the guides for tanking and immediately I noticed an issue.

Tanks seem to be forced to use force taunts in their rotation. Why? Should those skills not be reserved for moments where things go wrong or for tank swaps? Every guide I've seen says to use force taunts in tank rotation. This is the only MMO I've ever played where tanks have to use force taunts to maintain threat.

It seems to me that, when I que for MMs, it's almost always tanks who are needed. I'm curious if this is because no one wants to play the role because they have issues like this? How long has this been an issue for tanks? Honestly I thought all tanks just sucked but if it's really a design flaw in the role then maybe EA, Bioware should do something about it.

LD_Little_Dragon's Avatar


LD_Little_Dragon
04.24.2019 , 04:08 PM | #2
Tuant is not supposed to be used on cooldown, especially since some bosses drop aggro regularly, but there are times you have to.

This is part of the reason tanks have been switching some tank mods to dps mods. You hit harder and can maintain threat better. I find when running with top-geared dps that my tank (running with lethal mods and dps relics) will sometimes lose aggro even when using their high-threat abilities on cooldown. You guard one dps, and the another one then gets aggro.

Burst dps will get threat faster than dot dps but all types of dps can end up taking aggro in longer fights.

Good dps have to be prepared to handle a litte aggro sometimes. You do have threat drops for a reason, and most classes have a short-term dcd they can toss up until the tank gets the boss back.

That's part of the reason I like stealth classes, you have the basic threat drop, and then combat stealth which is the ultimate 'reset threat to zero' threat drop.
Stealthy heals, stealthy dps, stealthy tank.

AdreanKael's Avatar


AdreanKael
04.25.2019 , 05:30 PM | #3
The way I see it tanks should be able to generate enough threat to handle the dps going full on not even taking the fraction of a second to use the OGCD threat reduction. Tanks have enough to worry about already with their position, the bosses position, adds and mitigation CDs on top of dps rotation and mechanics. Its counter productive to have them have to worry about threat too. What's so game breaking about them generating half the dps but 4 times the threat? Does them generating too much threat break the game? No. One of these days a company is going to come along and realize this and the rest of us who don't tank won't have to wait in que for 30 minutes waiting for a tank because no one wants to play the role.

LD_Little_Dragon's Avatar


LD_Little_Dragon
04.25.2019 , 11:07 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by AdreanKael View Post
One of these days a company is going to come along and realize this and the rest of us who don't tank won't have to wait in que for 30 minutes waiting for a tank because no one wants to play the role.
While I do want my high threat abilities to work better, it's not anything to do with maintaining aggro that makes me leave que and go solo flashpoints instead.

Tanks tend to run with friends/guild members for a reason.

You get a lot more bad dps then good ones. Not so much that they can't dps, but they can't follow the simplest rule of 'let the tank lead'.

You want more tanks in que? Get rid of the dps who want to pull the fights.

(I can't understand those dps who pull enemies. When I dps I don't want aggro, and am more than happy to let the tank take the hits.)
Stealthy heals, stealthy dps, stealthy tank.

AdreanKael's Avatar


AdreanKael
04.27.2019 , 12:44 AM | #5
I don't know why a dps would do that in anything that requires a tank. A dead dps is zero dps.

Syroe's Avatar


Syroe
06.01.2019 , 05:57 AM | #6
If you're losing aggro to one mob in a trash pack, that's...meh, it happens for a number of reasons and it's ultimately irrelevant since trash packs tend to melt before they can do any sort of real damage.
If it's on a boss, then I'd say it's a new-ish tank; still unfamiliar with the ins and outs of their class.

The triple taunt opener usually means that you'll never lose aggro(unless it's a boss mechanic).

ElevenBfour's Avatar


ElevenBfour
08.14.2019 , 08:40 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by LD_Little_Dragon View Post
While I do want my high threat abilities to work better, it's not anything to do with maintaining aggro that makes me leave que and go solo flashpoints instead.

Tanks tend to run with friends/guild members for a reason.

You get a lot more bad dps then good ones. Not so much that they can't dps, but they can't follow the simplest rule of 'let the tank lead'.

You want more tanks in que? Get rid of the dps who want to pull the fights.

(I can't understand those dps who pull enemies. When I dps I don't want aggro, and am more than happy to let the tank take the hits.)
I recently had this discussion on an MMO discord channel. People wanting Dev's to take away the need for tanks. Myself and probably 3 or 4 other players that play tanks regularly chimed in that none of us ever pug groups. We said we dont' think the tank shortage is as bad as it appears, more that tanks don't want to play with bad/disrepsectful players which, in my experience is literally 8 out of every ten pugs, and thats being generous. I know and have heard lots of tanks saying they never pug.

Players used to be more respectful than they are now a days.

Jethsidi's Avatar


Jethsidi
12.06.2019 , 04:36 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by AdreanKael View Post
The way I see it tanks should be able to generate enough threat to handle the dps going full on not even taking the fraction of a second to use the OGCD threat reduction. Tanks have enough to worry about already with their position, the bosses position, adds and mitigation CDs on top of dps rotation and mechanics. Its counter productive to have them have to worry about threat too. What's so game breaking about them generating half the dps but 4 times the threat? Does them generating too much threat break the game? No. One of these days a company is going to come along and realize this and the rest of us who don't tank won't have to wait in que for 30 minutes waiting for a tank because no one wants to play the role.
If they aren't holding threat properly there's basically 2 explanations:

1: it's a group pull and you happen to be full-DPSing a target in the group they hit only with their opening AoE. Not really anyone's fault tbf, just a targeting thing.

2: they don't know their proper threat rotation.

Even on Juggernaut (my favorite Tank class, who has the worst AoE threat holding in the game) I've been running MM's all week and the only time people pull off me is scenario 1. And the only time I'm using AoE taunt is when I get chain-bumped by mobs (great mechanic in FP's BioWare...) and am not able to actually perform my opening rotation.
Don't ever learn how to tank.
They won't let you do anything else once they know you are good at it.

ianwelshy's Avatar


ianwelshy
12.08.2019 , 04:50 AM | #9
OMG!!!!!! I hve been waiting for ppl to realise why I never pug because I ALWAYS ALWAYS get the blame for dps dying when in fact it is the opposite they r at fault cos they go running in head first and get aggro never ever understand why they dont they listen to me when I say LET ME GET AGGRO it is not difficult.
What makes it harder is that when u r a up and coming tank no-one in pug gives u a minute which is why I try and run with guild. I feel srry for heals because they also get a hard time from not healing right when in fact they r doing their job helping us tanks out healing us if dps did not run in and die they would not need heals to save them.

Jethsidi's Avatar


Jethsidi
12.11.2019 , 06:10 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by ianwelshy View Post
OMG!!!!!! I hve been waiting for ppl to realise why I never pug because I ALWAYS ALWAYS get the blame for dps dying when in fact it is the opposite they r at fault cos they go running in head first and get aggro never ever understand why they dont they listen to me when I say LET ME GET AGGRO it is not difficult.
What makes it harder is that when u r a up and coming tank no-one in pug gives u a minute which is why I try and run with guild. I feel srry for heals because they also get a hard time from not healing right when in fact they r doing their job helping us tanks out healing us if dps did not run in and die they would not need heals to save them.
Tanking 101: If the DPS pull before you do (not if they pull OFF you), just stand there and watch them die.
Don't ever learn how to tank.
They won't let you do anything else once they know you are good at it.