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PvP Suggestion: Revising Electro Net

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
PvP Suggestion: Revising Electro Net

Lhancelot's Avatar


Lhancelot
06.12.2019 , 08:44 AM | #161
Quote: Originally Posted by kissingaiur View Post
I have a personal vendetta when suggestion reasonable changes for an old ability that is arguably the most powerful in the whole game. I'm really confused what your trying to imply here. I find this accusation rather humorous.

If i had an vendetta i wouldn't be here discussing changes i would demand its removal. You can see that is clearly not the case

You know unlike major of people on forums when I come to discuss a topic I am open to players changing my mind, which even has been done so far on this thread if they can defend their position. I am not here to listen to myself speak I am here to discuss a topic and see what others have to say about it.
It's been a topic since it's inception and debated/discussed since then, too.

If you nerf it, then the classes that already seem impossible to kill will only be granted that much more freedom if they can get a 90 sec immunity from E-net.
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthSpuds View Post
I've lost more SWTOR friends to excessive grind than to any other factor! Too many game companies think more grind = more player engagement = more player satisfaction - it doesn't. RNG is lazy, RNG is cheap, RNG is counterproductive because it massively increases player dissatisfaction.

Rion_Starkiller's Avatar


Rion_Starkiller
06.12.2019 , 08:50 AM | #162
I think the only reason e-net was acceptable in the past is because Commandos & Mercs didn't have the massive DCD's that they have now (like Hottie said in the OP). With the exception of a few unicorns (like Chasso, Hop on pre-4.0 Shadowlands) nobody cared because they were (mostly) useless squishlords.

OT: Why were mercs given so many DCD's when all they were really lacking in was mobility/movement speed? They move at snail speed. Hold the Line raises them to turtle speed. Even snipers/slingers have more mobility -- and they're traditionally turrets.
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Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
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kissingaiur's Avatar


kissingaiur
06.12.2019 , 09:29 AM | #163
Quote: Originally Posted by Lhancelot View Post
It's been a topic since it's inception and debated/discussed since then, too.

If you nerf it, then the classes that already seem impossible to kill will only be granted that much more freedom if they can get a 90 sec immunity from E-net.
not really, the topic is something that was brought up from time to time but it was never really on a massive scale (such as i said) for example as when ap pts were overpowered, or operative healers or sorc healers or merc dcds. everyone was cry about those topics everywhere till they were nerfed. Those imbalances were wildly discussed in almost every circle. Like i say again, no one complained like that about mercs net because they were just bad. Only a handful of players played the class. they were mediocre in regs, trash in solo ranked and never used in teams ; there is no reason to complain about it because there was no one was playing it. multiple nets were something you had to deal with every blue moon


Quote: Originally Posted by Lhancelot View Post
If you nerf it, then the classes that already seem impossible to kill will only be granted that much more freedom if they can get a 90 sec immunity from E-net.
The issue with net isn't just one its when there is multiple mercs on one team or another. This really isn't an issue for team ranked because no one (to my knowledge) uses multiple mercs; there is class diversity in teams of the most part. In the other game pvp functions, solo ranked and regs there is no real class segregation between the teams, so the issue becomes more apparent

if you honestly believe that multiple nets on a target is the only way you can kill anything in swtor, that is an absurd notion.
Hothothothothothotho
"I need you all to know that Iíve transcended ranked pvp by reading about it on the forums"
5.6 PvP Operative Healing / twitch.tv/kissingaiur

kissingaiur's Avatar


kissingaiur
06.12.2019 , 09:44 AM | #164
Quote: Originally Posted by Rion_Starkiller View Post

OT: Why were mercs given so many DCD's when all they were really lacking in was mobility/movement speed? They move at snail speed. Hold the Line raises them to turtle speed. Even snipers/slingers have more mobility -- and they're traditionally turrets.
In my opinion this is because the style of merc fit more into a PvE environment. They were a turret dps and a bit of a glass cannon. The game has PvE too not every class in PvP is balanced for PvP, they are also centered around PvE. Mercs style isn't really made for PvP combat where mobility and instants are what makes classes great. That is why I said the class has issues, they didn't need multiple dcds, they needed 1 escape, more mobility and other ways of doing damage when tunneled.
Hothothothothothotho
"I need you all to know that Iíve transcended ranked pvp by reading about it on the forums"
5.6 PvP Operative Healing / twitch.tv/kissingaiur

RACATW's Avatar


RACATW
06.12.2019 , 10:07 AM | #165
Quote: Originally Posted by Lhancelot View Post
It's been a topic since it's inception and debated/discussed since then, too.

If you nerf it, then the classes that already seem impossible to kill will only be granted that much more freedom if they can get a 90 sec immunity from E-net.
I dont think thats the case. I haven't seen a single person complain about gore to date.

See... Enet is 90 second cd for a full 9 seconds, whereas gore is 1.5 for 15 seconds. Multiply by 6 and you get 9 each (gore and enet).

Gores duration is far shorter in practice and that's why people don't complain about gore. You can adapt to gore, and there's no punishment for moving away, which people have to do, to LoS snipers or back out of melee range while they're rooted.

You can also predict gore, due to it's much shorter range (it's not a 30m ability)

JediMasterAlex's Avatar


JediMasterAlex
06.12.2019 , 10:22 AM | #166
Quote: Originally Posted by kissingaiur View Post
In my opinion this is because the style of merc fit more into a PvE environment. They were a turret dps and a bit of a glass cannon. The game has PvE too not every class in PvP is balanced for PvP, they are also centered around PvE. Mercs style isn't really made for PvP combat where mobility and instants are what makes classes great. That is why I said the class has issues, they didn't need multiple dcds, they needed 1 escape, more mobility and other ways of doing damage when tunneled.
Obviously I agree with your reasoning for nerfing multiple nets, but your other characterizations of mercs confuse me. You say that "mobility and instants are what makes classes great," yet mercs are undeniably better in pvp now than any other dps class. So clearly that isn't the case. Mercs' dcds, which make them the most resistant to tunneling of any dps, are what make them the best class. Whether they "needed" them, or whether Bioware should have given them more mobility instead, is a different story.

To take the extreme example, sorc dps vs merc dps. This isn't even a contest. Dps sorcs obviously have much better mobility, yet they are clearly inferior to dps mercs in every situation (assuming equal skill obviously).

And let's say they took away or drastically nerfed some of mercs' dcds and gave them more mobility. Wouldn't that just pretty much make them sorcs? I think the style of play for mercs is perfectly fine as is, they just need their dcds toned down and they would be well-balanced.

Delani's Avatar


Delani
06.12.2019 , 10:52 AM | #167
Quote: Originally Posted by kissingaiur View Post
not really, the topic is something that was brought up from time to time but it was never really on a massive scale (such as i said) for example as when ap pts were overpowered, or operative healers or sorc healers or merc dcds. everyone was cry about those topics everywhere till they were nerfed. Those imbalances were wildly discussed in almost every circle. Like i say again, no one complained like that about mercs net because they were just bad. Only a handful of players played the class. they were mediocre in regs, trash in solo ranked and never used in teams ; there is no reason to complain about it because there was no one was playing it. multiple nets were something you had to deal with every blue moon




The issue with net isn't just one its when there is multiple mercs on one team or another. This really isn't an issue for team ranked because no one (to my knowledge) uses multiple mercs; there is class diversity in teams of the most part. In the other game pvp functions, solo ranked and regs there is no real class segregation between the teams, so the issue becomes more apparent

if you honestly believe that multiple nets on a target is the only way you can kill anything in swtor, that is an absurd notion.
Nerfing is never good because you are taking away stuff from people, you should always give people more stuff in order to compete with the OP classes.

Delani's Avatar


Delani
06.12.2019 , 11:01 AM | #168
Quote: Originally Posted by JediMasterAlex View Post

And let's say they took away or drastically nerfed some of mercs' dcds and gave them more mobility. Wouldn't that just pretty much make them sorcs? I think the style of play for mercs is perfectly fine as is, they just need their dcds toned down and they would be well-balanced.
No, they are perfect, leave them the way they are. Just buff other class, especially since spoils of war and new abilities are inbound. Also its easy to kite a merc out of their dcds which makes them not so OP as many people think.

kissingaiur's Avatar


kissingaiur
06.12.2019 , 11:02 AM | #169
Quote: Originally Posted by Delani View Post
Nerfing is never good because you are taking away stuff from people, you should always give people more stuff in order to compete with the OP classes.
you could literally say the same with buffing classes; its just one side of the coin

true balance comes from tweaking, that means buffing and nerfing slightly to adjust an ability to where it needs to be. this isnt a perfect world where developers put something into the game and it's completely balanced ; there will be things that are added that need to be removed. that is reality
Hothothothothothotho
"I need you all to know that Iíve transcended ranked pvp by reading about it on the forums"
5.6 PvP Operative Healing / twitch.tv/kissingaiur

Rion_Starkiller's Avatar


Rion_Starkiller
06.12.2019 , 11:17 AM | #170
Quote: Originally Posted by JediMasterAlex View Post
And let's say they took away or drastically nerfed some of mercs' dcds and gave them more mobility. Wouldn't that just pretty much make them sorcs? I think the style of play for mercs is perfectly fine as is, they just need their dcds toned down and they would be well-balanced.
Hmm maybe. Then again, mobility/predation is one of the reasons why Maras + Mercs have great synergy.
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Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Lies have been corrected.