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Please can you increase the guild ban list limit

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Please can you increase the guild ban list limit

Xina_LA's Avatar


Xina_LA
02.12.2020 , 08:20 AM | #21
If guilds could ban people by Legacy, it wouldn't be an issue.

Managing a big guild is a lot of work. It shouldn't be a part-time job full of drama. If you split up the work with multiple officers, trying to get a little free time to actually play the game, there's more chance something will go sideways, and there are always people who can charm their way around any recruitment process.

Any tools that make guild management easier and faster are a great idea.
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DarkTergon's Avatar


DarkTergon
02.12.2020 , 11:17 AM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by Xina_LA View Post
If guilds could ban people by Legacy, it wouldn't be an issue.
.

You can ban people by legacy.....
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jedimasterjac's Avatar


jedimasterjac
02.12.2020 , 01:45 PM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by Xina_LA View Post
If guilds could ban people by Legacy, it wouldn't be an issue.

Managing a big guild is a lot of work. It shouldn't be a part-time job full of drama. If you split up the work with multiple officers, trying to get a little free time to actually play the game, there's more chance something will go sideways, and there are always people who can charm their way around any recruitment process.

Any tools that make guild management easier and faster are a great idea.
Guild bans are legacy bans.
Quote: Originally Posted by Grand Master Yoda
We are what they grow beyond. That is the burden of all masters.

jedimasterjac's Avatar


jedimasterjac
02.12.2020 , 01:47 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by merovejec View Post
There you go, this is exactly the issue. You preemptively ban people! No wonder you have reached the limit. So someone writes he doesnt like gays and you are gay so you will ban him upfront if he tries to enter you guild. I mean thats a bit crazy, dont you think?

As you said 1000 may not be enough, but where will it end? I tell you where, when there will be 10000 players in the game and from those 3000 will be in your 3 guilds and 7000 will be baned to enter, maybe then you will be satisfied. As it was said in this thread even 100 ppl limit for ban should be enough. If you however stand on fleet and read chat and ban people "just in case" then you will need an endless limit (which will damage the game in the end).

On one side I feel sorry for you having such a big guild because its an unnecessary burden, you attract all of the scum in this game, god knows why. On the other side, thats what you get when you overdo it.
I mean, I run my guild with a zero tolerance for bigotry.

But there's no reason to ban people. I just don't invite them. Joining my guild has a specific process anyway, so trolls and dinguses are typically filtered out.
Quote: Originally Posted by Grand Master Yoda
We are what they grow beyond. That is the burden of all masters.

aerockyul's Avatar


aerockyul
02.12.2020 , 02:24 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by merovejec View Post
There you go, this is exactly the issue. You preemptively ban people! No wonder you have reached the limit. So someone writes he doesnt like gays and you are gay so you will ban him upfront if he tries to enter you guild. I mean thats a bit crazy, dont you think?

As you said 1000 may not be enough, but where will it end? I tell you where, when there will be 10000 players in the game and from those 3000 will be in your 3 guilds and 7000 will be baned to enter, maybe then you will be satisfied. As it was said in this thread even 100 ppl limit for ban should be enough. If you however stand on fleet and read chat and ban people "just in case" then you will need an endless limit (which will damage the game in the end).

On one side I feel sorry for you having such a big guild because its an unnecessary burden, you attract all of the scum in this game, god knows why. On the other side, thats what you get when you overdo it.
It's his guild, he has that freedom as much as the troll has the freedom to continue alienating everyone around them. Conversely why does it harm you if you're not a troll that a guild is banning other people for whatever reason? If that offends you why would you want to be in that guild? If you're not a troll then the ban wouldn't harm you. I don't see why adding an integer to the ban limit code would so adversely affect someone to so strongly fight against it (again, especially if you had nothing to hide)
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sharkfishman's Avatar


sharkfishman
02.12.2020 , 03:14 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by aerockyul View Post
It's his guild, he has that freedom as much as the troll has the freedom to continue alienating everyone around them. Conversely why does it harm you if you're not a troll that a guild is banning other people for whatever reason? If that offends you why would you want to be in that guild? If you're not a troll then the ban wouldn't harm you. I don't see why adding an integer to the ban limit code would so adversely affect someone to so strongly fight against it (again, especially if you had nothing to hide)
I've noticed the tendency, at least on Satele Shan, to move away from general chat and form groups mostly using an elite chat channel that most players don't even know exist. I don't know if this practice will last or not, but it makes it hard to participate in many activities without being one of the select few.

The thing is, most of the players using this channel belong to or are friends with one of the biggest guilds on the server. The one that tops conquest every week, with none coming close.

However, there I've also noticed a tendency to call out players of a few specific guilds. These guilds are not invited to participate in activities, and players belonging to them are kicked out of groups immediately. Just for being part of those guilds.

The hilarious thing? I have alts in all of them. I routinely get invited to dps, heal and tank in the main guilds, but when I'm playing my alts in the others, players kick me instantly. However, I still belong to those guilds because I have some friends there and they lead conquest on smaller planets for achievements.

Like any tool, guilds being able preemptively ban a person's entire legacy can be very useful and very dangerous. What happens when only a small group of officers in 2 or 3 of the main guilds can decide who gets to participate in endgame for the entire server? Do you really understand the effect of a large guild preemptively banning 1,000 LEGACIES? Not characters, legacies. How large a population do you think the game currently has on each server, lol?

And before you say, trolls deserve it, remember that guild officers can also be trolls and very immature at times. No vote is required to eliminate people. It's possible for a single person to get rid of an entire legacy's participation at a whim. How long before it becomes a tool of harassment and threats?

Disclaimer - I am a very nice person. I was raised to treat others with respect. I do not troll people. I currently have not been removed or banned from any guild. However, I do stick up for my friends if someone is calling them names or obviously trolling them. That has landed me on the wrong side of guild law in the past (because of one person on each occasion) so I know what's at stake here.
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merovejec's Avatar


merovejec
02.13.2020 , 12:27 AM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by aerockyul View Post
It's his guild, he has that freedom as much as the troll has the freedom to continue alienating everyone around them. Conversely why does it harm you if you're not a troll that a guild is banning other people for whatever reason? If that offends you why would you want to be in that guild? If you're not a troll then the ban wouldn't harm you. I don't see why adding an integer to the ban limit code would so adversely affect someone to so strongly fight against it (again, especially if you had nothing to hide)
He has the freedom to do as he likes, but he should not keep on demanding tools to do as he likes. I do not want to be in that guild as there is no need. Some time ago there were far less guilds and players in the game and stuff was hard to do, only in big guilds. That changed now, there is no need to be in SMW as there are many other big guilds out there.

As for the coding, I am not a studied IT guy, but I am the generation which experience the birth of the computer for private people and know a bit more than the kids here. I also have basic in C++ programing etc. You need to distinguish various changes to the game. There are cosmetic changes that do not bother the game as much and then there are indexing changes that deal with information gathering which are more demanding. Its not easy to explain, but I can tell you that increasing limits like these do take a toll on the game. So if the GM wants more of such limits broken he is basically ruining the game for the rest just cause of his selfishness and inability to keep trolls out of his guild.
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DeannaVoyager's Avatar


DeannaVoyager
02.13.2020 , 12:54 AM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by sharkfishman View Post
Like any tool, guilds being able preemptively ban a person's entire legacy can be very useful and very dangerous. What happens when only a small group of officers in 2 or 3 of the main guilds can decide who gets to participate in endgame for the entire server? Do you really understand the effect of a large guild preemptively banning 1,000 LEGACIES? Not characters, legacies. How large a population do you think the game currently has on each server, lol?

And before you say, trolls deserve it, remember that guild officers can also be trolls and very immature at times. No vote is required to eliminate people. It's possible for a single person to get rid of an entire legacy's participation at a whim. How long before it becomes a tool of harassment and threats?
Those two paragraphs nail it.

Someone told me, they have been banned from a guild they had never had been in. He found this out by asking for a guild invite. I didn't believe it, as I didn't know it is possible to ban random people preemptively. His sense of humor is something that could be interpreted as trolling, especially if someone is looking for reasons to get upset. He is really a nice and funny guy when you get to know him and he is not out there to hurt anyone, it's a role he is playing.

Anyhow, I inherited a guild in a past, so I decided to test it out myself. Pre-emptive banning is one issue. A bigger issue is that it will show in the guild member management log, and reveals the person's legacy name to everyone in the guild. Not only the officers and guild leaders, but everyone. I would call that a huge violation of privacy, and great tool for stalking and harassing someone.

Regarding that, BW should either remove the information from member log completely, or at least prevent guild leaders from banning people who are not even in the guild. That way, whoever wants to keep their privacy, can keep it by not joining a guild.

In the meanwhile, when you encounter bigotry and whatnot in general chat, do what normal people do: report it to BW. It's their business to deal with it. They are the "police" of the game.
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merovejec's Avatar


merovejec
02.13.2020 , 01:52 AM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by sharkfishman View Post
using an elite chat channel that most players don't even know exist
This has been indeed the practise for a long time. The advantage of such channels was that people simply didnt even know that there is such an option in the game. On the other hand, once the people got to know the channel there are no admin rights to remove people from it or so.

The issue is as you mentioned, like for example you have such a channel with friends and one starts being a d*** and leaves. Then you join a guild and he is officer there and you get banned.... so yeah kinda sucks to have such a tool.

Quote: Originally Posted by sharkfishman View Post
Like any tool, guilds being able preemptively ban a person's entire legacy can be very useful and very dangerous. What happens when only a small group of officers in 2 or 3 of the main guilds can decide who gets to participate in endgame for the entire server? Do you really understand the effect of a large guild preemptively banning 1,000 LEGACIES? Not characters, legacies. How large a population do you think the game currently has on each server, lol?
This is exactly what I wrote before. The game population is not THAT big, its mostly the same people that stick around and the new people come and go. ATM the population is fine, there are many big guilds and its all going well I would say. There is really no need for such extreme meassures like unlimited lists for guild bans, the guilds should rather focus on their recruitment and guild management. I have been playing solo for like the past 5 years, I have my own guilds on rep and imp side, always reach the conquest objective of 500k etc. Besides I have my toons in big guilds on different servers and its all without issues.
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Icestar's Avatar


Icestar
02.13.2020 , 03:50 AM | #30
I am a member of this guild.

I think it is very good if they could increase the guild ban limit to atleast 500 or perhaps even 1000.

There are so many players that express themselves in a very bad way or act in a very bad way, I do not want to have anything to do with these players. I log on with general chat disabled, even vicinity from time to time. It is my choice to exclude those that write in a very bad way and I am happy to not encounter them in the guild.