I honestly haven't watched much of the new series but with my SW fandom renewed by playing this game I was thinking about it. However, i heard a lot of bad things about it compared to the hand drawn animated series they did between Ep II and III.

 

From the sounds of it, it sounds like it may ruin everything I liked about the old Clone Wars, and I personally loved that series - I thought it had enough to bridge the gap between Ep II and III but didn't feel drawn out, I have this horrible feeling that that's what the new series does.

 

Spo what do you think is better? The new CG version or the old hand drawn shorts?

CGI is much better. And the old one was more of a massive brawl than anything.

CGI is much better. And the old one was more of a massive brawl than anything.

 

^This

 

The CGI has actual story with action, plus you get to know the characters a lot more and get a feel for them.

 

In the micro-series it was pretty much all battles, and very very lose story(if any was there to begin with) and it really made certain characters way OP(Grevious most noticeably...and Durge, but at the very least Durge could be beaten temporarily. So he wasn't as OP as Grevious, Mace Windu was very OP too.)

Edited January 25, 2012 by Wolfninjajedi

^This

 

The CGI has actual story with action, plus you get to know the characters a lot more and get a feel for them.

 

In the micro-series it was pretty much all battles, and very very lose story(if any was there to begin with) and it really made certain characters way OP(Grevious most noticeably...and Durge, but at the very least he could be beaten temporarily.)

 

Mace Windu beating every single droid on a planet without using a lightsaber...

 

Right...

Mace Windu beating every single droid on a planet without using a lightsaber...

 

Right...

 

Ya that too, almost forgot bout that scene.

You guys hit the nail on the head on the animated series.

 

But I will go ahead and post my thoghts::

 

All good points; figured I would repost this here as it more or less states why I prefer the CGI series to the animated one.

 

Please note, my original post was in response to the question whether we view the old (Animated Series) or new (CGI Series) as Star Wars cannon and to explain our response. Not exactlly on topic but one that I feel would work in this thread.

 

 

-------OLD POST------

 

Reason for my choice is because I can not stand OP characters in ANY form.

 

Now it is true that the CGI version does have its far share of op moments; as mentioned above with Ashoka vs Grevious; but all that pales (imo) to the scenes from the animated version.

 

The one part were mace windu pretty much destroys an entire droid army single handedly; with his BARE HANDS no less; then takes out the droid super weapon in three seconds, followed by him force leaping to a nearby mountain top to get a drink is the most enraging.

 

That scene played out more like a Jedi Mountain Dew commercial than a cannonicly (sp?) accurate take on the Star Wars lore.

 

Also that scene with Grevious taking on the four (or was it five) jedi was a little over the top as well; espcecially when the cartoon show more or less tells the audience that General Grevious > the Star Wars version of an attack helicopter.

 

The animated version of the Clone Wars to me, sits on the same leve as the Force Unleashed video games. Pretty much a fanboy-ish take on jedi / sith and force powers in general.

 

I mean if mace windu was really that powerful then why even bother with the clone army? Just send him to each seperatist planet, and watch as he would proceed to faceroll the entire enemy army by himself.

 

More or less the animated clone wars series and the force unleashed games has given me a deep seated hatred of force users in general.

 

The whole: "Well, I have the Force so I automatically win at everything." veiwpoint is frustrating to me, and (IMO) does not match the way Jedi / Sith were portrayed in the OT.

 

/end nerd rage filled rant

 

----END OLD POST------

 

One other thing I thought I would bring up concerning the GCI Clone Wars, however is the fact that the droids are mentally handicapped. I know I am stated as being against anything OP in a work of fiction but the opposite remains true as well.

 

Numerous times on the show Ashoka, Padme, Jar Jar, or some other character has confused droids about to capture them. Examples include but are not limited to pretending to be a bad guy with appropriate clearence, cause the droid to argue with each other and then slip by unnoticed, and sometimes even scaring the robots.

 

Granted this is a children's show and the droids operated the same way in Episode 3, but the fact that characters could bluff thier way past robots specifically designed and programed for the sole purpose of war is stretching it a little bit.

 

The most common explanation for this behavior is that the mass production of the droids have resulted in lower intelligence overall. While I can see this side to the subject; wouldn't the droids be more likely to shoot people on sight then ask questions, considering their function as BATTLE Droids.

 

The fact that Lucas gave the droids a "personality" in the form of having an actual personality detracts from the whole Clone Wars series as a whole (IMO). Not only because it makes the bad guys look like bumbling idiots, but it also doesn't speak very well of the Republic if it took them soooo long to win the war in the first place.

 

Maybe it's just my preference to robots like: The Terminator, or Warhammer 40K's Necrons that sets me against the light hearted CIS, but still the fact that they (droids) are called BATTLE DROIDS seems to detract from the seperatists over all.

 

Overall the CGI clone wars is much prefered vs the PT and the animated series, and; like stated above; I love the humanizing done to the clones, and Anikan's and Obi Wan's friendship. Now if only they could work on the droid army in general.

 

One other thing I thought I would bring up concerning the GCI Clone Wars, however is the fact that the droids are mentally handicapped. I know I am stated as being against anything OP in a work of fiction but the opposite remains true as well.

 

.

 

The Droids, Binks and, The C-3po and R2-D2 episodes are the "Reminder were a kids show" episodes. Because their meant for 8 year olds.

 

And I hate when people birng up "slicing people's heads off is kid friendly?"

 

Well, you'll have to realize sooner or later. Modern Day kids are into that stuff. You got 10 and 11 year olds playing Assassins' Creed and playing Call of Duty or Halo.

BrandonSM, I realize that the C3-PO, Jar Jar, ect. episodes are all about the kiddie appeal, I get that.

 

What I don't understand however is why do the "kiddie" droids have to be in almost every scene were there is battle droids.

 

I mean the Cade Bane arch is awesome and the episodes about Rex and the other clones are well done, and "kiddie-free" for the most part, I just don't see why the driods have to be regulated to comdic relfief, especially since they are supposed to be the main villians during ground and space "large scale" battles.

 

Imagine the Cade Bane episodes were you always saw a slapstick bounty hunter following him (Bane) around, tripping over his own feet and saying really stupid things.

 

Or a clone trooper who couldn't shoot strait, and would put his helmet on backwards.

 

That is the annoyance I feel whenever the droids show up. Robots are supposed to be cool.

 

The whole concept that you are fighting an enemy that does not feel fear, pain, pity, or remorse; an enemy that will not fall back, or retreat, or surrender is imdimidating; and is why the more serious takes on science fiction robots are so engaging.

 

I mean I can not watch an episode that tries to humanize the clones; to show the audience that they are people too, with feelings and fears, and not just mindless killers, when the droids are not like that either.

 

Kinda makes it hard to have a foil to the clones in that reguard.

I think you're blowing it way out of proportion. Yes, it's a kid's show. That it comes across as silly and nonsensical to you is evidence that you're capable of critical thought, but, you're better off using your energy elsewhere. To wit, you're completely forgetting that there are nearly as many scenes of the silly, goofy battle droids shooting and killing people. Mostly clones, but you get the point I hope.

 

I like the show for what it portrays, honestly. It provides good, if juvenile, entertainment for anyone who watches it and is probably meant to be watched as a family unit. Else there wouldn't be the scenes with politics and intrigue that so closely mirror that of a society that's been fighting a war for as long as the target audience has been alive. It provokes thought, makes kids ask questions and draw parallels.

 

As to the main characters being 'OP', please. Most of the characters have to survive long enough for Order 66. Even if so many of their clones don't.

 

Again, it's a kid's show. You're overthinking things and making yourself come across as a purist nerd. Don't be that guy.

Mace Windu beating every single droid on a planet without using a lightsaber...

 

Right...

 

The old one helped fill the gap before ep III Was released, so we new reason grievous wheezed so much was his chest plate was caved in in battle.

@ PartVI

 

Yes I will conceed to your counter point about my overanalyzing the droids in the show. And to the fact that I am a nerd (maybe not a purist nerd but a nerd non the less).

 

I admit that I am kinda partial to robots in general (my favorite fictional characters are robots. ie Legion from Mass Effect 2, the Terminator, Warhammer 40K's Necrons, ect.)

 

Its just annoying that the robots / droids in star wars are regulated to comedy relief (HK-47 and IG-88 notwithsanding).

 

But on your point about character OP ness I would have to disagree on.

 

IMO if a character is seen taking on an army of droids and not even breaking a sweat, then it kinda detracts from said character's death during Order 66.

 

We as an audience are looking at the character and thinking to ourselves, "Wait, didn't this Jedi Master pretty much single handedly destroy the doid army on Planet What'sIt'sName? Why then is he dying in five seconds to a handful of clone troopers?"

 

Not only that but I find it very hard to empathize with and fear for a character if they have been repeatedly shown to escape and triumph over insurmountable odds. In the back of my mind I am thinking that no matter what happens or who this character fights I know they are going to win.

 

Sure we might have know that Luke and the Rebels were going to win in the end, but the fact that Luke was not facerolling the entire Imperial Fleet with his Force Powers; instead having to struggle and sacrifce things in his life; enabled us as the audience to empthize with and root for his character.

 

I realize this is a kids show, and I realize that the CGI Clone Wars is no were near the OP-ness of the animated show (Any scene with Mace Windu) or the Force Unleashed, but having character's succeed with little to no effort on their part kinda instills a false sense of achievement into younger viewers minds wouldn't you say?

I have not seen the new clonewars series... if it ever comes to netflix streaming i may give it a watch.

 

I loved the original animated one, however, not so much because of the story elements (as people have said they are few and far between in those old shorts), but because of animation itself. For those who don't know the original Clone Wars animated shorts was directed by Genndy Tartakovsky, the director or several great old animated shows including, Dexter's Lab, The Powerpuff Girls, and Samurai Jack. Tartakovsky as a director is mainly known for his visual style, and his action sequences. I belive when they had the original Clone Wars Cartoon series in mind, what they wanted was the action sequences; story was kind of an after thought as the true story was to be told in the movies. These 10-15 min shorts were really just to hold people over/get people excited about the upcoming films. So really if you are going to enjoy the original Clone Wars you need to enjoy it for what it is, a visual feast. If you want to watch it for it's story telling and character development you will be rather disappointed.

 

Personally I studied animation in college and Teach art now, so I enjoy the original Clone Wars more as an art form for the quality traditional animation sequences than I do as a story telling device.

 

The new Clone Wars series is obviously more focused on the story telling, which makes the series very different from the first, plus each episode is a full thirty minutes where as the first series was just 5-15 min shorts. Someone earlier said the windu thing was kinda like a Jedi Mt. Dew commercial more than a real story, and in alot of ways that is true, the purpose of the original clone wars was to sell the new movies to people, the whole thing was just a big advertising campaign with fan service jedi butt kicking. IF you take it for what it is and enjoy the quality animation that is Tartakovsky I think you will enjoy the original series alot more.

 

As for the "Characters are OP" in the original Clone Wars, watch an episode of Samurai Jack or the Powerpuff Girls and you will see that is really just a Tartakovsky thing.

@ Numberjohnnyfive

 

I can see your point about the animation style of the old series (I loved Dexter's Lab btw) my main gripe with the show is when people try to view it as a good narrative when, as you said it is not.

 

Still for me personally, even viewing the animated series as just mindless action, I can not like characters that are that over the top.

 

Now if you are making a comedy, such as Dexter's Lab or Power Puff Girls then I could see the characters doing things like that, not in a semi-serious take on action sequences.

@ Numberjohnnyfive

 

I can see your point about the animation style of the old series (I loved Dexter's Lab btw) my main gripe with the show is when people try to view it as a good narrative when, as you said it is not.

 

Still for me personally, even viewing the animated series as just mindless action, I can not like characters that are that over the top.

 

Now if you are making a comedy, such as Dexter's Lab or Power Puff Girls then I could see the characters doing things like that, not in a semi-serious take on action sequences.

 

I can understand that, it's all about suspension of Disbelief and how much you are really willing to suspend. Take Samurai Jack for instance. It had the same over the top action seqences you see in Clone Wars, and the series was semi-serious, but did have alot of comedy and it wasn't afraid to poke fun at it self. Tartakovsky's style harkens alot back to those old over the top action japanese films where when you cut someones head off fountains of blood sprays out. (tartakovsky is probably a big taratino fan as well) That's just the kind of thing he animates, and really in most cases you either like that style or you don't.

 

I can understand why you wouldnt enjoy it as much in a Star Wars setting, but personally I still thought it was fun for what it was, but I like those over the top japanese films like Ricky O or taratino's Kill Bill.

 

It's all a matter of preference. Story wise the old Clone Wars was crap, but visually i feel it was awesome (kinda like the Force unleashed games... the story was kinda wierd, but aside from the repetativeness and a couple of bugs it was hella fun to grab a star destroyer with the force, which is something I would never expect to happen in a movie or book.)

I like more that GCI version simply because I don't care much for that draw animation series drawng style.

 

But by the looks of it this GCI is also turning to crap because:

 

 

But I am interested of what becomes of Anakin's padawan. I mean how she dies, her death would be a perfect chance to make Anakin even closer to dark side. But then again it would be awesome to see the series end with a scene where Vader kills Ahsoka in Jedi Temple.

I like both the microseries and the CGI series quite a bit. The CGI series started off kind of rough (particularly with that movie that turned godawful after the Christophsis scenes), but it found its footing and has turned into an enjoyable series. Both series made Anakin into a much more mature individual than he was depicted in the movies, and the CGI series in particular has done a pretty good job so far at showing his gradual descent into the dark side.

Definitely, I vote for the old one.

Yeah, some of the first episodes were a bit silly, for me especially a "swoop joust" between droids and clones.

But in general to me it had more action + better story with less talking. Sure, it had not the technic drawing possibilities, but Tartakovsky could handle the dramatics of battle much better.

In the new series, a lot of episodes have a lame story, some are ripoffs of famous movies like Godzilla.

The new Clone Wars cartoon takes the Prequel era characters and present them in a way very similar to the Original Trilogy.

 

The old Clone Wars cartoon had some very fun action sequences, but it's format limited it's dramatic potential.

 

That's my two creds on the matter.

**** the CGI wooden puppet ********...its likea trademark stupid George Lucas cliche....

 

 

 

Old was much better in my opinion.

IMO if a character is seen taking on an army of droids and not even breaking a sweat, then it kinda detracts from said character's death during Order 66.

 

We as an audience are looking at the character and thinking to ourselves, "Wait, didn't this Jedi Master pretty much single handedly destroy the doid army on Planet What'sIt'sName? Why then is he dying in five seconds to a handful of clone troopers?"

 

Not going to touch on the scene in question, as it was pretty ridiculous, BUT Mace Windu didn't die during Order 66. He died to a tag team of Palpatine and Anakin, canonically two of the most powerful force users in the Star Wars universe.

Granted Mace did not die to Order 66 but I was refering to the op-ness of the Jedi in general rather then one particular character.

 

I know this is a kids show but still, making the Jedi out to be unequivable bada**es in the Clone Wars series stands in stark contrast to how quickly the jedi fell in episode 3.

 

Personally I prefer the force users to be a little more "down to earth" in terms of power, being slightly above the rest of the creatures in the galaxy rather then:

 

"Well I have the force and I automatically win at everything"

 

perspective that we have seen in the past (Animated Clone Wars).

Granted Mace did not die to Order 66 but I was refering to the op-ness of the Jedi in general rather then one particular character.

 

I know this is a kids show but still, making the Jedi out to be unequivable bada**es in the Clone Wars series stands in stark contrast to how quickly the jedi fell in episode 3.

 

Personally I prefer the force users to be a little more "down to earth" in terms of power, being slightly above the rest of the creatures in the galaxy rather then:

 

"Well I have the force and I automatically win at everything"

 

perspective that we have seen in the past (Animated Clone Wars).

 

They died to battle droids and normal soldiers as well during the cartoon. . .? Like, that's a thing that happened. The only ones who did anything as over the top as Windu were, well, Windu and, arguably, Anakin.

 

Not all jedi are equally skilled nor gifted in either combat or the force.

 

Edit: And Yoda was turned on during Order 66 as well and was able to escape. There were a few others that are mentioned in other sources of varying levels of canon, and either way the Empire performed more jedi hunts and purges after Order 66. That just killed all but the best, and destroyed any chance the jedi might have of forming a unified front against Palpatine/Sidious.

Edited January 26, 2012 by KryloKillian

I will admit, after just recently looking back at Tartakovsky's animation, that yes the story wasn't its main selling point. In all honesty however, it still had a better story than those in the CGI version. I think everyone is misunderstanding good story telling with Lucas ability to represent realism and depth in the Clone Wars.

 

If you don't want to read the whole thing here is my feeling as a whole with a parts unexplained that I will get to later.

 

Strengths of CGI version: Realism, morals, and nice look at third party perspectives. Troopers personality (thank goodness not like the droids).

Weaknesses: is there character development? Scattered story with poorly depicted relationship between the third parties conflicts and the clone war itself. Useless dialogue at times.

 

Strength of 2D version: Simple easy to follow story, easily identifiable and important moments of character regression or development. Evolution of the war (the technology and the factions involved specifically). EPIC fights and duels.

Weaknesses: Too many or too long of a fight at times, questionable event Qui-gon. A little too ridiculous at times with lights sabers, the force and space fights that lead us to a fall with episode III, a big one with Grievous fans!!

 

When watching The Clone Wars (clarifying as CGI) episodes I do feel that each iteration has a strong story. The whole story of The Clone Wars (CGI) is scattered, stagnant and devalued by unnecessary episodes. I base my view off the rare signs of character (or group*) evolution and development within the series. In my mind only 20 percent of the episodes show having links to a previous episode and have impacted a character's or faction's (such as the Jedi or Sith) development as the war continues. The rest of the episodes are trying to cram in too many perspectives without really giving them the respect they deserve, especially the Sith or Seperatists!!!

 

Clone Wars (Tartakovsky's animation) was a simple and fluid story with two interests at heart.

 

Primary focus: How does the war affect Anakin Skywalker's character. Simple! Tartakovsky wasn't aiming for anything huge he wanted to depict how Anakin develops into Darth Vader (remember this was before Episode III and I did fell that all that development was wasted). In the CGI it tries to answer the same question but too much time is spent on Obi-wan, Ashoka or others who serve as constant annoyances instead of influential characters with stories that are not fully fleshed out.

 

I know I am going to hear this sooner or later so let me get the episodes in the 2D animation that strayed from the story; specifically the battles for Mon Calamari, Dantooine and Illum. On Dantoonie and Illum there is no story outside of the conflict itself, and really that is fine because the difference between these battles and those in the 3D (such as a rogue planet-state expanding their interstellar power or the betrayal by a select number of clones to the separatists) is that imagination is allowed to fill in the holes. The 3D episodes are filled too the brim with dialogue by independent characters trying to explain every moral choice they make. In the end the characters feel like programmed machines not capable of being influenced by those around them or later on a story set in stone that was nothing more than a minor road bump and nothing else. Fisto is on Mon Calamari to assist the Calamari, done. Using Mon Calamari you could envision battles happening on other planets with different reasons; IT WASN'T FORCEFULLY FEED TO YOU. On Dantooine, when seeing farms and fields, I believed that the Separatists were playing dirty and striking at the one weakness clones don't share with droids, food supply.

 

Before continuing, I must demonize those who believe that The Clone Wars is better because there is fewer points of interactions and drama between Padme and Anakin. Hate to say this, but exploitable love shared between Padme and Anakin is what turns him into Vader, so avoiding it damages the story. At least the 2D animation used a cave painting to describe how Anakin's fear and drive would consume everything he held dear.

 

In terms of character development it was readily identifiable in Anakin when he was being drawn closer to the dark side, but outside of Anakin the Jedi order was changing too. We see how Anakin becomes a knight in an unorthodox manner, and (when members of the council were actually talking, yes I nerded out there because they were no longer place holders OMG they talked to one another) how the trials were being forgone in the case of Anakin and possibly others in favor of experience in the war.

 

Again like I stated above, Padme and Obi-wan (or really the lack of at key times) have influenced Anakin greatly.

 

I feel that The Clone Wars was trying to cover too many themes, perspectives and interesting side stories without becoming a mess.

 

Clone Wars was simple and stuck too its simple story with only a few overly hyping fan service battles.

The Old One, like I said before, had no story and was a massive brawl.

 

 

The new one, goes into more detail on other characters besides Obi and Anakin. Shows their skills and weaknesses, you realize the relationship Obi had with Anakin and why it was such a big thing for their showdown. It makes the Prequels allot better.

I will admit, after just recently looking back at Tartakovsky's animation, that yes the story wasn't its main selling point. ...

 

Clone Wars was simple and stuck too its simple story with only a few overly hyping fan service battles.

 

To summarize it: it was made better in general. For example, I found, in the new series, the Ventress/Savage Opress storyline was not a bad idea. And it started off well, with even using some EU-Canon stuff for Ventress in a good way, and explaining how Opress became Dookus new henchmen. But then they totally lost the grip. In just some 20 minutes or that, Oppress has Sith training, becomes super ******, has random assasination scenes, gets detected by Jedi, holds his ground, suddenly turns against Dooku, fights off his master and Ventress. As if that was enough, when is a clearly doomed somehow, he escapes and is written off for a looong time.

And to me, it was way better done in comparison when they showed how Ventress became Dookus assasin in the old series.

 

Also, I think, they somehow do not get the main storyline really together in Clone wars. Every season has a main plot, thats cool. But then... In season 2, they made hommages of famous movies, notably of Godzilla and Seven Samurai/Magnificent seven. All of a sudden, and even that were somehow not-bad episodes, it surely could add nothing to the main plot. Then, in season 3, they came up with the ideas of prequels/sequels of former episodes, like anyone did care and really thought: O cool, thats what happened before the random Ryloth battle. What were they thinking, that this would make it as deep as "Lost" or something like that? Then they have those episodes with OT-Cameos. "Hey, how it is, if we just bring in Greedo for 10 seconds?" "Awesome...."

Last blitz idea: "What do we do now?" "Don't know... wait, don't we have also that clone wars comic line? Lets take one of those and make it CGI!" The TV episodes were even better than the crappy drawn original, but, come on, these comics were planned as add-ons, and do they really have to show a story whose outcome you can know since about 2 years or so?

Sometimes, the team to me seems to be much too fanboyish with a tendency just to make whole episodes if something comes in mind that they dig at the moment.

The really interesting stuff, which they put in special arcs or the season finales, then is too rushed and too much story is packed in 2 episodes.

With this long running time already, I doubt that they will never be able to bring all the hastily started off sidestories together. Remember, for example, that two main separatists, Wat Tambor and Poggle the Lesser are still in republic jail? I doubt, that they will ever bring this subjects up ever again.

But enough ranting, I still watch it and season 4 had a better start than the former ones, but I really don't expect it to become a good series anymore.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Intarabus