[Now since the 4pc set bonus is also terrible, the original operatives have always used the T1 raid PVE enforcer set bonus, as 15% extra chance to crit on backstab is simply amazing, and leaps and bounds more useful than anything else. To make this viable for PVP, we use BM armorings in the shells (as pre 1.2 shells carry the set bonus, and not the armoring), and the afore-mentioned mods and enhancements

Thanks for the information. Would someone help explain this to me.I know it makes sense to most of you but I am really confused and trying to understand. I mostly PVP and have not done much PVE at all. When you say, "to make this viable we use the BM armorings in the shells",do you mean you take out the armoring from the Battle Master armor and put it into the PVE raid set?

Also, would the Columni armor work as the PVE set since it does have the exrta 15% with 2 pieces?

What stat do you look at to see the extra 15% is working?

Sorry, i'm just a learning noob.

Thanks for the information. Would someone help explain this to me.I know it makes sense to most of you but I am really confused and trying to understand. I mostly PVP and have not done much PVE at all. When you say, "to make this viable we use the BM armorings in the shells",do you mean you take out the armoring from the Battle Master armor and put it into the PVE raid set?

Also, would the Columni armor work as the PVE set since it does have the exrta 15% with 2 pieces?

What stat do you look at to see the extra 15% is working?

Sorry, i'm just a learning noob.

Yes, you pull out BM armorings and put them in the PvE gear. If you put in WH armorings, it won't work, since WH set bonuses are tied to the armorings, so it will override them (Someone correct me if I'm wrong. I haven't done PvE, and don't plan to, so I don't have the items myself.).

If you hover your cursor over the armor, when you are wearing it, it should show if you are getting the bonus.

Yes, you pull out BM armorings and put them in the PvE gear. If you put in WH armorings, it won't work, since WH set bonuses are tied to the armorings, so it will override them (Someone correct me if I'm wrong. I haven't done PvE, and don't plan to, so I don't have the items myself.).

 

If you hover your cursor over the armor, when you are wearing it, it should show if you are getting the bonus.

Yes, that's right. You won't see a change in your crit stat on your character sheet though since it only effects Backstab.

Yes, you pull out BM armorings and put them in the PvE gear. If you put in WH armorings, it won't work, since WH set bonuses are tied to the armorings, so it will override them (Someone correct me if I'm wrong. I haven't done PvE, and don't plan to, so I don't have the items myself.).

THat is actually partially incorrect. BM gear along with Tionese, Columi, and Rakata gear all carry the set bonuses on the shell. WH and BH gear carries the armoring mod. So, taking myself as an example, I wear 3 pieces of WH (plus all of the ancillary WH pieces) and 2 piece Columi gear (gloves and helm). In the Columi pieces, I have the BM armoring mod and WH pieces for the normal mod and enhancement. This lets me keep my stat bonuses near WH for those 2 pieces while maintaining the set bonus from the Columi armor.

So, in summary, Set Bonuses are as follows:

Pre-1.2 gear on the shell

Post 1.2 gear on the armoring mod

This is important to point out because as new gear is released, if you want to maintain the PvP and PvE set bonus, you'll end up losing stats as you go on. It isn't game breaking now but it could be later on down the line.

Excellent post, excellent info and I really enjoyed your videos. I'm a level 49/49 Operative, and even though I loathe PVE as an Op, I LOVE PVP. Really good discussions as well, I enjoy this thread immensely, reminds of the website elitistjerks.com for WoW, no offense intended, but on that site knowledgeable players would theory-craft and have extremely in-depth discussions like this. Good stuff.

So, as a fresh 50 - I guess the first thing to do would be to get the Recruit Gear? Any particular set? I know there are several.

You should be able to buy a WH piece or 3 BM pieces when you hit 50 if you save up your commendations .. Which items to buy really depends on your spec, but personally I prefer the Field Tech bonus and the 2x PVE bonus for Conc spec.

For recruit gear, I'd recommend picking pieces with max endurance (if there's an option - I picked up a lot of BM gear before recruit was introduced, so don't know the recruit gear very well) .. in any recruit gear you're not going to do much damage, but the endurance will help you live a bit longer which is important while you're still uber-squishy and learning the ropes in 50-pvp.

There's an excellent thread somewhere about the recommended WH gear progression path. Search for it - it will save you a ton of commendations (I had already bought a few of the wrong BM items when it was posted and it took me ages to get back on track).

You should be able to buy a WH piece or 3 BM pieces when you hit 50 if you save up your commendations .. Which items to buy really depends on your spec, but personally I prefer the Field Tech bonus and the 2x PVE bonus for Conc spec.

 

For recruit gear, I'd recommend picking pieces with max endurance (if there's an option - I picked up a lot of BM gear before recruit was introduced, so don't know the recruit gear very well) .. in any recruit gear you're not going to do much damage, but the endurance will help you live a bit longer which is important while you're still uber-squishy and learning the ropes in 50-pvp.

 

There's an excellent thread somewhere about the recommended WH gear progression path. Search for it - it will save you a ton of commendations (I had already bought a few of the wrong BM items when it was posted and it took me ages to get back on track).

Thank you very much.

Ok, this is sort of long winded, and typed on the fly, so bear with me here..

 

I am going to assume for the moment, that you lack power, this is a mistake as power boosts your overall base line damage more than cunning. While it isn't a tremendous amount more, it is noticeable.

 

The vanilla war hero gear is obviously terrible, so to resolve the issue, of too much accuracy, and too little power we look at two mods.

 

Enhancements - War Hero Field Tech Boots

Mods - War Hero Field Medics Leggings

 

(ensure that you maintain 105% special attack accuracy)

 

Now since the 4pc set bonus is also terrible, the original operatives have always used the T1 raid PVE enforcer set bonus, as 15% extra chance to crit on backstab is simply amazing, and leaps and bounds more useful than anything else. To make this viable for PVP, we use BM armorings in the shells (as pre 1.2 shells carry the set bonus, and not the armoring), and the afore-mentioned mods and enhancements.

 

To balance crit out, we look at a target of roughly 36%, if we add in our set bonus, that puts us at 51% crit chance on backstab, we run all 22 skill augments to help our crit, and give us more room for power on the mods. If we are still under our target for crit, we sub in some mods from War Hero Enforcer's Boots instead of the power mods to reach our target.

 

Now that our damage is in line, we want to look at survivability, so we use 2 war-hero-trappers-mk-1-enhancer

 

and 1 war-hero-trappers-mk-1-enhancer

 

Whether you opt to use a power crystal or an expertise crystal is up to you, I use the latter, and that puts me at 1320 expertise, and about 800 power.

 

You will be at about 80% surge, but its unavoidable, in a perfect world you would look to shave 5% of that off.

 

--

 

I hope that helps, happy hunting!

Nice Post, what should your power be at? +200? do you use all skill augments as in CUNNING? or do you mix and match?

First off, I'd like to take a moment to thank you for your gracious attitude. Too often players of high caliber ability that video their play are pompous and holier than thou. I have a sincere appreciation for the time you spend to explain the mechanics in which you build your operative to the level it is statistically, so that the small community here can benefit from the knowledge you have gleaned through experience and your own research.

(ensure that you maintain 105% special attack accuracy)

I'd like to ask and comment something in regards to this statement you make about accuracy. Through my observations, I have concluded that with the 1% accuracy buff from companions, bringing our base accuracy up to 101% special attacks, we only actually need 102% accuracy for special cases. The understanding comes from this:

Tank classes that take talents into 'increases your defense by 1%/2%' not only increase their defense score, but also their resistances. It's actually the only way, if you observe, for players to increase their actual *resistance*. If you understand accuracy, accuracy will reduce the targets defense *and* resistance when it passes 100%.

Against players (ie: shadows, vanguards, juggernauts) who have two points into a talent that ultimately gives 2% defense (and thereby resistance) you would need to have a base of 102% accuracy to reduce their resistance from 2% chance to resist tech abilities down to 0% chance to resist tech abilities.

I hope that I am able to communicate this idea clearly. 105% special attacks accuracy would only be necessary if there were frequent enough cases of targets having 5% resistances. Technically speaking, a player who has the 1% accuracy bonus from companions, only needs to obtain 1% accuracy through items. Since we have an over abundance of surge, I find that trading one surge enhancement slot for one accuracy enhancement slot is ticket to success here.

The only time I get misses with tech attacks is when players use special, short duration abilities that directly lower my accuracy far below 102%. I believe, Vyle, and I think this is where my real question comes in, that you perhaps take 105% tech accuracy to compare to the baseline 5% defense score that all players get? Is that where it comes? If that is the case, consider that tech accuracy goes against player resistance, which can be at most 2%, through tanking talents (or our own talent in concealment (shifty eyes is what it's called for scoundrels).

TLDR: I think you only need 102% accuracy for special attacks, please verify, sir.

The other part I wanted to ask about was Implants. I have not actually been able to itemize properly due to rerolling, but once you start obtaining so many low endurance enhancements and mods, is it necessary to give up the battlemaster implants? Is giving up the 15 cunning worth the 5 crit, 3 expertise, and 25 endurance? Where I'm standing (in partially optimized WH gear) It doesn't seem like it, but I still have 19k HP.

Let me slip one last question in, since I'd like your thoughts: I chose 2 points in chem resistant overlays (4% reduced incoming damage) over 2% increased critical rate. How do you feel about that spec? I'm not a fan of the reduced cooldown on the stun, as I don't use it on cooldown, so prefer my points elsewhere, either 5/31/5 or 7/31/3. What are your thoughts on the pros/cons?

I'd really appreciate it if you took a good look at this. Your input would be valued, and it seems our community is rather small these days. Thank you for your time.

-VR 91 Scoundrel, VR 63 Operative

PS: I'm considering dropping the 4th second off of evasion and grabbing up another hit on orbital strike. Thoughts?

I'd like to ask and comment something in regards to this statement you make about accuracy. Through my observations, I have concluded that with the 1% accuracy buff from companions, bringing our base accuracy up to 101% special attacks, we only actually need 102% accuracy for special cases. The understanding comes from this:

 

Tank classes that take talents into 'increases your defense by 1%/2%' not only increase their defense score, but also their resistances. It's actually the only way, if you observe, for players to increase their actual *resistance*. If you understand accuracy, accuracy will reduce the targets defense *and* resistance when it passes 100%.

The problem with your logic here is that every class has a base 5% defense chance, so if you don't want attacks getting resisted by other DPS classes, then you need 105% Tech accuracy. Obviously you will still have some attacks miss against tank classes with high defense chances, as well as against targets that are in cover.

Well the question is, players have a base defense chance of 5%. Defense is measured against weapon damage attacks. Players have a base resistance of 0%. Resistance is measured against tech/force damage (special attack accuracy).

The logic here is that my attacks hit 100% of the time against 0% resistance, exceptions being 2% resistance from tank talents, bringing a -zero miss- accuracy to 102%. Is this true or false? Are there other instances where players have higher than 2% resistance such that we would need to have higher than 100% special attack accuracy in order to reduce it to/below zero so that we do not miss?

This question applies to all force/tech users, particularly sages that don't use any accuracy at all.

Well the question is, players have a base defense chance of 5%. Defense is measured against weapon damage attacks. Players have a base resistance of 0%. Resistance is measured against tech/force damage (special attack accuracy).

 

The logic here is that my attacks hit 100% of the time against 0% resistance, exceptions being 2% resistance from tank talents, bringing a -zero miss- accuracy to 102%. Is this true or false? Are there other instances where players have higher than 2% resistance such that we would need to have higher than 100% special attack accuracy in order to reduce it to/below zero so that we do not miss?

 

This question applies to all force/tech users, particularly sages that don't use any accuracy at all.

105% will make your white attacks always hit (RS, Overload Shot and Carbine Burst iirc). Personally I also run with around 103%, since I don't think it's such a big deal if 1 tick of RS misses from time to time, but if someone could provide a WZ log (pref 1x@100% Accuracy, 1x@102%, and 1x@105%) for me to analyse that would be really useful.

It's so pointless just to show highlights from a concealment op. Show a full match. Especially show a full rated match. Yes the class does decent burst damage when you blow 90s cooldowns and get the necessary crits but concealment is utterly dependent on crits for damage and has no way to proc them. I've got a whole series of mostly huttball vids that show full-length matches. I agree that the class is fun and challenging to play, but you really present an inaccurate impression of it when you only show highlights.

http://www.youtube.com/user/UshanevVrookLamar?feature=watch

Honestly I used to think concealment was decently balanced if played well. Then a rolled a pyrotech.

It's so pointless just to show highlights from a concealment op. Show a full match. Especially show a full rated match. Yes the class does decent burst damage when you blow 90s cooldowns and get the necessary crits but concealment is utterly dependent on crits for damage and has no way to proc them. I've got a whole series of mostly huttball vids that show full-length matches. I agree that the class is fun and challenging to play, but you really present an inaccurate impression of it when you only show highlights.

 

http://www.youtube.com/user/UshanevVrookLamar?feature=watch

 

Honestly I used to think concealment was decently balanced if played well. Then a rolled a pyrotech.

Did you watch the video? Almost half of it was a single Civil War match, and an excellent example of how to be effective at a contested node.

105% will make your white attacks always hit (RS, Overload Shot and Carbine Burst iirc). Personally I also run with around 103%, since I don't think it's such a big deal if 1 tick of RS misses from time to time, but if someone could provide a WZ log (pref 1x@100% Accuracy, 1x@102%, and 1x@105%) for me to analyse that would be really useful.

The user you quoted speaks about Tech Accuracy. The accuracy of our tech skills. It is countered not by Ranged and Melee Defence but by Resistance (The stats you can see when you hover the mouse over the Defence).

Base Tech Accuracy is 100% and base Recistance is 0. But talented can reach 2%. So normally we need to reach 102% Tech Accuracy to have no ressists on skills.

But OP suggests:

(ensure that you maintain 105% special attack accuracy)

Thats why Scrubin asks (and I would like to know actually) if Resistance can reach over 2%.

The user you quoted speaks about Tech Accuracy. The accuracy of our tech skills. It is countered not by Ranged and Melee Defence but by Resistance (The stats you can see when you hover the mouse over the Defence).

Base Tech Accuracy is 100% and base Recistance is 0. But talented can reach 2%. So normally we need to reach 102% Tech Accuracy to have no ressists on skills.

 

But OP suggests:

 

 

Thats why Scrubin asks (and I would like to know actually) if Resistance can reach over 2%.

Hmm ... I remember reading somewhere else that we should maintain 105% accuracy for PVP (probably SithWarrior), but that it only effected Rifle Shot - or maybe I was getting my PVE / PVP accuracy info's confused. Anyway - I agree with the post that more than 102 - 103% is a bit of a waste, but at the same time there's not much else to do with those stat points since getting more surge is pretty pointless above 400 - 450 anyway. Personally I have swapped out a couple Accuracy enhancements for Alacrity ones - I think I get something like 1.5% faster heal / OrbS casts

Did you watch the video? Almost half of it was a single Civil War match, and an excellent example of how to be effective at a contested node.

Did I sit through 10 minutes of yet another concealment gank montage to notice the longer clip at the end? Not on the first watch. Now that I've seen it, I don't dispute that OP is a competent concealment op but that doesn't mean that the class isn't currently underpowered. Again, full-length rated matches are the only way to see how concealment stacks up vs. good, geared players.

Hmm ... I remember reading somewhere else that we should maintain 105% accuracy for PVP (probably SithWarrior), but that it only effected Rifle Shot - or maybe I was getting my PVE / PVP accuracy info's confused. Anyway - I agree with the post that more than 102 - 103% is a bit of a waste, but at the same time there's not much else to do with those stat points since getting more surge is pretty pointless above 400 - 450 anyway. Personally I have swapped out a couple Accuracy enhancements for Alacrity ones - I think I get something like 1.5% faster heal / OrbS casts

It also effects overload shot, but i only use that in pvp against assassins in their force/tech immunity.

Ok, this is sort of long winded, and typed on the fly, so bear with me here..

 

I am going to assume for the moment, that you lack power, this is a mistake as power boosts your overall base line damage more than cunning. While it isn't a tremendous amount more, it is noticeable.

 

The vanilla war hero gear is obviously terrible, so to resolve the issue, of too much accuracy, and too little power we look at two mods.

 

Enhancements - War Hero Field Tech Boots

Mods - War Hero Field Medics Leggings

 

(ensure that you maintain 105% special attack accuracy)

 

Now since the 4pc set bonus is also terrible, the original operatives have always used the T1 raid PVE enforcer set bonus, as 15% extra chance to crit on backstab is simply amazing, and leaps and bounds more useful than anything else. To make this viable for PVP, we use BM armorings in the shells (as pre 1.2 shells carry the set bonus, and not the armoring), and the afore-mentioned mods and enhancements.

 

To balance crit out, we look at a target of roughly 36%, if we add in our set bonus, that puts us at 51% crit chance on backstab, we run all 22 skill augments to help our crit, and give us more room for power on the mods. If we are still under our target for crit, we sub in some mods from War Hero Enforcer's Boots instead of the power mods to reach our target.

 

Now that our damage is in line, we want to look at survivability, so we use 2 war-hero-trappers-mk-1-enhancer

 

and 1 war-hero-trappers-mk-1-enhancer

 

Whether you opt to use a power crystal or an expertise crystal is up to you, I use the latter, and that puts me at 1320 expertise, and about 800 power.

 

You will be at about 80% surge, but its unavoidable, in a perfect world you would look to shave 5% of that off.

 

--

 

I hope that helps, happy hunting!

Can you please link your Mr.Robot Armory? I would love to check out your gear and mods.

Did I sit through 10 minutes of yet another concealment gank montage to notice the longer clip at the end? Not on the first watch. Now that I've seen it, I don't dispute that OP is a competent concealment op but that doesn't mean that the class isn't currently underpowered. Again, full-length rated matches are the only way to see how concealment stacks up vs. good, geared players.

This post confirms my fears.

Created a Mr Robot profile Here.

Dropped accuracy down to 102.90% and after several parses I only average 3 more misses on white damage. My main concern is overload shot on tech immune shadows/assassins as well.

Created a Mr Robot profile Here.

 

Dropped accuracy down to 102.90% and after several parses I only average 3 more misses on white damage. My main concern is overload shot on tech immune shadows/assassins as well.

If they pop whatever they wanna call their version of Evasion, chances are good that they'll also pop Deflection. In that case, its best to just sit back and prepare to eat some damage because the energy blown isn't worth it. I prefer to just refresh Corrosive Dart. The DoT sticks but it simply won't register damage while their form is active. You lose 1 tick which isn't a big deal.