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EQN dead, Wildstar dying...swtor?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion > Off-Topic
EQN dead, Wildstar dying...swtor?

MadCuzBad's Avatar


MadCuzBad
03.11.2016 , 08:06 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Max_Killjoy View Post
You really are fixated on the group queue as the sole indicator of game success / life, aren't you?
For PVP in this game, you better believe I do. It is a make or break issue. Its the only reason servers die off and become ghost towns. Its a slippery slope that this particular game has had an impossible time beating.

If this game had server to server que pops, it would probly have at least 2 times of the servers it has not if not a lot more than that and probly 80% of the friends I had who no longe rplay this game anymore would still be playing.

That's my personal experience in this game and I have played this game since launch. This aint my first rodeo here.

spectreclees's Avatar


spectreclees
03.11.2016 , 08:06 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by jedip_enguin View Post
I was super excited when we saw the first Wildstar videos, and I followed the development fairly closely, but when I got into the Beta I realised that despite the obvious talent and effort that had been put into it it suffered one fatal flaw, It was BORING.

I took three attempts to make it through the opening levels before I actually twigged that I just wasn't having any fun, which was a pretty bitter realisation.

And the rest as they say, is history.
No matter what class I tried everything felt clunky and boring. The combat was off to me and I could never figure out why. It had dodging and sprinting which was interesting but it also added a ton of frustration to combat I felt, especially in PvP. Overall, the exploration aspect of the game was fantastic, jumping up mountains to overlook the entire zone was a blast. Sadly, this isn't enough to keep me hooked forever and thus I don't think the game will survive much longer.
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Zhedzaban's Avatar


Zhedzaban
03.11.2016 , 08:16 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by jedip_enguin View Post
I was super excited when we saw the first Wildstar videos, and I followed the development fairly closely, but when I got into the Beta I realised that despite the obvious talent and effort that had been put into it it suffered one fatal flaw, It was BORING.

I took three attempts to make it through the opening levels before I actually twigged that I just wasn't having any fun, which was a pretty bitter realisation.

And the rest as they say, is history.
Wildstar was interesting in that there was a huge disconnect between the gaming journalists and the players. When it released it won all sorts of awards and was given rave reviews with high scores from so called game experts and reviewers.

And yet the game tanked, hard. I think you are right, the game lacks a soul and a lot of elder gamers find all the flashing lights and in your face gameplay annoying. With no IP to back it up, not even a f2p conversion was enough to save it.
RIP APAC players, RIP West Coast Players, RIP anyone not living on the East Coast

The United Forces merger disaster, 2017

Vhaegrant's Avatar


Vhaegrant
03.11.2016 , 08:35 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by MadCuzBad View Post
In a game designed like this "Theme Park" you have to actually play to support it. This is not like SWG that just merely subscribing supports it because SWG was a sandbox of endless open world events that went on for ever. This game relies on group ques to happen and when they don't, people leave.

SWG has instanced PVP but also had a HUGE open world PVP that went on ever single day and night in a place called restuss. Players didn't need que pops to appear to PVP. They could go to restuss day and night and fight in small or large 100 vs 100 fights. It didn't matter.

This is a good game, but its design requires people to log in and que. When the que pops stop, people leave and leave in groves. 188 US servers that are no longer in existence will prove what I am saying is correct.

Truth be told, SWTOR is on life support at this point. Server to server ques should have been built into this game before launch. To late to fix and my understanding is that they built this game on a sub standard engine that can not even support it even if they wanted to.

Trouble times ahead, and I am not talking about the distant future, I am talking very shortly for this game.
Quote: Originally Posted by MadCuzBad View Post
For PVP in this game, you better believe I do. It is a make or break issue. Its the only reason servers die off and become ghost towns. Its a slippery slope that this particular game has had an impossible time beating.

If this game had server to server que pops, it would probly have at least 2 times of the servers it has not if not a lot more than that and probly 80% of the friends I had who no longe rplay this game anymore would still be playing.

That's my personal experience in this game and I have played this game since launch. This aint my first rodeo here.
Doom, doom, doom, doom!
Never understood why PvP players seem to need so much handed to them to actually PvP. Go to a shared world and drum up some open world PvP events. Go use the few free for all areas like Outlaws Den on Tatooine or Ilum's Westen plain.

The trouble is a large section of Bioware supporters and Star Wars gamers are not PvP players and turned up for the story and little else.
Of course it's never that easy to define what a particular player is going to stick around to play, but given the direction of convenience features and the focus on story content recently I doubt the hardcore MMO fans are the prime market (and given the IP they never should have been).

Pietrastor's Avatar


Pietrastor
03.11.2016 , 08:36 PM | #15
Ironically, SWTOR has a better chance at surviving with its "un-MMO" heavy focus on solo story than most other titles in the genre. Destiny and Division are 'winning' right now primarly because they present themselves as NOT-MMOs lol. The term has become toxic both among gamers and developers fixated on MMO definition.

yaxmutal's Avatar


yaxmutal
03.11.2016 , 08:42 PM | #16
Wildstar looked like it was for 8 year olds so I never tried it.
EQ has way too much history, I don't want to jump in at this stage into anything like it, FF or Wow.

SWTOR is an awesome game and unlike just about every other MMO it has a huge successful entertainment business behind it putting out movies, TV shows, books, other games etc to keep promoting it for free. I think it has a good future but it would be better with a few VERY basic changes like cross server ques and a new Op.

As for games like the Division the idea of a modern FPS MMO is a great one and I think it has great potential.

Andryah's Avatar


Andryah
03.11.2016 , 08:50 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by MadCuzBad View Post
For PVP in this game, you better believe I do. It is a make or break issue. Its the only reason servers die off and become ghost towns. Its a slippery slope that this particular game has had an impossible time beating.

If this game had server to server que pops, it would probly have at least 2 times of the servers it has not if not a lot more than that and probly 80% of the friends I had who no longe rplay this game anymore would still be playing.

That's my personal experience in this game and I have played this game since launch. This aint my first rodeo here.
This is NOT a PvP centered game, and never has been. Sure it has some PvP features in it, but they are not the core of the game for most players AND certainly not for the studio. PvPers need to pursue MMOs where PvP is more central to the core of the game design... Period. then again.. there are very few MMOs where PvP is core to the game. Maaaaayyyybeee Camelot Unchained could fill the hunger, but with Jacobs running that train.... it will go sideways shortly after launch and PvPers will hound the dev team and reject it.

Best PvP game on the market still today, IMO, is Eve Online.
When you find yourself surrounded by hostile Clowns... always go for the "Juggler" first.

Andryah's Avatar


Andryah
03.11.2016 , 08:54 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Vhaegrant View Post
Doom, doom, doom, doom!
Never understood why PvP players seem to need so much handed to them to actually PvP. Go to a shared world and drum up some open world PvP events. Go use the few free for all areas like Outlaws Den on Tatooine or Ilum's Westen plain.

The trouble is a large section of Bioware supporters and Star Wars gamers are not PvP players and turned up for the story and little else.
Of course it's never that easy to define what a particular player is going to stick around to play, but given the direction of convenience features and the focus on story content recently I doubt the hardcore MMO fans are the prime market (and given the IP they never should have been).
Yeah... in general, the PvP segment of the MMO population now days are among the most needy and demanding. They no longer seem to be able to self-organize and go out and do PvP for PvP sake. Most are only in it for the rewards these days. And yes PvPers, this is a broad generalization and I am sure there are still some mature and well adjusted PvPers playing MMOs... but they seem to do so quietly and without the need to spam jello all over the forum floors at every perceived sleight by a studio. The vocal discontented give this facet of the genre a bad name IMO, which is too bad because I have known some really great PvP players and guilds in MMOs over the years.

I miss the old days when PvP was about realm and guild pride and putting it over on the other realms (a la DAoC). That was PvP worth doing.. and there were no rewards other then realm and guild pride of accomplishment.
When you find yourself surrounded by hostile Clowns... always go for the "Juggler" first.

Vhaegrant's Avatar


Vhaegrant
03.11.2016 , 09:01 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Andryah View Post
This is NOT a PvP centered game, and never has been. Sure it has some PvP features in it, but they are not the core of the game for most players. PvPers need to pursue MMOs where PvP is more central to the core of the game design... Period. then again.. there are very few MMOs where PvP is core to the game. Maaaaayyyybeee Camelot Unchained could fill the hunger, but with Jacobs running that train.... it will go sideways shortly after launch and PvPers will hound the dev team and reject it.

Best PvP game on the market still today, IMO, is Eve Online.
PvP was a huge factor in SWTORs development cycle.
The limited weapon choice is a remnant of the Devs wanting Advanced Class to be visually represented (as was the original intent to have very specific armour sets before the roll out of adaptive armour sets.).
A lot of the balancing of abilities still seems to focus on the PvP pass rather than the PvE mechanics.

A big part of the trouble with MMOs is they feel the need to force one set of mechanics on every game style. The best solution to this quandary in my opinion would be to break away from that mould and have separate mechanics for the different elements of the game and develop a more modular structure.
Share the core art assets but develop separate engines and games that link back into a central social hub, branch out some mini-games to gaming on tablets/mobiles so that there is always a point of contact with the player base.
I'm not sure the player base that supports Bioware and the larger Star Wars fanbase ever wanted a hardcore MMO with the traditional endgame grind. The direction to more accessible content that doesn't require a huge sacrifice of time appeals to the wider market.
If only they could strike a balance by introducing some specific role based challenges (hopefully this is part of why Eternal Championship was rolled back).

Andryah's Avatar


Andryah
03.11.2016 , 09:03 PM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Pietrastor View Post
Ironically, SWTOR has a better chance at surviving with its "un-MMO" heavy focus on solo story than most other titles in the genre. Destiny and Division are 'winning' right now primarly because they present themselves as NOT-MMOs lol. The term has become toxic both among gamers and developers fixated on MMO definition.
Yeah.. player psychology has shifted a lot over the years, and with the proliferation of pseudo-free games and console games, and those who crave them and consume them, are a large factor in the shift I think.
When you find yourself surrounded by hostile Clowns... always go for the "Juggler" first.