You think that your plan is better or you feel that you is more experienced than he is. But he is the Ops this time. Will you follow his plan if you don't agree with it? Or you will argue or even violate his orders?

 

To illustrate my question let's imagine you are a stealther and say something like "everyone attack right door and I'll ninja cap left". But ops says "no, we ALL should focus attack right". What will you do? Join everyone, like ops said or will try your plan anyway?

 

Personally I'll follow ops orders even if I think that it's stupid.

Edited July 20, 2012 by Darth_Malish

I don't follow any orders from someone less intelligent or experienced than myself.

 

And that is especially if they spout nonsense like it's gospel.

Edited July 20, 2012 by Darth_Acherus

No it's a random WZ and most people using that chat only want to be important. I don't disobey just because but people wont listen anyway, and as a healer I go where Im needed.

If evidence leads to their orders, then I'll follow them. If they just say "Everyone zerg right." And I notice no defenders on left, being a hybrid shadow with insta force lift, I'll go left rq, find their stealth defender, sap him, start to cap, he breaks the sap and then gets instant force lifted, I plant the bomb, and we move on.

 

Generally, if it doesn't work on the first try, I'll head back to the zerg and continue the fight. It rarely doesn't work though.

ops is just based off some arbitrary system of who has most VP at the time, no guarantee the leader is smarter, or more experienced.

 

I'll go ahead and follow my own strat in pugs, usually consisting of finding and murdering enemy healers.

I usually will try to follow the ops leaders requests at the beginning of the wz. After the initial assault I'll watch for help calls or just go where I'm needed.

I don't see why not, sometimes its whoever speaks first and the leader doesn't say anything. I'd guess a higher valor person would have seen strategies so would have better experience. (excepting the illum guys of course). Edited July 20, 2012 by Ybini

I usually will try to follow the ops leaders requests at the beginning of the wz. After the initial assault I'll watch for help calls or just go where I'm needed.

 

same thing for me. if no one throws out an initial plan at the beginning, i'll throw something out there. if no one goes for it, I'll just either respond to help calls or go where the majority of my team is and heal.

Even if you think your plan is better, sometimes it's better to have everyone on the same page of a meh strategy than have everyone trying to execute their own favorite awesome strategy.

 

In the OP example, all going right makes sense if they commit 2 defenders to the off door. Trying to 1v2 will only gimp your team. However, if you can 1v1 or 2v2, you can hope they call for help and the other team over commits.

 

I guess my point is that your opening strategy should be flexible depending on what the other team does.

 

I will use ops announcements (done with "/ra" for some reason, almost like someone thought they were raids and not operations...) if we ninja a node. Sometimes people don't notice, and need to be told to stop fighting and break off to defend (mostly Alderaan thanks to the audio cue in Novare). Or I'll use it to remind people to slow the enemy team instead of killing them or running to the bridges/forcefields in Voidstar.

 

Occasionally I will use it if we are down 2 nodes to 1 and I think the timing is right for a coordinated attack on a particular node. I figure it at least gives is a chance to group our forces. I'll say "all go left" or "spawners south" but honestly I don't think anyone ever listens.

You think that your plan is better or you feel that you is more experienced than he is. But he is the Ops this time. Will you follow his plan if you don't agree with it? Or you will argue or even violate his orders?

 

To illustrate my question let's imagine you are a stealther and say something like "everyone attack right door and I'll ninja cap left". But ops says "no, we ALL should focus attack right". What will you do? Join everyone, like ops said or will try your plan anyway?

 

Personally I'll follow ops orders even if I think that it's stupid.

 

I'm with ya. If I do disagree, I'd speak up and explain why I feel my way is better, but I feel it's better to have the whole team on the same page, even with a questionable strategy, than to have people doing whatever THEY feel is best. Working with a common goal, as a team, is better than working as individuals any day.

 

I don't follow any orders from someone less intelligent or experienced than myself.

So you pretty much do as your told huh?

I'm with ya. If I do disagree, I'd speak up and explain why I feel my way is better, but I feel it's better to have the whole team on the same page, even with a questionable strategy, than to have people doing whatever THEY feel is best. Working with a common goal, as a team, is better than working as individuals any day.

 

So you pretty much do as your told huh?

 

Interesting insult, but unwarranted.

I usually guard objectives only ones that should deviate from the "general" game plan are stealthers, if they are good then in my opinion they should do their thing and play by intuition.

Well I do and I don't and sometimes I make suggestions on what should be done. I think that someone should take some sort of leader spot whether they are the ops leader or not. When people do not communicate in pugs it is hard to win. Something like hey me and this stealther will hit east or if I am guarding a node and a dps is with me ill ask him if he will help defend the other node and I will call it out and delay if my node gets attacked.

 

Sometimes they listen and sometimes they do not but that's just pug PvP.

I Often try to issue some plan to folks in hopes of cohesion and teamwork, but as proven in this thread alone; most people could care less because they know best.

 

It's funny too, because 9/10 of the matches where people end up just negating any attempts to unify them, we end up losing, despite their clearly superior know-how and skillz.

 

And it's not just when I try it, but when anyone does. It's like people think because they have a couple 50's or played since beta (like that's a huge achievement) that their superior abilities will allow for a 2v1 when they head out to take a node or whatever. (The point here, is that most everyone still playing IS from beta and ALSO has several 50's themselves)

 

I dunno, I guess having been a military leader, I know how to both extend and receive orders. I think any leader expects adjustments to occur without the necessity to voice them. There's just some things that should appear obvious. So I guess for those people that are demanding people regiment themselves to your plan to failure, well, sorry for you. For those like myself who try and be polite and coerce and fail, don't give up. Just try with the next group to rally folks together.

 

I guess it's obvious at this point that I attempt to follow an initial spoken plan. Only one time have I managed to see a group carry out a plan in voidstar which required a constant zerg on right side and succeed because of persistence. We managed to focus down all the opposition after a few minutes and cap the door. That act alone won us the game, since we were able to defend on round 2.

Depends on who is the leader if I'm with all level 50s than I usually follow orders cause they have experience. But if some low level noob is the leader I'm not following and orders they give me.

Interesting insult, but unwarranted.

 

It was most certainly not an insult, it was an assumption. Just like you assume and judge other peoples intelligence and experience in the 60 seconds before a warzone begins.

 

If someone wants to 'lead' an operation, I'll follow them. If nobody speaks up, I'll assume most people have done the WZ enough to know the objectives and know the basics (fight on node, call incoming). If I see something wrong, like a call for help somewhere, and I see everyone leave, I'll speak up or stay myself. I don't pretend to judge anyone's intelligence off a wz, and even the most skilled player will make mistakes.

Well I do and I don't and sometimes I make suggestions on what should be done. I think that someone should take some sort of leader spot whether they are the ops leader or not. When people do not communicate in pugs it is hard to win. Something like hey me and this stealther will hit east or if I am guarding a node and a dps is with me ill ask him if he will help defend the other node and I will call it out and delay if my node gets attacked.

 

Sometimes they listen and sometimes they do not but that's just pug PvP.

 

good post. Want to add it's helpful to let your team know you're a healer (especially if you're a non-commando healer, since they don't have stances), or say you will pop the first transcendence, or that you will charge past the node to aoe mez and please don't break it, etc. Of course this all applies the first few seconds of the match, and without someone filling the leader role, it's very hard for pugs to coordinate after that.

 

Edit: when someone yells "1 west," a simple "omw" (on my way) can go a long way to preventing an over-commit.

Edited July 20, 2012 by LarryRow

If someone tries to organize the team, I will usually go along with it even if I disagree, because even a bad plan with people working together is more likely to work than if everyone's just doing their own thing. However, in my experience, leadership rarely plays much of a role in the outcome of pug warzones. People either know how to play the warzones or they don't. If they do, no instructions are needed. If they don't, all the orders in the world are unlikely to help.

Depends on who is the leader if I'm with all level 50s than I usually follow orders cause they have experience. But if some low level noob is the leader I'm not following and orders they give me.

 

Not sure if serious.

Depends.. at the start tellling what side should zerg and what side should stealth sure...Hey we got 2 caps lets all run to the third one... nope!

PUGs (especially lowbies):

In Alderaan, I'll usually pay attention if someone calls a play as I'm mostly tanking or healing. That means either screening/guarding or running with the zergmass. In Novare, I find that the plays called aren't relevant after the first minute or so. In voidstar, I'll go with the zerg at the start and adapt.

 

If I'm playing a DPS stealther, however, I'll usually ignore orders or amend them and delay an opposition's cap/ninja a door/etc.

 

In huttball, things change so quickly that anyone calling plays is just silly.

 

4-made premades where someone -else- is ops lead:

One of us is usually calling focus targets, we're all communicating, and we're not going to listen to someone who doesn't have as much battlefield information as us. Among the four of us, there are usually two dominant personalities that work together and two others.

 

rWZs:

Someone's always calling focus, taunt rotation, etc. etc. I listen, I obey, sometimes we pull out a win. Sometimes. l

 

If someone calls an idiotic play (this happens more and more frequently in Alderaan) or a pay that's not going wot work without a lot of communication not available in a PUG (also happens a lot in Alderaan), I'll usually suggest a simpler plan. If that gets dismissed, I'll volunteer for guard duty rather than going with stupid.

 

I've never rage quit a WZ and bad leadership is so low on the things that tick me off that I can't imagine it ever causing me to consider it.

It was most certainly not an insult, it was an assumption. Just like you assume and judge other peoples intelligence and experience in the 60 seconds before a warzone begins.

 

If someone wants to 'lead' an operation, I'll follow them. If nobody speaks up, I'll assume most people have done the WZ enough to know the objectives and know the basics (fight on node, call incoming). If I see something wrong, like a call for help somewhere, and I see everyone leave, I'll speak up or stay myself. I don't pretend to judge anyone's intelligence off a wz, and even the most skilled player will make mistakes.

 

You have a very optimistic view of players on your team. Experience has taught me to assume the worst possible scenario.

 

Oh and seeing the same people say the same crap over and over kinda leads me to think the way I do.

 

I do not judge people until they say or do something stupid.

I just wish I could opt out of Ops Leader. It's no fun being the captain of a clownshoes operation. Better to let someone else try to lead the random PUG.

You have a very optimistic view of players on your team. Experience has taught me to assume the worst possible scenario.

 

Oh and seeing the same people say the same crap over and over kinda leads me to think the way I do.

 

I do not judge people until they say or do something stupid.

 

Possibly. I just view it as a game and I'm here to have fun. I win some, I lose some. I try not to judge people I don't know, but like you, once they've opened their mouth, then we can make more accurate assumptions

So long as the ops leader isn't suggesting something wildly stupid, I'll go with the plan. Far better to have a team that is executing the same plan than everyone doing what is right in his or her own eyes.