So, I remember on the PTS forums, people were saying that crit had become a worthless stat because of the harsh DR curves, even after they buffed it a little. That is to say, it was always worth it to take power instead. Is this still the case?

Nobody knows?

crit just makes the crit hit more often so no its not worthless to a certain point

surge rating makes the crit strike more powerful as well as power ect

No! People are commenting on how stats have been changed but so far nobody's mention Critical.

EA has fired all the devs capable of actual thought. The ones they have now only work off the "metrics" which provide a very incomplete view of the game. The current devs do not even seem to play the game because if they did they would of seen the problem they have caused with crit.

 

The DR on crit is so quick and so steep its pretty much useless now. Hell an 8 year old with a basic understanding of algebra can tell their equations are way off.

 

 

EA needs to stop trying to go the cheapest route on everything. If they make a good game they will make money, its why Bioware was such a good company. Bioware had the mentality of doing it right and doing it well made people like their games and they made money. EA is the opposite, they put out shuvelware hoping people will pay for it.

 

 

If EA actually had people who played their games they could see the difference. They need to stop using only the flawed "metrics" and actually play the game.

Nobody knows?

 

It still seems pretty bad. At level 53 I'm down to 20.66% from 31.69% (both unbuffed and with the exact same gear). And I haven't reached the end yet...

 

While leveling my crafters I'm preparing to stack power.

 

 

crit just makes the crit hit more often so no its not worthless to a certain point

surge rating makes the crit strike more powerful as well as power ect

 

We all know that. But you need a certain % crit chance for the number of crits to be high enough to have a significant impact on your overall DPS. With a drastically reduced effectiveness of crit rating, the same amount of stats point invested in Power may give a higher damage over time.

Edited April 13, 2013 by KyaniteD

It still seems pretty bad. At level 53 I'm down to 20.66% from 31.69% (both unbuffed and with the exact same gear). And I haven't reached the end yet...

 

In other words.. wearing the same gear as you level, you are losing about 3-4% per level.

 

Sounds about right actually.

 

Why would you think that stats would remain static as you out level your gear???????

Edited April 13, 2013 by Andryah

EA has fired all the devs capable of actual thought. The ones they have now only work off the "metrics" which provide a very incomplete view of the game. The current devs do not even seem to play the game because if they did they would of seen the problem they have caused with crit.

 

The DR on crit is so quick and so steep its pretty much useless now. Hell an 8 year old with a basic understanding of algebra can tell their equations are way off.

 

 

EA needs to stop trying to go the cheapest route on everything. If they make a good game they will make money, its why Bioware was such a good company. Bioware had the mentality of doing it right and doing it well made people like their games and they made money. EA is the opposite, they put out shuvelware hoping people will pay for it.

 

 

If EA actually had people who played their games they could see the difference. They need to stop using only the flawed "metrics" and actually play the game.

 

With respect, this is the largest piece of mistruth, exaggeration, and outright lying I have seen in the forum all week.

 

You need to purchase some clues IMO.

So, I remember on the PTS forums, people were saying that crit had become a worthless stat because of the harsh DR curves, even after they buffed it a little. That is to say, it was always worth it to take power instead. Is this still the case?

 

Not worthless at all. That said, as the game has matured... a balanced approach to applying stats to your gear becomes the sensible route to go. In other words.. over-stacking may have worked at launch... but not 8 major patches later.

 

Note: like most MMOs... stats are tuned over time, most often as part of an expac of a major patch. Very often one of the first things that is done is to put diminishing returns on stats. Now, one could argue that an MMO dev team should be able to address diminishing returns balance before they go live with an MMO.. but the reality is until you see your playerbase apply massive cleverness to distort your game design.. that is a hard thing to do well.

EA has fired all the devs capable of actual thought. The ones they have now only work off the "metrics" which provide a very incomplete view of the game. The current devs do not even seem to play the game because if they did they would of seen the problem they have caused with crit.

 

The DR on crit is so quick and so steep its pretty much useless now. Hell an 8 year old with a basic understanding of algebra can tell their equations are way off.

 

 

....

I wasn't aware they taught algebra in the 3rd grade now-a-days. Color me surprised.

In other words.. wearing the same gear as you level, you are losing about 3-4% per level.

 

Sounds about right actually.

 

Why would you think that stats would remain static as you out level your gear???????

 

The problem discussed here is that the loss cannot be compensated (let alone turned into an increase) even with better gear.

 

On PTS, getting over to 25% and even close to 30% (unbuffed) required a heavy investment in critical rating at the expense of other needed stats like accuracy, surge, alacrity and power. In the end, the DPS increase per stat point was so low that it was inefficient to stack for critical rating.

Edited April 13, 2013 by KyaniteD

Not worthless at all. That said, as the game has matured... a balanced approach to applying stats to your gear becomes the sensible route to go. In other words.. over-stacking may have worked at launch... but not 8 major patches later.

 

Their intent was to make stats more balanced. However, they failed to do so, at least on PTS. The DR curve was so harsh that even after they "buffed" it you got so little from having any crit stat that you were better off having power instead. Part of the problem was that you easily surpassed the soft cap naturally just from whatever main stat you had at 55.

 

Obviously crit would still be useful even with this harsh DR if you got it for free. But you don't get it for free - you get it by sacrificing power. Crit wouldn't be worthless if not for the opportunity cost - the cost of taking crit instead of power. Power has no diminishing returns, so you got so much more from having power instead of crit that crit effectively became a worthless stat. If crit didn't come at the expense of power, then it would still be useful even with the harsh DR curve. Unfortunately, every point of crit you have is one less point of power you have.

 

My question is if anything has changed since they "buffed" crit on PTS. Their "buff" made almost no difference; they might as well not have done anything at all. My opinion is that at that point, after they buffed it once, crit was still worthless. My question is if they changed it again since then - is it still worthless?

Edited April 13, 2013 by LetoAtreidesII

The problem discussed here is that the loss cannot be compensated, let alone turned into an increase with better gear.

 

What I think you meant to say is "I cannot distort crit stat progression like I used to". Which is true. They want you to blend stats and gradually boost all capabilities.. not just distort your crit. Deal with it IMO.... it affects everyone the same (including the mobs).. it's not like it only affects you exclusively/personally.

 

it is very clear that they wanted to tone down stat distortions and that you don't like it. I get that.

Edited April 13, 2013 by Andryah

Their intent was to make stats more balanced. However, they failed to do so, at least on PTS.

 

1) I don't know that they failed. Just because people do not like the way they changed it =/= failure. It's pretty normal for MMO players to get bent whenever stat calcs and DRs change in and MMO. Especially min/maxers. Your use of the term "failed" is subjective and opinion... which you are entitled to.. but it does not make it sweeping fact.

 

2) It is clear that crit was improperly implemented early in the game as crit components carried inflated prices in the economy... which is almost always a clear indicator that something is borked to begin with.

 

3) it's not worthless.... it's of less value then it used to be.. AND it's previous value was inflated vs many other stats.

Current gear has it's crit diminished.

 

New gear will give more crit.

 

As you level 50-55, your stats go down each level for crit/surge.

Current gear has it's crit diminished.

 

New gear will give more crit.

 

As you level 50-55, your stats go down each level for crit/surge.

 

That's true, but that's not the point. The point is, would I be better off if I replaced all my crit with power? The answer in most cases would seem to be yes.

Edited April 13, 2013 by LetoAtreidesII

That's true, but that's not the point. The point is, would I be better off if I replaced all my crit with power? The answer in most cases would seem to be yes.

 

Depends on what your goal is really.

 

What is your goal?

 

Sure.. crit works differently now.. so it won't give you the results it used to. But what is your goal??

 

It appears that they have tuned stat forumlas now to NOT give inordinate weight to any one secondary stat. It's different, but I'm fine with it. It's just something to adjust to. But if you go with zero crit.. I bet you will regret it.

Edited April 13, 2013 by Andryah

Well for me, my slinger has 35% crit, 2k cunning, surge rating 70. something percent, and 623 power all unbuffed in my blackhole campaign gear. Your base stat be it willpower, cunning, or aim will always get you the most bang for buck dps wise, from what I found you should strive to stack it to 2k and with allot farming and picking boosting up your other key stats. Should always strive for the min 30% crit my opinion. Edited April 13, 2013 by Havan

Depends on what your goal is really.

 

What is your goal.

 

Sure.. crit works differently now.. so it won't give you the results it used to. But what is your goal??

 

It appears that they have tuned stat forumlas now to not give inordinate weight to any one secondary stat. It's different, but I'm fine with it.

 

...

 

Did you seriously just ask that? What has been the goal of pretty much every dps class, ever? To maximize dps.

 

And with the scaling of Critical Rating seen on the PTS, adding one point of Critical Rating, not even accounting for the Diminishing Returns, adds less to your dps than adding one point of Power. Thus, it is better to stack all Power and completely ignore Crit, making Crit effectively worthless.

 

You spoke of "blending" stats, but that is exactly what is we did pre-2.0. We aimed for certain values of Accuracy, Critical, and Surge, and any leftover stat budget went to Power. Now, we don't "blend" stats anymore, we just completely ignore one and stack the other.

Crit, def, shield, accuracy, surge, absorb have quite frankly all been wrecked...

 

Even without doing the calculations it is fairly obvious that things got messed up.

...

 

Did you seriously just ask that? What has been the goal of pretty much every dps class, ever? To maximize dps.

 

Seriously??

 

Yeah.. I did.. because you can maximize burst dps.. or sustained dps... or go for consistency of dps... or gamle on hyper-bursts from luck with /randomize...or dps tuned for raid bosses. or dps tuned to fast kill specific PvP classes... or dps specifically to engage and delay ... etc. .... etc.

 

I do not subscribe to your simplistic two dimensional definition of "maximize dps". It's a myth to begin with unless you are in a simple set piece fps shooter in a shooting gallery.

Edited April 13, 2013 by Andryah

Anything over 20% crit is worthless.

if some ppl stop for a second and start reading the tooltips on their abilities, they will found out that some of the special attacks once talented have and increased crit chance

pls read before

Well for me, my slinger has 35% crit, 2k cunning, surge rating 70. something percent, and 623 power all unbuffed in my blackhole campaign gear. Your base stat be it willpower, cunning, or aim will always get you the most bang for buck dps wise, from what I found you should strive to stack it to 2k and with allot farming and picking boosting up your other key stats. Should always strive for the min 30% crit my opinion.

 

I'll bet that's at level 50. At level 50, I believe you'll still have a crit rating similar to what you had before 2.0. As you level up, however, you'll find your crit percentage dropping significantly since the character screen displays your crit versus mobs of the same level. It's at level 55 that the DR will be so harsh that it is no longer worth it in most (and probably all) cases to take any crit at all instead of power.

 

Depends on what your goal is really.

 

What is your goal?

 

Sure.. crit works differently now.. so it won't give you the results it used to. But what is your goal??

 

It appears that they have tuned stat forumlas now to NOT give inordinate weight to any one secondary stat. It's different, but I'm fine with it. It's just something to adjust to. But if you go with zero crit.. I bet you will regret it.

 

I'll give you that in most cases, one must be mindful of one's goals, because they are not always obvious nor universal nor shared even if they are assumed to be. However, in everyday casual/informal discussion, this is often ignored for the sake of convenience/expediency. That was the mindset I had in my original post and for most of this discussion.

 

But for the sake of clarity, let's state our goals. My goals are to maximize overall/sustained DPS, HPS, and/or burst. I believe that this is the same for most people here. Tanks clearly would not share these goals, but it is implied that this discussion is not about them nor is it about utility.

 

For these stated goals, it is my suspicion that it is currently ideal to run zero crit and all power, waiting only on hard numbers from a numbers person. The return from crit is so bad that you can have a reasonable amount of confidence in this suspicion. And no, you will most likely not regret it if you go with zero crit. You will regret it if you take any crit at all. I'd go so far as to suggest that you should probably kick any dpsers or healers from your raid who have any crit on their gear at all, at least if you're trying to optimize your raid composition.

 

The number crunchers on PTS already determined that it was always worth it to take power instead of crit from the standpoint of maximizing DPS, burst, or HPS. And yes, they accounted for the fact that certain classes/specs get certain procs/bonuses/effects from crits. What I didn't know, and still am a little unsure of, is whether anything changed between then and now.

Edited April 13, 2013 by LetoAtreidesII

I'll bet that's at level 50. At level 50, I believe you'll still have a crit rating similar to what you had before 2.0. As you level up, however, you'll find your crit percentage dropping significantly since the character screen displays your crit versus mobs of the same level. It's at level 55 that the DR will be so harsh that it is no longer worth it in most (and probably all) cases to take any crit at all instead of power.

 

 

 

I'll give you that in most cases, one must be mindful of one's goals, because they are not always obvious nor universal nor shared even if they are assumed to be. However, in everyday casual/informal discussion, this is often ignored for the sake of convenience/expediency. That was the mindset I had in my original post and for most of this discussion.

 

 

But for the sake of clarity, let's state our goals. My goals are to maximize overall/sustained DPS, HPS, and/or burst. I believe that this is the same for most people here. Tanks clearly would not share these goals, but it is implied that this discussion is not about them nor is it about utility.

 

For these stated goals, it is my suspicion that it is currently ideal to run zero crit and all power, waiting only on hard numbers from a numbers person. The return from crit is so bad that you can have a reasonable amount of confidence in this suspicion. And no, you will most likely not regret it if you go with zero crit. You will regret it if you take any crit at all. I'd go so far as to suggest that you should probably kick any dpsers or healers from your raid who have any crit on their gear at all, at least if you're trying to optimize your raid composition.

 

The number crunchers on PTS already determined that it was always worth it to take power instead of crit from the standpoint of maximizing DPS, burst, or HPS. And yes, they accounted for the fact that certain classes/specs get certain procs/bonuses/effects from crits. What I didn't know, and still am a little unsure of, is whether anything changed between then and now.

 

You are pretty much correct. The soft cap is 20% and the buff gets you 25. You can try for 5 more % but I doubt it is worth it. When I did the #'s on the PTS for my balance shadow: 20, 25, 30, and 35% (35% was pretty much full crit gear ) Note: %'s are without smug. buff, so add 5% if buffed to each %. I saw a decrease in dps like crazy. 2400 ish in the Arkanian with accuracy/surge/power. 25% crit lowered it not by much about 2300 or so. 30% though I went to 2k and 35% I went to 1800-1900. The class is gimped alittle from pre 2.0 dps wise, but those #'s with a lot of crit were hilarious to me. You pretty much needed full crit to scratch what crit used to be before 2.0 which brought my surge down to 60-61% and my power was measly. Also my accuracy was at 98. some %.

 

Get your crit to the soft cap, pretty much just like before 2.0 and be done with it. ^^