EDIT: I get that Jaina is very much the Jedi Knight who favors a lightsaber over flashy powers. But that hasn't stopped the likes of Mace Windu from bringing their strength in the Force to bear.

 

Sorry but I believe Jaina Solo to be superior to Mace Windu in the force, her Shatterpoint seemed much more effective than his was.

 

Also, she has MANY force abilities at her command, the issue is, all of them are tailored towards close combat, her force cloak is perfect for an ambush, she can see into the past and view flashpoints, she can read and change the minds of her combatants, she is an expert at stealth, probably the greatest sentinel/shadow type of Jedi ever and she also has shown a mastery of force speed.

 

When she defeated Yuuzhan Vong Warmaster Tsavong whilst having almost no use of her legs she was too fast for him to measure,

When she slew Supreme Overlord Shimrra's full group of slayer bodyguards single-handed, she was too fast for them.

Then later on when whilst severely injured she fought nearly twenty Sith of the Lost Tribe and killed all of them with ease because of her speed.

 

It has been noted on multiple occasions that she saved her own life many times with her healing trance, which she wielded mid-combat, effectively making her extremely difficult to kill.

 

She also exhibited such an intense natural affinity for force lightning that it was black, which frightened her mother into incorrectly believing it was her that was studying the Dark Side, not her twin.

 

She can also easily break the force grip of almost anyone, the only Dark Sider known to be able to use it against her was her twin, Caedus, someone who was able to fight Luke Skywalker effectively in combat.

 

She also exhibited the ability of Force Sever in small displays during the Lost Tribe crisis, using it on Sith Sabers to eliminate them from combat(though I doubt this was the permanent variation).

 

By the time of the Abeloth/Daala/Lost Tribe crisis, Luke claimed Jaina had largely trained herself whilst on the field, showing the same natural affinity for the force that Luke exhibited during his training as a Jedi and that she had effectively made herself into a Jedi Master, thus he bestowed upon her the rank of Jedi Master and called her the greatest champion of it's order.

 

Jaina uses her very impressive command of the force as a one-on-one combatant, she is an introvert force user, not an extrovert, thus being named the Sword of the Jedi, just because you focus on personal combat and use force abilities that are more directed on a singular person doesn't make you a lesser force user.

Sorry but I believe Jaina Solo to be superior to Mace Windu in the force, her Shatterpoint seemed much more effective than his was.

 

Anakin is the only reason Mace didn't end the Sith uprising.

 

Let the haters come at me

I do believe that is the information from Rayla that was have been looking for to make Jiana #8 as it shows exactly what powers she is using in her saber combat and to what degree (the degree being extreme.) and of course what matters in this list is not the power but the degree of which that power is taken. Edited June 24, 2013 by tunewalker

I do believe that is the information from Rayla that was have been looking for to make Jiana #8 as it shows exactly what powers she is using in her saber combat and to what degree (the degree being extreme.) and of course what matters in this list is not the power but the degree of which that power is taken.

Rayla certainly makes a good case for Jaina. Again I'm not an expert on this character and her Wookiee page is hardly helpful, I wanted people to make a case for Jaina so I could understand her abilities more.

 

Anyway, I think we can all agree that the candidates for #8 and the remaining places are in no particular order:

 

Jaina Solo

Mace Windu

Darth Plagueis

Kyp Durron

 

I'm struggling to work out whether Windu is stronger than Plagueis. In terms of Alter they are practically equally matched, both have shown equal ability in telekinesis and Force-powered strength. Both are highly proficient in Force speed and while Plagueis has an edge in Control through his ability to manipulate life, Windu has shown proficiency in the non-Altering powers with Shatterpoint.

 

If I had to choose I'd give it to Plagueis simply because his ability to manipulate life far outweighs anything Windu has achieved with Shatterpoint, and Plagueis discovered how to become a Force ghost suggesting at least equal proficiency in the Sense department.

I'm struggling to work out whether Windu is stronger than Plagueis. In terms of Alter they are practically equally matched, both have shown equal ability in telekinesis and Force-powered strength. Both are highly proficient in Force speed and while Plagueis has an edge in Control through his ability to manipulate life, Windu has shown proficiency in the non-Altering powers with Shatterpoint.

 

If I had to choose I'd give it to Plagueis simply because his ability to manipulate life far outweighs anything Windu has achieved with Shatterpoint, and Plagueis discovered how to become a Force ghost suggesting at least equal proficiency in the Sense department.

 

If it came down to measuring the two, Plagueis' midichlorian manipulation gives him the edge in 'who's more powerful.' I find them to be fairly equal, but midichlorian manipulation gives Plagueis that extra point to edge out Windu.

If it came down to measuring the two, Plagueis' midichlorian manipulation gives him the edge in 'who's more powerful.' I find them to be fairly equal, but midichlorian manipulation gives Plagueis that extra point to edge out Windu.

Hmmm, that and the fact he discovered how to become a Force ghost. I think Kyp Durron has to be placed above them though.

 

And I'd be willing to give Jaina #8 if everyone agrees.

Hmmm, that and the fact he discovered how to become a Force ghost. I think Kyp Durron has to be placed above them though.

 

And I'd be willing to give Jaina #8 if everyone agrees.

 

Well, I don't. I think she can make to the the list, at max, as #10, below Kyp Durron and Windu.

Hmmm, that and the fact he discovered how to become a Force ghost. I think Kyp Durron has to be placed above them though.

 

And I'd be willing to give Jaina #8 if everyone agrees.

 

Definitely Kyp is above Plagueis, and I'm fine with Jaina at #8.

Well, I don't. I think she can make to the the list, at max, as #10, below Kyp Durron and Windu.

She is on shaky ground. But if we break it down:

 

 

• Jaina has extensive Control abilities in healing, cloaking and speed which match that of Plagueis though surpass Windu's.
   
   
  
• Jaina has extensive Sense abilities in shatterpoint which at least match Windu's and surpass Plagueis'.
   
   
  
• Jaina's proficiency for Force lightining of a powerful kind at a young age is evidence of her power in Alter, which at least match that of Windu's and Plagueis'.
  

 

She has either matched or surpassed Windu and Plagueis so I'd say she is superior to both by a small amount. Though I can't be sure if she is strong enough in the Force to surpass Kyp Durron who's affinity with the Force has been described by Luke as 'frighteningly powerful'.

I question when and why it became OK for Jedi to start using Force Lighting...in the sense, that Jedi even used it to begin with. Unless its only instances where said Jedi was angry, that is fine and shouldn't be considered a normal power for them to use...but if its something that they just use...then no. Electric Judgement? Fine...but Force Lighting? No.

 

Separate the two and have only Judgement used by Jedi and Lighting by Sith/Dark Jedi. There isn't any excuse for Jedi to use Force Lighting all willy nilly, when they have Judgement to use unless they have moments of anger.

Edited June 24, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

She is on shaky ground. But if we break it down:

 

 

• Jaina has extensive Control abilities in healing, cloaking and speed which match that of Plagueis though surpass Windu's.
   
   
  
• Jaina has extensive Sense abilities in shatterpoint which at least match Windu's and surpass Plagueis'.
   
   
  
• Jaina's proficiency for Force lightining of a powerful kind at a young age is evidence of her power in Alter, which at least match that of Windu's and Plagueis'.
  

 

She has either matched or surpassed Windu and Plagueis so I'd say she is superior to both by a small amount. Though I can't be sure if she is strong enough in the Force to surpass Kyp Durron who's affinity with the Force has been described by Luke as 'frighteningly powerful'.

 

Ya like I have said I am not sure if the Apprentice surpassed her master or not. Kyp was her master for a short time but for what ever reason I am seriously leaning to the awnser of Yes. With the information Rayla gave us I am leaning that yes she did surpass her master but just barely both would be excellent Jedi Knights in all honesty in the raw power category I actually want to call them equals but do to her greater skill I want to say Jaina surpasses Kyp you can kind of look at their piloting for this one as both use the same force techniques for Piloting and Jaina is the better of the 2.

I question when and why it became OK for Jedi to start using Force Lighting...in the sense, that Jedi even used it to begin with. Unless its only instances where said Jedi was angry, that is fine and shouldn't be considered a normal power for them to use...but if its something that they just use...then no. Electric Judgement? Fine...but Force Lighting? No.

 

Separate the two and have only Judgement used by Jedi and Lighting by Sith/Dark Jedi. There isn't an excuse for Jedi to use Force Lighting all willy nilly, when they have Judgement to use unless they have moments of anger.

Oh haven't you heard? Anything goes in the post-ROTJ era!

 

But seriously, I think it was more of an outburst I'm not sure. She had to draw on her emotions to use it and I don't think she ever used it again. Basically she was using the dark side. Don't ask me why it was black.

Oh haven't you heard? Anything goes in the post-ROTJ era!

 

But seriously, I think it was more of an outburst I'm not sure. She had to draw on her emotions to use it and I don't think she ever used it again. Basically she was using the dark side. Don't ask me why it was black.

 

So then it shouldn't count as something she knows then, in the sense she uses it constantly without relying on dark emotions and all that, otherwise she wouldn't really be a Jedi at this point she could fall to the darkside. Electric Judgement is fine...that at least has some info on it making it different then Force Lighting.

Edited June 24, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

Oh haven't you heard? Anything goes in the post-ROTJ era!

 

But seriously, I think it was more of an outburst I'm not sure. She had to draw on her emotions to use it and I don't think she ever used it again. Basically she was using the dark side. Don't ask me why it was black.

 

For the same reason Luke's is Red.... and of course Luke doesn't need to use the Dark side to use lightning just like Plo Koon. Last I checked though Luke has never used his lightning to torture only to straight out kill as quickly and painlessly as possibly making it next to no different then him slicing you with his saber.

Edited June 24, 2013 by tunewalker

So then it shouldn't count as something she knows then, in the sense she uses it constantly without relying on dark emotions and all that, otherwise she wouldn't really be a Jedi at this point she could fall to the darkside. Electric Judgement is fine...that at least has some info on it making it different then Force Lighting.

That is actually a good point. I think the list should be something like this:

 

#8 Kyp Durron

#9 Jaina Solo

#10 Darth Plagueis

 

#9 and #10 being interchangeable.

 

Just my opinion, I'll see if other agree.

That is actually a good point. I think the list should be something like this:

 

#8 Kyp Durron

#9 Jaina Solo

#10 Darth Plagueis

 

#9 and #10 being interchangeable.

 

Just my opinion, I'll see if other agree.

 

Though Beni it just hit me, that if the post-ROTJ is taken away....doesn't this whole list become moot? I mean it just seems like, making a definite list is impossible as it all could just change completely and get rid of pretty much a few characters on the list. Ok maybe wouldn't mess up the whole list, but those with post-ROTJ EU chars.

 

Which brings up another point, that I think we shouldn't use post-ROTJ chars for the reason that it may happen.

Edited June 24, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

Oh haven't you heard? Anything goes in the post-ROTJ era!

 

But seriously, I think it was more of an outburst I'm not sure. She had to draw on her emotions to use it and I don't think she ever used it again. Basically she was using the dark side. Don't ask me why it was black.

 

Actually from the little bit I can gather both her and Kyp along with Luke, Mara, Kyle and Jaden and Relin Druur. Could all use Force lightning at will with out using the darkside while Jaina came close to the darkside once she didn't turn and from the information she legitimately learned how to use light side lightning....... we have to remember that Luke may not have known about Electrical Judgement and opted just to call it the same thing as the Sith Variant as it has some of the same properties just a different way of tapping into it....... This also kind of just says the same thing I have always believed and that is no power is inherently dark or light its how you use it any one can learn to use lightning as light side its just insanely difficult to do with out emotions but if you have the self control and the strength to do it you can do it just like any sith it just harder just like Yoda always said Darkside is easier more seductive but not more powerful.

I don't think Plagueis should make to the list. Honestly, when it comes about him, people tend to analyze him more as the legendary being described by Sidious to Anakin, than what he truly was. Very Strong with the force, could master unnusual techniques, but still, he doesn'y have any great feat that can bias him.

 

As I still think that Windu is more powerful than Jaina, I agree more with your last list Beni, I would just replace Plagueis in favor of Windu, Exar Kun, Darth Tyrannus or Revan.

We already know Jaina Solo was the second best Jedi in the whole Order by FOTJ, she is more powerful than Kyp, Kyle Katarn admitted she had surpassed him way back in LOTF.

I don't think Plagueis should make to the list. Honestly, when it comes about him, people tend to analyze him more as the legendary being described by Sidious to Anakin, than what he truly was. Very Strong with the force, could master unnusual techniques, but still, he doesn'y have any great feat that can bias him.

 

As I still think that Windu is more powerful than Jaina, I agree more with your last list Beni, I would just replace Plagueis in favor of Windu, Exar Kun, Darth Tyrannus or Revan.

I'm analyzing him purely by the abilities he has performed in the novel Darth Plagueis, and in that he surpasses Windu, by a small amount, but he still surpasses him. Both have shown nigh equal ability to Alter but I believe Plagueis ability to manipulate life both to bring others back from the dead, and achieve immortality himself, outweigh any innate ability that Windu possesses in Shatterpoint.

 

He also, in terms of Sense, learnt how to become a Force ghost. He should not be underestimated, clearly one has to be powerful to manipulate the Force itself.

We already know Jaina Solo was the second best Jedi in the whole Order by FOTJ, she is more powerful than Kyp, Kyle Katarn admitted she had surpassed him way back in LOTF.

 

^This pretty much says it.

Though Beni it just hit me, that if the post-ROTJ is taken away....doesn't this whole list become moot? I mean it just seems like, making a definite list is impossible as it all could just change completely and get rid of pretty much a few characters on the list. Ok maybe wouldn't mess up the whole list, but those with post-ROTJ EU chars.

 

Which brings up another point, that I think we shouldn't use post-ROTJ chars for the reason that it may happen.

I see your point, but lets remember that's two years away. Taking away post-ROTJ would make things easier, but it would also leave big gaps (e.g. Luke Skywalker) and wouldn't really be indicative of the current Star Wars mythos. Maybe if were all hear in two years time we can revise it. But that's a little forward thinking.

 

Position #8 is really difficult though. Perhaps if everyone puts forward their arguments for that position (I think the Jaina supporters have made their point) and we shall see...

 

EDIT: Or at least who is stronger, Kyp Durron or Jaina Solo.

Edited June 24, 2013 by Beniboybling

Oh haven't you heard? Anything goes in the post-ROTJ era!

 

But seriously, I think it was more of an outburst I'm not sure. She had to draw on her emotions to use it and I don't think she ever used it again. Basically she was using the dark side. Don't ask me why it was black.

 

Wrong, she first used it whilst young, then later used it multiple times fighting the Yuuzhan Vong and much later was not morally afraid to kill members of the Lost Tribe with it.

Edited June 25, 2013 by LadyKulvax

I take issue with the idea that lightsaber proficiency does not require a high level of force power. All the best lightsaber duelists were very powerful in the force, and the force abilities required to use a lightsaber on that level require a tremendous amount of ability. Luke, Sidious, Mace Windu, Anakin, Yoda, Dooku, etc. That aside, Jaina has shown herself to be one of the greatest practitioners of all the force abilities that augment lightsaber use (force cloaking, force speed). She is so fast that she fooled her brother into thinking she was Luke in their first dual. Add to that the healing ability, force lightning and telekinetic abilities, beast control, mind and memory control, etc., and I just put her ahead of Kyp Durron and/or Plagueis. Her contemporaries have noted she is by now (the latest point in her timeline in the EU) the second most powerful Jedi behind her uncle. That puts her ahead of Kyp along with a gaggle of other top masters who are all from the strongest era for Jedi. Kyp has a lot of raw power, but he has struggled at times to control that power. Jaina is a master of controlling her abilities to maximize her potential.

Plagueis should be above all existing jedi from the New Sith Wars up untill the end of the SW mythos.Except the one whose name i will not mention. Edited June 25, 2013 by Kaedusz