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Consular PvE low DPS and other issues?


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As soon as I find it and figure out how to upload, ill post last parser from TfB HM first boss where sustained over the entire fight was 1760. I was on the boss 90% of the time to beat enrage timer and this is on my Balance Shadow
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Please link me to some logs on boss fights where you pull sustained DPS

over 1400.

Here are combat logs from a number of different players:

 

Commando dps:

SM Gharj, 1545 dps

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/combatlog/a066aa84-da55-4d22-8cff-5d33cfff8066/overview#d=0,f=23,b=1

 

SM Jarg/Sorno, 1567 dps

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/combatlog/8113b575-dbf8-4f51-8c87-6e13e456d251/overview#d=0,f=16,b=1

 

SM Toth/Zorn, 1515 dps

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/combatlog/afb45ce9-2aa6-41f3-8283-d99c9a087117/overview#d=0,f=2,t=11,b=1

 

HM Foreman Crusher, 1545 dps

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/combatlog/2d7ecf11-d96b-4cc0-b0d1-dddaf955e38c/overview#d=0,f=39,b=1

 

HM Karagga, 1639 dps

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/combatlog/e8858a96-5c45-4fb0-8929-6c88c7030bbd/overview#d=0,f=36,b=1

 

HM Firebrand/Stormcaller, 1550 dps

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/combatlog/c8fd35ec-54b0-4851-b16c-2bfb1ab1124b/overview#d=0,f=17,b=1

 

Mercenary dps (mirror class):

HM Annihilation Droid, 1597 dps

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/combatlog/df96f00f-9f8c-4618-884c-ed2cac08914b/overview#d=0,f=2,t=2,b=1

 

HM Bonethrasher, 1734 dps

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/combatlog/0859e413-cd11-459b-9354-841a381f9d49/overview#d=0,f=22,b=1

 

HM Toth/Zorn, 1551 dps

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/combatlog/d6787887-bdae-4218-9886-c44f61f27b77/overview#d=0,f=1,b=1

 

HM Kephess, 1661 dps

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/combatlog/3bd031af-3404-404d-8271-f592ce943547/overview#d=0,f=28,b=1

 

NM Annihilation droid (16man), 1890 dps, 1713 dps, 1605 dps, 1456 dps

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/combatlog/f4add78b-b622-4093-9c2b-f3653ced85c7/overview#d=0,f=3,t=21,b=1

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If as a shadow you are pulling low dps you are either not geared right or not playing right. Shadows in blance spec are the first or second highest dps class in the game. I dont know who you all have in your guids that play shadow but if they are pulling ow numbers they just dont know what they are doing. Also with the changes to infiltration I can keep up with and sometimes out dps a balance spec shadow if the fight has any type of break in the action. Either spec just has a different pay style you have to adjust for. As a shadow with any dps spec stack power and surge as much as you can. if you dont have 900+ bonus damage then you are wrong that is for PVE and PVP. You should only have between 20 and 25 percent crit unbuffed and 95-96 percent accuracy. Everything else should be wilpower power and surge. Do this learn to use your skills and in pvp and pve there is no other class that can touch you in damage. Also you have to understand that shadow are more of a single target class so in fights with aoe situations we will fall behind on damage. That should be expected high numbers are not everything. And I do even need to discuss or damge out put for pvp. If you cant kill every class other than classes in tank spec in 4 attacks or less as a shadow you simply dont know what you are doing if in infiltration spec and less than 5 attacks in balance spec. If you have any doubts to what I say create a toon on the harbinger and test my guild Dead weight and our shadows will destroy you and you wil be able to see waht a shadow is capable of.
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Who here thinks the Shadow is nothing more than a merger DPS character? To me it's DPS is very much lacking in PvE. People claim it's burst DPS is so great and yet with all the stuns and knock backs you rarely get a full DPS burst on anything but a weak NPC. So what does the consular need? Shorter cool downs on sprint burst and force cloak? A low leveled, under geared, Scoundrel can do more DPS than my L50 Shadow can do. The scoundrel can do 4000+ damage and that's not even crit damage, where as I'm doing the same with crits and 60% black hole gear.

 

Now I'm talking to those shadows that PvE. Not PvP players owning nubs with high level PvP gear. So how does BW fix this class that's been so neglected for so long? I'm talking about mediocre DPS, ugly gear looks, we are required to spend twice as much to get the correct black hole stats and etc. Why are we so hated by BW and why has nothing been done? Rise up fellow shadows! Say something.

 

+1

Everyone knows it, every one see it, even BW. I can imagine, that if Consular classes would get some upgrade and Sage would act like a scoundrel healer (unlimited ista, free heal for target under 30% hp, insta aoe heal...) Shadow would have the same dps, dmg out come like knight/warrior class has now, there would be a so incredible crying on the forum from the other side, that we can't even imagine it! Thats way BW afraid of do anything....

The only thing what we can do to share our opinion, but prepare, that the 60% of the pvp/pve, class advantage, disadvantage will be decided here on the forum. The oposit classes visiting the forum, they know well there advantage and will lobby for there class. I will never believe that lie, that in a thread where you wanna suggest to upgrade Consular, will post the inverse or would go against you whos main class is consular - no one should eat it , ) They clearly lobby, and by the way, thats how it should be

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If as a shadow you are pulling low dps you are either not geared right or not playing right. Shadows in blance spec are the first or second highest dps class in the game. I dont know who you all have in your guids that play shadow but if they are pulling ow numbers they just dont know what they are doing. Also with the changes to infiltration I can keep up with and sometimes out dps a balance spec shadow if the fight has any type of break in the action. Either spec just has a different pay style you have to adjust for. As a shadow with any dps spec stack power and surge as much as you can. if you dont have 900+ bonus damage then you are wrong that is for PVE and PVP. You should only have between 20 and 25 percent crit unbuffed and 95-96 percent accuracy. Everything else should be wilpower power and surge. Do this learn to use your skills and in pvp and pve there is no other class that can touch you in damage. Also you have to understand that shadow are more of a single target class so in fights with aoe situations we will fall behind on damage. That should be expected high numbers are not everything. And I do even need to discuss or damge out put for pvp. If you cant kill every class other than classes in tank spec in 4 attacks or less as a shadow you simply dont know what you are doing if in infiltration spec and less than 5 attacks in balance spec. If you have any doubts to what I say create a toon on the harbinger and test my guild Dead weight and our shadows will destroy you and you wil be able to see waht a shadow is capable of.

 

Epic lobby for your main class! Gratz! quite plausible , )

 

When you suggest something like "Everything else should be wilpower power and surge" -

http://www.jedilace.com/2012/02/01/when-is-too-much-surge-bad-for-digestion/

When was the last time, when you played with your Shadow? : ) who is " the first or second highest dps class in the game" ? : )

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LuciferinDNA, I've followed your other thread and seen your posts one about consulars. Read what I'm about to write carefully as I am going to state some facts, and they are facts because they are based on my extensive usage of my main, which is a Consular Shadow in Balance skill spec who has been 50 since May. Your comments about the consular dps being crap is unfounded conjecture based on an inability to play the class properly (easy enough if you research and have a think about it).

 

My shadow is currently parsing over 1600 on the dummy (I have logs to post if you want proof) and there are still improvements I can see to be made to my ability usage (ie. not refreshing dots too early). Ignoring these improvements which I estimate to be in the order of 50-100 dps increase. I need to obtain my lvl 61 main and offhands (currently 58). This has been shown (not estimated, Shown) to increase dps by around 100 on a dummy. This would put my dummy dps at around 1700.

 

Now take into account that you have no inspiration (sentinels) and no armor debuff (bunch of other classes). When you gain these 2 things in a raid, over 5minutes, your dps will be at or above that of the other classes. With the added benefit, that your dots keep your sustained dps up constantly when moving and you have zero channelled abilities to get interrupted.

 

Basically, the shadow dps is not in trouble at all. Sage..maybe, not sure. But shadows have excellent dps and people need to realise that if they aren't hitting those numbers (which with really good players on good computers are above mine by a fair margin) they either are not geared properly, or, they aren't playing the class properly.

 

In summary...

Stop posting about crap dps. It doesn't even matter because it will change over time anyway!

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The Shadow Balance tree parses right there with Sentinels and Gunslingers. It is one of the best DPS specs in the game.

 

Sages have a more legitimate beef. My sage is in optimized BH/campaign gear and I parse around 1600 on the dummy. I'm between 1300 and 1700 on boss encounters, depending on the boss and the mechanic.

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I am not a big numbers pusher so I've been reading this thread mostly as passenger so far. I just find it curious that I never really felt like being an an inferior damage dealer as an infiltration shadow. Recently I've been mostly doing Tier 1 Hard Modes and Dailies to gain access Black Hole commendation and switch from a mix of Columi and Rakata gear I still have from bein in a raiding guild for a while to Black Hole gear, and assemble a second set of Columi gear to be able to switch my spec to tanking on Columi level.

 

In the past few days, since I have equipped every single piece of equipment with an Advanced Resolve Augment, I rather have the feeling I outdamage most others on those flashpoints, even when I am not using stims at all (and I usually do use at least NPC vendor stims in team content, since I kinda feel I owe it to my team to do my best, even if 90% is enough). During ongoing fights the tanks lost agro to me several times, in some instances when I did use stims I had to use Force Cloak and focus for a moment on tactical abilities to give the tank a chance to get agro back.

 

However, reading to this thread and the suggestions I read hear I should be insanely weak and not even worth engaging in PvE. You can see my stats in the following screenshots for my infeltration shadow. It includes the four class buffs and a normal, NPC vendor Superior Resolve Stim (Willpower +60). For serious content I would of course buy exotech stims (Willpower +123) which would give me another 63 Willpower and boost it above 2000.

 

http://imageshack.us/a/img716/9414/ausetstats.png

 

I know many people suggest to raise willpower no higher than 1600 and start investing in power after that because it gives slightly more damage, but I just love to see high scores in willpower and love to have a high crit rating, because as infiltration shadow I benefit from crits greatly. A point in willpower gives 100 points in power are 23 bonus damage, 100 points in willpower are modified to 105 by the class buff and result in 21 bonus damage and a slight increase of crit rating in the range of 0.0063 per point - i.e. 100 willpower raise the crit rating percentage by 0.63. Given that infiltration shadows benefit from crits I think that's a viable choice, investing in power would raise the overall damage only on a marginal level - we're taking about 20 points of bonus damage more for 1000 points invested in power instead of willpower (again, calculating in the class buff and effectively assuming 1050 willpower).

 

I like to have a high accuracy and actually wanted to raise it to 98.5% - 99% because I just hate to miss. When I solo the Belsavis dailies (I don't stealth them, I usually kill them all, better money/time turnout) and a low slash misses in the wrong moment it can be the death of me. Overall it may not make such a big difference if you miss every 20th blow (95% accuracy) or every 25th blow (96% accuracy) but I prefer to be precise.

 

I am not anywhere near the 900 bonus damage suggested earlier and that really sounds a little utopic to me unless I was on full campaign gear. (But if I was ono full campaign gear I would likely not play the character anymore.) I don't have the +10 on all datacron but that wouldn't make that much of a difference. 10 strength and 10 willpower adds four points bonus damage...

 

And yet, I simply don't feel weak...

 

My clairvoyant strikes usually hit for ... I think 2000 - 3000 (I usually focus on the fight itself, it's important to me to maintain a tactical overview and not just fire my rotation, and ignore the numbers on the screen, last time I did Collicoid War Game in Hard Mode the death of the final enemy completely surprised me, since I was so focused on keeping an eye on everyone's health, keeping my rotation up, watching out for the floor based effects and keeping an eye on how the tank is fairing in case I have to take over, that the death of the enemy completely surprised me. I could have sworn he was at 40% health when he died.). I don't remember a project hitting for less than 4000 recently, and it's not uncommon the hit for something in the range of 6500.

Edited by Rabenschwinge
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The Shadow Balance tree parses right there with Sentinels and Gunslingers. It is one of the best DPS specs in the game.

 

Sages have a more legitimate beef. My sage is in optimized BH/campaign gear and I parse around 1600 on the dummy. I'm between 1300 and 1700 on boss encounters, depending on the boss and the mechanic.

 

They do? I've never seen a parse from a shadow at around 2,000 dps on the dummy, if you know of any I'd like to see. Also sages should be 1,800+ in bh/campaign on the dummy.

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LuciferinDNA, I've followed your other thread and seen your posts one about consulars. Read what I'm about to write carefully as I am going to state some facts, and they are facts because they are based on my extensive usage of my main, which is a Consular Shadow in Balance skill spec who has been 50 since May. Your comments about the consular dps being crap is unfounded conjecture based on an inability to play the class properly (easy enough if you research and have a think about it).

 

My shadow is currently parsing over 1600 on the dummy (I have logs to post if you want proof) and there are still improvements I can see to be made to my ability usage (ie. not refreshing dots too early). Ignoring these improvements which I estimate to be in the order of 50-100 dps increase. I need to obtain my lvl 61 main and offhands (currently 58). This has been shown (not estimated, Shown) to increase dps by around 100 on a dummy. This would put my dummy dps at around 1700.

 

Now take into account that you have no inspiration (sentinels) and no armor debuff (bunch of other classes). When you gain these 2 things in a raid, over 5minutes, your dps will be at or above that of the other classes. With the added benefit, that your dots keep your sustained dps up constantly when moving and you have zero channelled abilities to get interrupted.

 

Basically, the shadow dps is not in trouble at all. Sage..maybe, not sure. But shadows have excellent dps and people need to realise that if they aren't hitting those numbers (which with really good players on good computers are above mine by a fair margin) they either are not geared properly, or, they aren't playing the class properly.

 

In summary...

Stop posting about crap dps. It doesn't even matter because it will change over time anyway!

 

Thanks for your post and your suggestions!

I use Balance till Adjudication with combat spec, in this way, what I mentioned in another thread :

"I focused on put 22 points to Kinetic combat, till "Harmessed Shadows" for a little self heal and my other goal was to use spinning kicks out of stealth by "stasis". Then I use balance tree till adjudication to have +50% crit dmg from double strike, what I use a lot for "Particle Acceleration" for crit project what I combined with "Force Potency" when "Harmessed Shadows" has 3 stacks (so project first, till its insta with critic + 50% + 50% from upheaval(if I have luck, )) then TT till its uninterruptible with 3 stack"

I can bring out the most dps from this combo (my reached 50 4 weeks after the launch, but I made some pauses)

 

I don't use dummy I get my experiences from FPs, rides, WZ and open world pvp. I see clearly, that if a sent/guardian/gunslinger - dps team ride with us in a FP, the same boss group goes down in half time then if we would have just Shadow, Sage -dps. In WS balance tree don't works, just if you kite all the time and stay in background (quite hard with 4-10 m range) if the enemy focus on you, you don't have 15-20 sec till your dots finish there ticks)

 

By the way, some droids are immune to internal dmg? or I mix something up now? : )

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Thanks for your post and your suggestions!

I use Balance till Adjudication with combat spec, in this way, what I mentioned in another thread :

"I focused on put 22 points to Kinetic combat, till "Harmessed Shadows" for a little self heal and my other goal was to use spinning kicks out of stealth by "stasis". Then I use balance tree till adjudication to have +50% crit dmg from double strike, what I use a lot for "Particle Acceleration" for crit project what I combined with "Force Potency" when "Harmessed Shadows" has 3 stacks (so project first, till its insta with critic + 50% + 50% from upheaval(if I have luck, )) then TT till its uninterruptible with 3 stack"

I can bring out the most dps from this combo (my reached 50 4 weeks after the launch, but I made some pauses)

 

I don't use dummy I get my experiences from FPs, rides, WZ and open world pvp. I see clearly, that if a sent/guardian/gunslinger - dps team ride with us in a FP, the same boss group goes down in half time then if we would have just Shadow, Sage -dps. In WS balance tree don't works, just if you kite all the time and stay in background (quite hard with 4-10 m range) if the enemy focus on you, you don't have 15-20 sec till your dots finish there ticks)

 

By the way, some droids are immune to internal dmg? or I mix something up now? : )

 

Nice pvp build, it has no bearing whatsoever at all on pve and how to dps.

 

Please just stop posting, sages and shadows are fine.There is nothign wrong with not being the top dogs. Being in the middle is ideal and doesn't result in massive swings of the buff/nerf bat,

 

I am honestly sick to death with hearing how bad x,y,z class is, especially when its from people who honestly have no clue *** they're doing.

 

I have never ever felt that my dps has dragged my ops group down, and that was in HM EC prior to augments being readily available.

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Nice pvp build, it has no bearing whatsoever at all on pve and how to dps.

 

Please just stop posting, sages and shadows are fine.There is nothign wrong with not being the top dogs. Being in the middle is ideal and doesn't result in massive swings of the buff/nerf bat,

 

I am honestly sick to death with hearing how bad x,y,z class is, especially when its from people who honestly have no clue *** they're doing.

 

I have never ever felt that my dps has dragged my ops group down, and that was in HM EC prior to augments being readily available.

 

Sorry friend I won't stop posting, till a subscriber I'm allowed to use the forum, react to threads and share my opinion, till its not against the rules.

Any way, I never asked you to stop posting about "sages and shadows are fine" Its your opinion and I respect it.

 

By the way, I see you have 4 lvl 50 characters, what char of your has the most pve/pvp commendation, best gear sett? I am just curious.

 

Peace!

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Sorry friend I won't stop posting, till a subscriber I'm allowed to use the forum, react to threads and share my opinion, till its not against the rules.

Any way, I never asked you to stop posting about "sages and shadows are fine" Its your opinion and I respect it.

 

By the way, I see you have 4 lvl 50 characters, what char of your has the most pve/pvp commendation, best gear sett? I am just curious.

 

Peace!

 

My shadow was my main prior to 1.4 but my guild fell apart and its alot easier to get a guild as a healer. My other toons are pretty close to the shadow gearwise (mostly 61 modded) with rakata filling the other slots.

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Luciferin your build is a PvP build if anything, for PvE the best build is 31 balance with leftovers in the other 2 trees.

For those using infiltration, it's not a terrible build especially for fights with burst phases, but in the majority a balance spec will pull away, if only because any fight which involves not being able to melee a boss means an infiltration shadow is doing not much, a balance shadow will have at least 2 very strong dots on constantly.

Force in Balance is a 0 - 30m range not 10-30m.

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Balance/Madness Shadows/Sins are in the top 3 for highest DPS AC's; only problem is that so very few players are able to reach that its not even worth noting it.

Sentinel/Marauders are still the highest (in full 63 gear, the noted Max DPS is 2524 dps), with PT's at about 2100 and Assassins/Shadows at 2026 DPS.

Everything else runs mid 1900's for the most part. (These are SimC numbers, or DPSCraft.) In real parsing, I can break 2100 on a dummy on my mara regularly, with some parses breaking 2.3k

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Balance/Madness Shadows/Sins are in the top 3 for highest DPS AC's; only problem is that so very few players are able to reach that its not even worth noting it.

Sentinel/Marauders are still the highest (in full 63 gear, the noted Max DPS is 2524 dps), with PT's at about 2100 and Assassins/Shadows at 2026 DPS.

Everything else runs mid 1900's for the most part. (These are SimC numbers, or DPSCraft.) In real parsing, I can break 2100 on a dummy on my mara regularly, with some parses breaking 2.3k

 

And by very few, I am yet to find anyone who has logged a parse on Torparse who has reach even close to the SimC value.

Have you got a link to your marauders parses breaking 2.3k on the dummy? Or 2.1k for that matter? would be interested to see that if it's really that high so I can show my sentinel raid member.

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Check the shadow section for post 1.4 inf parses.

 

There are a few shadows there posting 1550ish sustained damage on Ops dummies. Thats without armour debuffs or inspiration. 1550 is good, more than enough to beat any HM in the game.

 

Then go check AskMrRobot. Do a search for ranked logs. Search EC HM kills and TFB kills. There are sages getting 1700-2200 DPS in TFB HM. Again, thats extremely high. (Search for Wrath of the Forsaken guild on The Ebon Hawk, they seem to be pretty epic on DPS numbers).

 

 

I've basically come to the conclusion that all classes are capable of beating all bosses in game, you dont need carrying. Some classes can do more top end damage than others, but thats just a fact of life.

 

The main issue is ease of use. For example, its easier to hit 1500 DPS on a sentinel compared to a shadow, but it is hard on both classes to hit their peak DPS numbers. Practice, research and player skill are the key. If you are a good player it doesn't matter what class you're on, you'll never need to be carried. If you're an average player then it will definitely be hard to hit high numbers on something like a shadow.

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PVE infiltration does not shine as I hope it would. Even as well geared as my toon is, I find other DPS kill their mobs in the EV 1v1 encounter before I do, and frankly it's a bit embarassing. PVP wise however, infiltration is a strong class, mainly down to our CC abilities. I won't go into any detail because this is a PVE concerned thread, but PVP is wonderfully balanced at the moment.

 

I love both the aspects of the game and I'm finding it frustrating at the moment that in PVE I get a load of stick with people saying "Why the hell are you playing dps shadow?". My rotation at the moment now is a little bit different with the changes to the CS buff meaning force regeneration is a bit more consistent rather than how touch and go it used to be. Double strike is now featuring for a change, and shadow strike is getting a much better look in. I agree that somehow infiltration should get a better look in for PvE dps, but as to the how, I'm at a bit of a loss.

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So tired of seeing complaints from DPS Shadows. Balance Shadows are one of the best PvE specs in the game, and no one who knows what they are talking about would question why you are running a DPS Shadow. Infiltration is more of a PvP spec, but you have the option to do insane PvE damage with a Shadow. None of the Sage specs put out the damage a Balance Shadow can do in PvE. If you don't like your DPS output in Infiltration, switch out of your PvP spec into a PvE spec. It's that simple.
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So tired of seeing complaints from DPS Shadows. Balance Shadows are one of the best PvE specs in the game, and no one who knows what they are talking about would question why you are running a DPS Shadow. Infiltration is more of a PvP spec, but you have the option to do insane PvE damage with a Shadow. None of the Sage specs put out the damage a Balance Shadow can do in PvE. If you don't like your DPS output in Infiltration, switch out of your PvP spec into a PvE spec. It's that simple.

 

You're ridiculous. I like both PVP and PVE. But without a dual spec system I can't do both. I'm missing out on one thing or the other. I can't afford to change around that much.

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