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PvP is a mess (imo)

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
PvP is a mess (imo)

Xargas's Avatar


Xargas
02.24.2020 , 06:50 PM | #1
Why it's a mess? The thing that annoys the hell out of me is how long it takes to kill a player, a player that is not even in tank spec. I see it often, one dude running around causing mayhem while 3 or 4 players wailing on him despite having 306 gear, and they can do nothing about it, since it's his abilities that made him a freaking terminator. Some classes can down a player fast, like a sorc for example, everyone knows how squishy the sorc is, so I won't go there.

I play sorc by the way, 306 gear, fully augmented, now I don't consider myself a bad player when it comes to dealing damage, before swtor I played WoW and had high rating in the arena, so I think I know my games. My point is, it doesn't feel like I am making any impact, yes I see the damage I am doing, but it is so small that it bores me, it is so bad that in some fights I just zone out, out of boredom. I have a sin max level also, fully geared, same story, a bit better, but still, it is very boring.

The game is awesome, I like the story, I like the scenery, I like music etc. But PvP? Eh, it sucks....

What I am asking devs to do, is to make players die faster in PvP, not the sorcs though, they are already at the bottom...
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TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
02.24.2020 , 08:21 PM | #2
While some classes are out of balance and there are too many immunities, most of what you are talking about is skill imbalance.
There are players whoíve been in this game for a long time and know every class intimately. They donít even need to be the top 5% of players to look over powered because sadly, the majority of the pvp community has no idea how to play their own class, let alone how the other classes work to counter them.

This is in no way an attack on you or your gaming ability or other players. Itís just how badly Bioware have handled and developed the game over the last 4 years.

First Bioware dumbed down the whole game. ie, made it super easy to play the pve aspect and made companions over powered that you couldnít die. At the same time they made it so gear didnít matter in pve as well. Then they removed pvp gear, which lead to people not playing lowbie pvp as they lvlíd up, which is where they should be learning how to play properly.
Add all of that together and you have a recipe for player who donít understand what an interrupt is, what a defensive CD is, what a dps rotation is, what abilities are priorities in pvp combat, what utilities to use and how they benefit them in pvp and lastly, what stats should be used.
And that was 4 years ago.

Fast forward 3-4 years and you have the majority of the player base with less skill than the longer term players. You also have the problem (which you kind of hit on) of Bioware making classes too hard to kill because of too many immunities etc.
On top of that you have this stupid mentality where no one wants to win and just get numbers on the score board and you have death squads or gank squads running all over the maps.
And sadly, part of the reason is these guys canít kill anyone by themselves and need the group to artificially help buff their numbers.
Most of these guys get annihilated if they get into a 1v1 or even 2v1 with any who can play. So they are too scared to even try.

The state of pvp skill is now the worst this game has ever had. Now some players seem like they are total wreaking balls, even players like myself who were average to above average in the earlier years of the game are nearly unstoppable because the difference in skill is night and day.
There is hardly any middle ground between those that understand their classes and how to play properly and those that just queue and run around smashing things to get epeen points on the stat boards.
Of course there are still some really good players around, but they are few and far between. It also doesnít matter what class they are because you wonít kill them and they will wreak you hard.

While there are definite issues around class balance and immunities, mobility and stuns/mez, that is not the biggest factor thatís lead to the situation youíve described.
I can literally run 3-4 guys around for a large chunk of time on most of my classes. Especially Jugg. Iím damn hard to kill in regs. But if I were to take my Jugg into ranked, Iíd be lucky to last 40 secs.
Where as my Sorc has always been hard to kill, even when they were weak under the last meta I could run players around the map. Sorcs have some of the best defenses and tools to stay alive in the game. Only Stealths have better IMO.

Skill is the biggest factor why 3-4 people canít kill one.

Xargas's Avatar


Xargas
02.24.2020 , 08:45 PM | #3
I think when you have 3-4 people on you, skill shouldn't matter that much. While I like when there is room for skill, and work arounds to some situations, I think this is too much. I agree on dumbing down the game though...
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TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
02.24.2020 , 09:26 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by Xargas View Post
I think when you have 3-4 people on you, skill shouldn't matter that much. While I like when there is room for skill, and work arounds to some situations, I think this is too much. I agree on dumbing down the game though...
I agree, 3-4 people should be able to kill one person. The reality is some canít because of skill discrepancy.
In a stand up fight where no one moved and 3-4 people hit the one guy and none of them move, the solo guy would melt, even with the best DCDs in the game.

But thatís not how it works and thatís where the skill part comes in. If you know how to LOS properly, know how to seperate the group so they donít all hit you at once and you can time you DCDs accordingly, you can run people around like this all over the map.

You donít even need to kill them or do much damage to them if your goal is to delay them or make them chase you. Remember, while these 3-4 guys are on one person, the rest of their team is 7v3-4 and at a distinct disadvantage.
Also, I you are solo defending, it helps to know some tricks to staying a live as long as you can till your back up arrives (hopefully).

The skill is knowing how to counter those attacking you, thatís half the battle right there. I know most classes and specs very well because I play most of them. So I know whatís coming before it often happens and I also know their weaknesses to exploit.
There is rarely any non stealth class I canít beat 1v1 in reg pvp. The people who can beat me in reg pvp in 1v1 are either the same skill level as me or better.

Iím in no way a pvp god or even a 5% at the top of skilled players. But with so many players at my skill lvl or above constantly leaving, Iím finding myself moving up the percentage of players who can play properly. And at the same time, those coming through seem to be less skilled and are not improving because they arenít learning anything except epeening in gank groups all over the stats board.
If anything, I feel like my skill lvl has dropped in the last 2 years because Iíve had less good players to hone my skills against and get better. Iíve become lazy and complacent. It seemed like I plateaued in skill after my pvp guild quit in 5.0 and even started to go backwards.

The only way the skill lvl is going to improve in reg pvp is if people play it properly and care about winning more than the stats board. Which often means playing a match based on who you are against and the conditions presented. If I have to sacrifice my own dps output to wins match, I will gladly do it. If I can run 3-4 guys all over the map by myself and do no damage, I will do it if it helps my team win. Can you say you would do the same? How many others would do the same to get a win these days? I bet there arenít very many or any.

Basically, if 2 dps players canít kill one non stealth player, there is a skill discrepancy there. When 3 players canít kill the one player, that skill discrepancy is even larger and if 4 canít kill that one player, then the skill discrepancy is huge. And that doesnít even mean the solo guy is a pvp god, it just means the others need more practice.

Raansu's Avatar


Raansu
02.25.2020 , 12:47 PM | #5
While I do agree that damage is too low for how large the health pools are now, I do need to bring up one thing. Being at 306 doesn't mean jack and its part of the problem with this games new gearing system. If you don't have your set bonus and the BiS tactical and all the good rolls on your amps plus having all your gear augmented then being in 306 is meaningless. Baseline 306 gear is un-optimized trash and you may as well be wearing nothing.

Doesn't help that pvp gives basically nothing in terms of rewards so if you're trying to get your set pieces you're wasting your time pvping. PvP matches should give like 80-100 tech frags at the end of the match.

Rion_Starkiller's Avatar


Rion_Starkiller
02.25.2020 , 02:14 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Xargas View Post
I think when you have 3-4 people on you, skill shouldn't matter that much. While I like when there is room for skill, and work arounds to some situations, I think this is too much. I agree on dumbing down the game though...
Kind of sounds like a L2P issue, TBH. If you want to kill people, then play a single target burst spec.

I don't know if there are a lot of new players, or if 6.0 put a magnifying glass to player skill disparity, but I am seeing some truly awful DPS in warzones lately. I could hit my basic attack -only- all match and out-dps some of these folks.
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Thanks Rion Starbrah.

abhaxus's Avatar


abhaxus
02.25.2020 , 08:47 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Xargas View Post
I think when you have 3-4 people on you, skill shouldn't matter that much. While I like when there is room for skill, and work arounds to some situations, I think this is too much. I agree on dumbing down the game though...
On my leth op I can easily do 5 or 6k HPS if my goal is solely to survive and delay a node capture. Against 3 players who are only capable of 2k DPS, I can extend the fight indefinitely. Most players in this game are not capable of topping 2k DPS against a single target for an extended period. Just look at the scoreboard at the end of every warzone. Most of the regular players in this game are just bad.

If you're in an actually competitive game, with 8 players with full understanding of how to use their classes, only a few specs can survive against more than one DPS for an extended period, and certainly not indefinitely. Op DPS, deception sin, merc heals, and the three tank specs.
Abhaxus - Sorc heal/dps | Pill Cosby - leth op | Buubi'sett - PT | Snugglenaut - Jugg hybrid | Wayward'son - sniper | Abhaxuus - Mara | Weezles - Scoundrel | AŖhaxus - Sage | Spankasin - tankasin | AŖhole - Commando

TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
02.26.2020 , 08:12 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Rion_Starkiller View Post

I don't know if there are a lot of new players, or if 6.0 put a magnifying glass to player skill disparity, but I am seeing some truly awful DPS in warzones lately. I could hit my basic attack -only- all match and out-dps some of these folks.
This is so true. Even my wife who is a complete pvp noob is coming second only to me in most reg arena matches and I usually do 1.5-2x the dps to her and sheís doing 1.5-2x dps to the next highest on either team.

In a couple of mid matches, she was totally getting focused/globaled on her sniper one night by a bunch of stealths. So much so she could hardly get off a 100k per round (but I noticed they didnít do much damage singly). She was ready to quit from frustration until I told her to forget the rotation and spam her basic attack and run, los, cover, etc. it totally threw these guys off and she was back to doing 1 mil a round. Because they did zero damage after their 3x openers on her. She just ran them about while I smashed them on my Jugg. Good times

Dps out put in 75 and mids is really bad these days. Especially when most of the time they are ONLY group pounding people the whole time. I can literally guard a node all match, have maybe 2-3 guys attack me and still do more damage then these guys. I actually see people do better dps out put in lowbies than most other brackets.

Nemmar's Avatar


Nemmar
02.27.2020 , 09:51 PM | #9
I am in absolute shock.

This thread could not be farther from the truth. Maybe 70k hits aren't enough for you? It's only one quarter of a players health in one hit.
Deary me... if the insane burst and weak healing havent clued you in on this it's because you've got something to learn. Especially a lightning sorc. I can only assume you are not optimised in gear or rotation. Gearing doesnt end at 306. You need augments, the right armorings/mods/enhancements and the right amps, set bonus and tactical. If you dont have at least some of those your post is moot.
If you thought you were gonna hit fresh 306 and start owning you had it coming. I have no idea how you think that worked on wow as well. The thing must be completely deserted these days for undergeared people to get in pvp and start owning without essences and azerite gear. Maybe you played in Legion when they had templates? Yeah, good times but they are over.

Im gonna be pretty clear here. If 3 players cant kill one, they are bad. That simple. No one can handle that much pressure without heavy kiting. If you try the class they are playing out, you will know what to do. There is only one spec that is OP in the survival department wich is ruffian scoundrel and operative counterpart. Their self heals are out of whack cause it didnt get nerfed with the rest of the healing. Others, it's an L2P issue. Learn their defensives and when to stun them.

Raansu's Avatar


Raansu
02.28.2020 , 12:10 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Nemmar View Post
I am in absolute shock.

This thread could not be farther from the truth. Maybe 70k hits aren't enough for you? It's only one quarter of a players health in one hit.
Deary me... if the insane burst and weak healing havent clued you in on this it's because you've got something to learn. Especially a lightning sorc. I can only assume you are not optimised in gear or rotation. Gearing doesnt end at 306. You need augments, the right armorings/mods/enhancements and the right amps, set bonus and tactical. If you dont have at least some of those your post is moot.
If you thought you were gonna hit fresh 306 and start owning you had it coming. I have no idea how you think that worked on wow as well. The thing must be completely deserted these days for undergeared people to get in pvp and start owning without essences and azerite gear. Maybe you played in Legion when they had templates? Yeah, good times but they are over.

Im gonna be pretty clear here. If 3 players cant kill one, they are bad. That simple. No one can handle that much pressure without heavy kiting. If you try the class they are playing out, you will know what to do. There is only one spec that is OP in the survival department wich is ruffian scoundrel and operative counterpart. Their self heals are out of whack cause it didnt get nerfed with the rest of the healing. Others, it's an L2P issue. Learn their defensives and when to stun them.
Considering the health pools are around 285k to 300k? 70k crits is kinda nothing when you compare to a big hit back at launch was 5k to a 15k health pool. And 70k is the extreme and not common at all. Most crits are in the 40k and lower range. Talking about bursts used to be doing 33% of the hp pool to nearly less than 20%. That's a big difference. If you ask me, health pools are too large now a days.

And healing is not weak lmao. If anything trauma needs to be higher.