Still wondering how Valk's latest catchphrase "Kneel before the Dragon of Zakuul" backfired against him in Chapter 9 of KOTET?

Does it have anything to do with the fact that Valkorion consumed Vaylin's soul after her death? If so, how could the phrase work on Vaylin still? Especially after she managed to break free of its control on Nathema?

I usually search Wookiepedia, the admins there usually post a detailed synopsis of the expansion, but not this time, or at least not yet...

Any help with this twist?

Still wondering how Valk's latest catchphrase "Kneel before the Dragon of Zakuul" backfired against him in Chapter 9 of KOTET?

Does it have anything to do with the fact that Valkorion consumed Vaylin's soul after her death? If so, how could the phrase work on Vaylin still? Especially after she managed to break free of its control on Nathema?

I usually search Wookiepedia, the admins there usually post a detailed synopsis of the expansion, but not this time, or at least not yet...

Any help with this twist?

"My mind, my rules" is essentially it. The whole fight is taking place in your mind so you ultimately have control of the framework that it all takes place in. This is why Valkorion throughout the story nudges you away from thinking about him to instead thinking about Arcann and then Vaylin, and why he offers you his power to slowly weaken your hold. If you had wished to you could've fought and destroyed him at the start, as he had no grip on you and so was essentially powerless. Remember, he's "hollowing you out", not just seizing control.

"My mind, my rules" is essentially it. The whole fight is taking place in your mind so you ultimately have control of the framework that it all takes place in. This is why Valkorion throughout the story nudges you away from thinking about him to instead thinking about Arcann and then Vaylin, and why he offers you his power to slowly weaken your hold. If you had wished to you could've fought and destroyed him at the start, as he had no grip on you and so was essentially powerless. Remember, he's "hollowing you out", not just seizing control.

I agree with your take on this, but the Outlander said "My mind, my rules. And I say what's good for Vaylin is good for you" then Valkorion replies "hehehe Clever". He clearly implied to Vaylin's relation to all of this... There is also something I can't seem to fully gasp, when you release Vaylin (her soul) you release it from the Nathema holocron, how is that even possible? Since Valkorion consumed her soul to control it? (Ok maybe somehow, the sith grandpa residing in your unconsciousness managed to trap his psycophath daughter's soul in the holocron HE built ages ago to trap his own father, which is in your pocket... somehow)

But if I am to consider, what you said about the mind theory to be true, why would the Outlander use the specific sentence Valkorion used on Vaylin's conditioning if it wasn't related? Why wait, and try to trap his soul in the datacron, summoning his *quite lovely* family to aid you in the fight against him, then suddenly when he seems to be winning you remember the mind trick? Makes no sense to be honest... The plot suggests something more was at hand, a clever plot twist that was poorly executed or shown in-game maybe?

I agree with your take on this, but the Outlander said "My mind, my rules. And I say what's good for Vaylin is good for you" then Valkorion replies "hehehe Clever". He clearly implied to Vaylin's relation to all of this... There is also something I can't seem to fully gasp, when you release Vaylin (her soul) you release it from the Nathema holocron, how is that even possible? Since Valkorion consumed her soul to control it? (Ok maybe somehow, the sith grandpa residing in your unconsciousness managed to trap his psycophath daughter's soul in the holocron HE built ages ago to trap his own father, which is in your pocket... somehow)

But if I am to consider, what you said about the mind theory to be true, why would the Outlander use the specific sentence Valkorion used on Vaylin's conditioning if it wasn't related? Why wait, and try to trap his soul in the datacron, summoning his *quite lovely* family to aid you in the fight against him, then suddenly when he seems to be winning you remember the mind trick? Makes no sense to be honest... The plot suggests something more was at hand, a clever plot twist that was poorly executed or shown in-game maybe?

I don't really think Valkorion inherited Vaylin's weakness when he absorbed her spirit, but your character had an ironic sense of how to handle the situation. Up until the point where Valkorion destroy's the holocron, that was the plot devise you had against him. Once Valkorion destroyed it, your character had to find a way out of the situation, and then basically realized this was a dream world. Not only was this a dream world it was HIS/HER dream world, and as such, he/she could just make up rules. In this instance, the Outlander decided, "hey, you know how you were so terrified of your daughter becoming so powerful that you broke her mind to the point she basically lost her ability to use the force when you uttered a specific phrase? Well, here's a taste of that medicine." Notice that phrase does nothing to Vaylin at this point, highlighting that she is truly free, and your character can even tell Vaylin, "look at your father trapped in the cage he built for you." So, in a nutshell, your character basically realized that he/she could win just because of where this battle is taking place, and he/she decided to win in an ironic way.

'Your mind, your rules?' I struggled with this one too. It makes no sense!

On the contrary It makes perfect sense. Lucid dreaming is probably the best real life example of what you did to Valkorion in that final battle.

On the contrary It makes perfect sense. Lucid dreaming is probably the best real life example of what you did to Valkorion in that final battle.

That's what I thought during my first playthrough too!

Of course, being a Dark Lord, my dreams are 100% more awesome and important than the rest of the Galaxy:p

On the contrary It makes perfect sense. Lucid dreaming is probably the best real life example of what you did to Valkorion in that final battle.

The deus ex machina "my mind my rules" can make sense, but what doesn't is Valkorion not foreseeing that could happen. He doesn't seem particularly idiot nor impulsive.

But that's not what caught my attention in my first Kotet pass:

While on Nathema, before you enter his little chamber of secrets, Vaylin is performing her ritual and a fog of death is pursuing you. And as you enter the chamber and close the door, you can see the mighty Valkorion is scared.

I found that interesting ^^

I still didn't understand his goal, but haven't played any force user in kotet, so i'll see.

On the contrary It makes perfect sense. Lucid dreaming is probably the best real life example of what you did to Valkorion in that final battle.

I think this is spot on. The player's own psyche coaches them through the first part of that chapter, telling them over and over again to save themselves and leading them in the right direction. They literally build their own bridges as they repair their memories. And a lot of KOTFE and KOTET is about the Commander learning to trust in their own abilities. When Valkorion's trying to tempt them to use his power, over and over again he's telling them that they can't do it alone and undercutting their confidence. And in all the other chapters, if the Commander tells Valkorion to leave their mind, they're always sort of *asking* him...not ordering him.

So going in a Wizard of Oz type direction - "You had the power to go home all along, but you wouldn't have believed me if I'd told you before" - makes a lot of sense to me. The Commander's finally able to draw on the power to kill Valkorion once and for all because they realize they can.

I think this is spot on. The player's own psyche coaches them through the first part of that chapter, telling them over and over again to save themselves and leading them in the right direction. They literally build their own bridges as they repair their memories. And a lot of KOTFE and KOTET is about the Commander learning to trust in their own abilities. When Valkorion's trying to tempt them to use his power, over and over again he's telling them that they can't do it alone and undercutting their confidence. And in all the other chapters, if the Commander tells Valkorion to leave their mind, they're always sort of *asking* him...not ordering him.

 

So going in a Wizard of Oz type direction - "You had the power to go home all along, but you wouldn't have believed me if I'd told you before" - makes a lot of sense to me. The Commander's finally able to draw on the power to kill Valkorion once and for all because they realize they can.

Gotta give you a shout out, man. I never particularly had any issue with this scene, but this is a great job of connecting the dots that I hadn't fully seen before. Since SWTOR is a choice-based campaign, the character development of the main character isn't always clear and is presumed to be left to players' headcanons. However, this truly is a great culmination and it helps me appreciate KOTET just a little bit more. So Thanks!

It's true that while playing, that was a great moment.

As a player though, i thought "it's nice, but it's the "your choices mattered" chapter (but they didn't, really).

The only choice i wanted, i didn't get, it was not to sit on the throne, but that's my character, i'll see what happens with my Sorc who badly wants the seat ^^

But again, if Valkorion is alive and ruling at the start, why would he want anything to change, torment one person, and then try to come back on the throne in another vessel?

His vessel looked pretty ok to me, didn't seem to be consumed by power...

I guess he didn't see us meeting his father, but the dialogue after that is pretty stupid:

Valky: did he tell you something?

choices: (lie) "Nope" or "so what, ur afraid?"

I mean, he is the figure of power, are we supposed to be his equal/superior? i would understand it for the inquisitor and the jedi, makes no sense for any non force users. (except the power of friendship joker card)

ps: Eric and Charles, when will we be able to romance Valkorion, by the way? ^^

Gotta give you a shout out, man. I never particularly had any issue with this scene, but this is a great job of connecting the dots that I hadn't fully seen before. Since SWTOR is a choice-based campaign, the character development of the main character isn't always clear and is presumed to be left to players' headcanons. However, this truly is a great culmination and it helps me appreciate KOTET just a little bit more. So Thanks!

Hey, thanks very much.

It's true that while playing, that was a great moment.

As a player though, i thought "it's nice, but it's the "your choices mattered" chapter (but they didn't, really).

The only choice i wanted, i didn't get, it was not to sit on the throne, but that's my character, i'll see what happens with my Sorc who badly wants the seat ^^

 

But again, if Valkorion is alive and ruling at the start, why would he want anything to change, torment one person, and then try to come back on the throne in another vessel?

His vessel looked pretty ok to me, didn't seem to be consumed by power...

 

IMHO choices *do* matter in Chapter 9. The two companions for 9 are variable depending on whether you killed Arcann and Senya, to start (I personally am grateful I have the ability to keep Lana and Theron there). There are also two DS choices that influence the battle; one makes it easier and the other harder (whether you chose to keep Lord Dramath and whether you chose to kill Arcann).

In terms of Valkorion's vessel - he was getting older, so maybe he felt it was time for an upgrade. Or, alternatively, maybe his disappointment in his kids made him start shopping, or perhaps the Commander intrigued him enough to prompt a desire to move.

Valkorion does mention that the last person he "hollowed out" was also a warrior who had achieved a lot, and it could be that he gets some sick satisfaction from taking over someone who is at the top of their game.

IMHO choices *do* matter in Chapter 9. The two companions for 9 are variable depending on whether you killed Arcann and Senya, to start (I personally am grateful I have the ability to keep Lana and Theron there). There are also two DS choices that influence the battle; one makes it easier and the other harder (whether you chose to keep Lord Dramath and whether you chose to kill Arcann).

 

In terms of Valkorion's vessel - he was getting older, so maybe he felt it was time for an upgrade. Or, alternatively, maybe his disappointment in his kids made him start shopping, or perhaps the Commander intrigued him enough to prompt a desire to move.

 

Valkorion does mention that the last person he "hollowed out" was also a warrior who had achieved a lot, and it could be that he gets some sick satisfaction from taking over someone who is at the top of their game.

It was definitely a cool fight. It even showed Lana and Theron's vulnerability (mostly Theron) trying to keep the skytroopers away from the throne. The actual fight with Vaylin and Arcann wasn't that difficult. Arcann doesn't hit as hard. It is Vaylin that is the more powerful one in that fight. I played a sorcerer through it (the only one who killed Arcann) and I just loaded him up with dots and pretty much focused on Vaylin. In fact, I think Dramath killed Arcann for me .

However, I am still confused as to how Senya showed up. That didn't make sense to me at all.

It was definitely a cool fight. It even showed Lana and Theron's vulnerability (mostly Theron) trying to keep the skytroopers away from the throne. The actual fight with Vaylin and Arcann wasn't that difficult. Arcann doesn't hit as hard. It is Vaylin that is the more powerful one in that fight. I played a sorcerer through it (the only one who killed Arcann) and I just loaded him up with dots and pretty much focused on Vaylin. In fact, I think Dramath killed Arcann for me .

 

However, I am still confused as to how Senya showed up. That didn't make sense to me at all.

I agree. I really liked the cut scene of Lana and Theron standing together to fight while the Commander's battling Valkorion. And if you're romancing Lana, she gets the best line after you defeat Valkorion.

I did have to go through that fight in Chapter 9 more than once, even though I was able to kill Arcann in one shot in every battle and got Vaylin on my second try in Chapter 8. I kept getting thrown over the edge. In my case, though, the game was lagging so much that I wasn't really able to react to either Vaylin or Arcann as I wanted to. Once the game stopped going in slow motion, and I figured out I could stand behind the stairs and fight there, it went quickly. Dramath is a huge help, and Arcann really is dead easy to kill. I finally succeeded by killing him first and then going for Vaylin.

I didn't get how Senya magically appeared there, either. Her soul hadn't been absorbed by Valkorion, and all I could think was that she was somehow drawn there to help her children find their way once they were released by the holocron. Or something. it was a weird deus ex machina and she was the last person I expected to see there. IMHO it would have almost been more plausible for someone like Darth Marr to show up there to help you, since he was looking out for the Commander in an earlier chapter.

Valkorian wasn`t as powerful as he used to be after he entered you which allows you enough power over him where you can fight back. While he was still alive he couldn`t be defeated as easily as he was in your mind

yep...revan influenced the emperor to sign a peace treaty with the republic which shows it works both ways.

To me a lot of the story seemed like it was leading up to some sort of epic reveal or grand plan that just never showed up.

Valkorian obviously allowed the player to stab him in the back without much fight, i'm assuming as was said to eventually take over your body, but again...why? He seemed fine, controlling the whole empire that wrecked both dark and light. Ya Arcann wanted to take the throne but in his attempt he was severely outmatched by Valkorian. Vaylin didn't seem to have any interest in the throne until Arcann was gone and scorpio was like "oh here, i think you dropped this"

a lot of it seems clumsy and stringed together, like each chapter was written by someone else in a weird round robin and each person was like "well crap look what this guy wrote...now i gotta work off that!..?"