Posted this on reddit and wanted to post this here, as well.

 

Firstly. I wanted to say I think BW are amazing writers, Onslaught is amazing story, and the writers have craft amazing characters that I enjoy, Tau, Major Anri. It is because of that I write this. This is just criticism of the kill/reject option being presented on many characters, not here to bash anyone.

 

Quick note

Hear me out on why I dislike kill/reject option for characters (such as Savik, Vowrawn,ect) and I also dislike it when there is a kill/reject option on the companions for the class it originate from, meaning Jedi knight having a kill option on Kira, I dislike that, as I will explain why. However note that reject options that are available for classes that are NOT from where it originate from (Trooper gets a reject option on Kira) is fine,because I am not expecting them too see again on those other classes.

 

companions or characters. who are killed off don't get anything huge after they are killed off, even from there original class character. Sure in the last story update, Elera and Vector, got a conversation, Torian got a line on Mek-sha, which is awesome for BW to do, it's much more than Shadow of Revan, and Makeb. Acina and Vowrawn have some lines. But that's it

 

We are never going to see Savik, Vowrawn, or others council members, that have kill options, do anything really except for a few lines sometimes. They are never going to be a part of the main story again or do anything of interest.

 

I hope they don't give kill options for Tau, Anri, Rivix. Because I enjoy them, I want them to expand on them. Not to kill them off like were in Game of Thrones, and never see them do anything. I love these characters, it be a shame to just have them do almost nothing, but a few lines

 

 

 

 

I missed the times, when there were at least companion got quest chains, with a story arc. The problem is it feels like there not going to put money , into a quest line for a companion or character, if there is an option to kill or reject the companion or character. Because that character can die, he is alive for many, and dead for the rest, so it feels like there not going to make a 10 minute quest for a companions that has a kill option because of that.

 

So I hope that Jedi knights, at least, don't get the option to kill or reject Kira and scourge. Because that leaves the door open for the knights to have actual quest lines once in a while. I just talking about adding a quest chain for them, once or twice a year, it's better than one conversation.

 

t trying to say don't give kira or scourge kill option on the knight. because on the knight is where we care about Kira and scourge. I am fine with a reject option for other classes, because I am fine not seeing them again on classes that are not knights.

 

My idea for Kira Scourge, to save BW some time and resources, after the Satele story, you only get to see and have quests with, Kira, and scourge on a Knight. That would save BW money for one, if they only have to do dialogue for them, on one class, instead of all 8 classes/16 voice actors. I am also fine with not seeing them on other classes when the satele story ends.

 

This is just my opinion, but I am sure from what we have seen so far if Kira and Scourge, get a kill or reject option on a Jedi knight, and if Tau, Anri, get a kill option, then that's it, there not going to do anything important. It's sad were never going to see Vette do something with her sister, on a warrior or Ashara maybe trying make her own order, or Torian leading his clan, because of the problems of the kill/reject option

 

So all I want to suggest is to stop with these kill/reject options at least when it comes to the class they come from. . In my eyes they are not worth it, I dread to see it on Kira, Scourge on the knights, Anri or Zenith. I don't like Zenith or Scourge, but I was fine with them in class story, and I still don't want to see them gone, one conversation once in a while is not worth it.

 

For other ideas as well.

Companions quest chains. don't have happened all the time, maybe one companion quest chain for one companion, every story update. Also not every companion has to have the same amount of story, imo. I just talking once in a while, have us have a quest chain were we do something, with companions. Maybe help Vector with the kiliks, doing something is better than one conversation.

 

I believe if new character such as Tau, Arn, Anri, can have main story and comp quests as well (assuming they become companions, and companions can just have companion quest chains, in there own story, I believe people will be happy

 

Sorry for the long post

Edited July 8, 2020 by commanderwar

It's not just kill / reject. It's also based on choices you make for alignment. You can't get Quinn back no matter what you do if you side with the Republic. He's not available on the holo.

 

I don't mind companions running off or dying based on the choices I make, but since EA has given us the ability to retrieve certain companions, even after they die (re: Torian vs. Vette) then we should be able to retrieve all of them, including Quinn, Marr, etc.

It's not just kill / reject. It's also based on choices you make for alignment. You can't get Quinn back no matter what you do if you side with the Republic. He's not available on the holo.

 

 

Not sure if I am misunderstanding, but I am sure Quinn joins you even if you join the republic on Iokath,, I got him back on a republic Sith Warrior. It's elera you can't get back if you join Imps, or blew up Zakuaal. Though I do understand why she left and it makes sense, I don't want kira or Nadia, to give up being a jedi, to join the imps, that would make no sense. So when it comes to faction choices, they should do what ever makes sense for the character.

Edited July 7, 2020 by commanderwar

I would like more comp interactions like those you describe. Also, just because one person kills or banishes a comp on one toon, that doesn't mean they are going to do it on every toon they have. Most people do just the opposite, in fact, Most people have both ds and ls toons, and play them accordingly. They could have one toon who goes stupid dark and kills everyone they get the chance to, and then bring in their next guy and keep everyone around. It seems like BW is assuming that most people will kill or banish these comps on every toon they have, which is more than a little out of touch with their player base.

It's one thing to have a kill/reject option, it's a total different story if we are forced to kill a companion.

I swear if BW made me to choose between Kira and Scourge... it would be a low blow even lower than the Vette vs Torian "choice" since they are companions of the same class.

 

Not a fan of BW totally ignored class companion reactions, not even a written *Scourge seemed unusually unease around Revan* after the class stories. I like the bits of *Lana is amused* *Valkorion is irritated* in KOTxx. Those reactions are the one of the things I love the most about the game, but even those are gone after that.

I would like more comp interactions like those you describe. Also, just because one person kills or banishes a comp on one toon, that doesn't mean they are going to do it on every toon they have. Most people do just the opposite, in fact, Most people have both ds and ls toons, and play them accordingly. They could have one toon who goes stupid dark and kills everyone they get the chance to, and then bring in their next guy and keep everyone around. It seems like BW is assuming that most people will kill or banish these comps on every toon they have, which is more than a little out of touch with their player base.

 

I think it's not because there assuming that most players kill them. I think they don't add stuff for the original classes for comp with a kill option because they might not find it worth it. Even if 20 or percent had actually killed said comp, BW might assumed it's just not worth putting resources into because of that.

 

I just want BW to add stuff for the classes that companion came from, more than one conversation. There are 8 classes/16 voice actors, so to save resources BW should just do class exclusive comp quest lines like vanilla. Meaning only Troopers get something with Jorgan, maybe one his friends need help, and we need tog o Mek-sha or something. Hunter class get something with mako, ect.

 

I want something more than just one conversation, I want to do something with the comp do something for them, travel somewhere.

Edited July 8, 2020 by commanderwar

I understand 100%. I want some companions to be important to the story, just look at how much Lana shows up and that's possible because she's alive in everyone's story. I'm lucky that my favorite companion is Lana but I do understand how much it must suck if your favorite character turns into a bloody schrodinger's paradox because they decided to give the option to kill them of. Edited July 8, 2020 by Tintel

So much for #choicesmatter.

 

Given how the stories are already mutually inconsistent between playthroughs, even including the main plot, BW either has to deal with combinatoric complexity (it would be great if they could make vanilla-like storylines where you commit to some branch on each character and see the whole story from different perspectives but alas), write plots making no sense in some combinations of player choices or just write it off at some point, introduce something stupid which overrides everything before and start anew.

 

Companion-wise it's most likely the second option, with the best case scenario is writers making 2 dialogue options if certain companion is dead and 3 otherwise for tiny interactions and Lana doing all kinds of stuff she was never equipped for just in case the player has killed the NPC who actually could do it.

I disagree Republic Saboteur has to have an option to kill Tau and her Padawan, after all your ultimate goal is to eliminate the Jedi as a threat to the Sith Empire. Imperial saboteur has to have option to kill Major Anri or lead her into a trap where Republic forces taker her out.

 

More I think Saboteaur should have to deal with their class companions discovering their true alliance is to the enemy.

I disagree Republic Saboteur has to have an option to kill Tau and her Padawan, after all your ultimate goal is to eliminate the Jedi as a threat to the Sith Empire. Imperial saboteur has to have option to kill Major Anri or lead her into a trap where Republic forces taker her out.

 

More I think Saboteaur should have to deal with their class companions discovering their true alliance is to the enemy.

 

As Major Anri already gets caught in the Republic Questline, I do think there's a little more to all of this than we know so far.

Gnost Dural is alive and well after Ossus. In the Republic questline it seems like he was simply mortally wounded and then left in the library to die. That isn't very remarkable if you canonically chose to kill him as Imperial, because after stabbing him, you just leave. But if you take him alive, it's Anri that gets the order to take care of him.

After catching and imrisoning Anri on Mek-Sha (as Republican), she escapes, you get a letter that no one knows how this could possibly have happened.

 

Something is up with Major Anri and I don't think she is what she seems to be at first glance.

 

 

On the topic of the OP, I don't completely agree. I do think they went a bit over board with kill options during KotFE/ET, but what they need to do is simply make different companions do the same thing, depending on who you kill or not kill. Or make those added on scenes that you get nowadays, if a companion is an exclusive companion. Examples for that are the end of KotET, where if you killed Senya and Arcann Theron and Lana are in the scenes in their place. Or on Mek-Sha, when you are a Mandalorian and chose to let Torian die (for whatever reason.....^^) you still get the little talk about not needing the Darmanda if you have Shae Vizla with you. So the scene was written and implemented with exchangeable compansions in mind. That is fine with me.

If they would do it correctly then it wouldn't be a problem but we know that is almost impossible. They gave a kill option to quite a few companions early, Koth, etc and while that is good for those that want the option, it is not great for those that don't want that option as they are essentially wrote out of our story, even if you are romancing any of them. They should have had it where it was good for both sides but they didn't do that and I seriously doubt they can do it now.

You know suggestions like this will never happen. If one of them even reads the forum he will just laugh this off. Th best that he can say to you is something like "never stop dreaming". Take whatever is on the table. You may like it or not but they won't change anything.Once it's made, they only move forward.

Tau in Empire version of the story doesn't have a Padawan. She fights you with troopers only.

Major Anri escaped from the Republic according to a letter your republic character receives,. so she is still out there somewhere.

 

I don't know what's going to happen but what should is Republic Saboteur should find Major Anri in Republic space and help her to return to the Empire, betraying Tau and her Padawan in the process. Imperial Saboteur should betray Major Anri, joining Tau (who has no Padawan), at some point.

 

Imperial Saboteur actually has option to tell Tau on Mek-Sha "you have nothing to fear from me, Jedi". But still has to pretend to want her dead on Corellia. No similar option for Republic Saboteur with the Sith though.

I for one can't wait to murder some of the more annoying companions. Working through alerts on my alts and I've come to Dr. Lokin medicine woman. Dr. Lokin will be dying multiple times once the rakghoul event hits. Now if only I could get rid of Mako once and for all...

More I think Saboteaur should have to deal with their class companions discovering their true alliance is to the enemy.

I agree. One of my warriors sides with the republic and is a saboteur & I hope will get the option to completely switch sides & join the Jedi (rather than all this double agent crap - not very force-usery imo). Her class companion Pierce is in the her alliance as is Broonmark as she

Neither of these companions would join the republic and would probably team up in an attempt to take out my saboteur warrior (if that's a future story line I'm calling it that I win right now ). As for the other Empire classes, I don't see to many of the class companions having a problem with a switch. Andronikos maybe. Temple would probably just go back to the Chiss. Republic class companions will (or should) be much harder to deal with.

 

Gnost Dural is alive and well after Ossus. In the Republic questline it seems like he was simply mortally wounded and then left in the library to die. That isn't very remarkable if you canonically chose to kill him as Imperial, because after stabbing him, you just leave. But if you take him alive, it's Anri that gets the order to take care of him.

After catching and imrisoning Anri on Mek-Sha (as Republican), she escapes, you get a letter that no one knows how this could possibly have happened.

 

Something is up with Major Anri and I don't think she is what she seems to be at first glance.

POSSIBLY A BIT SPOILERY:

 

 

The Gnost Dural Ossus story really, really bothers me and I know from other forum posts I'm alone in thinking this. I cannot understand why, (when we have saboteur options) his outcome is not the same for both sides unless we are playing alternate universes or alternate realities. For the Empire he is either dead or imprisoned. For the republic he is injured and healed by Doc. I would have preferred a parallel story line here rather than completely different outcomes.

 

As for Anri; I'd prefer if she did not exist. I find her to be extremely annoying.

If they would do it correctly then it wouldn't be a problem but we know that is almost impossible. They gave a kill option to quite a few companions early, Koth, etc and while that is good for those that want the option, it is not great for those that don't want that option as they are essentially wrote out of our story, even if you are romancing any of them. They should have had it where it was good for both sides but they didn't do that and I seriously doubt they can do it now.

 

completely agree, if I knew kill options would just write them, for everyone then I really dislike, the kill option. Them gave in to the complainers, who wanted to kill those companions, they shouldn't have done it, because with a story there are going to be people you dislike, and hate, that all part of a story. I don't like Quinn, I think Quinn is boring, but I don't won't kill him or anything or any other character I dislike, because disliking characters is something you will see in a lot of stories.

 

I am afraid it might be too late for past characters and companions with kill options. The only thing I hope to do with this thread, is to maybe try to get BW to reverse course and to Not to give kill option on KIra, Anri, scourge, Tau ect.

Edited July 10, 2020 by commanderwar

I agree with the OP. Choice in how you want your own character to interact with others, including going so far as killing them, feels like a good thing - after all, how can choice in an RPG be bad? - but it burns too many bridges.

 

Once they've offered a kill option for a companion, that companion can no longer play a pivotal role in the story, keeping in mind that the devs no longer have the resources for multiple alternate storylines. One Rep story, one Imp story, both very static with at most a few L/D choices that change a couple lines and a bonus mission here and there is the most we can hope for anymore. Even in games with far more resources devoted to alternate storylines, like Mass Effect, you still have the issue of characters you could have killed off earlier at most making an appearance while the story progresses, but they're not a part of the story in a meaningful way.

 

If they no longer fit into a story made for everyone, you can be 99.9% sure they'll never be back except for maybe a voice line here and there if we're lucky. That's why I'm always sad to see an option to kill a companion I find interesting, even if they were controversial, because it means that even if I leave them alive their story arc is essentially over and they'll just be another in an ever-growing list of combat companions.

Edited July 11, 2020 by Aulus_Claudius

One of the worst parts about most modern fiction is the "protection status" of certain kinds of characters. It's not that the character's are necessarily bad, it's simply poor writing that you know nothing bad can happen to them that can effect them long term. It basically de-humanizes them, and as the person consuming fiction it's hard to care about them.

 

On that same level, as the OP noted, any character getting a kill/reject option by the player can't be very involved in future content, aside from a few throw away lines that have zero impact on the story.

 

A really good story based game would have modular story content, which fully involves a set of remaining characters from a pool of possible characters, and along with player choice, organically creates it's own, separate and unique version of the story. But that involves a lot of voice actors, development time, and more importantly (in the context of current Bioware) smart decision making during the creative process. So that's not going to happen for SWTOR.

 

The real solution to this, is that when you love certain characters in the game, you can make choices to protect them at the cost of other important things. That's called "Drama" by the way.

 

Instead, your character, along with all the npcs without a kill/reject option, are going to be forced through a story grinder with a set outcome. The plot armor my character has makes telling a good story difficult enough, but if I know certain characters also have that plot armor it's going to make it that much less entertaining.

 

I'm already operating under the assumption for certain individuals in the current story that they have plot armor, and those assumptions are based on the current political climate, the company EA-Bioware pretends to be, and the changes that were suddenly made to certain elements in the story that don't seem fleshed out or validated as something that organically happened. "This suddenly changed and that's just the way it is, so deal with it." I'd love to be incorrect on that, and have the story challenge my perception, but it's probably not going to happen.

 

Not that I want to even talk about it, or hijack this thread, but most people who played Onslaught found it pretty stale. I'm okay with people enjoying it, but I think the quality of it drove most returning people away. The Bioware hype was "Imps and Pubs are back in buisness, and that buiseness is WAR!" and the reality was nothing really close to that.

 

TLDR Good storytelling takes courage, and I honestly don't see any of that at Bioware right now, and handing out plot armor is the exact opposite of courage.

I agree with the OP. Choice in how you want your own character to interact with others, including going so far as killing them, feels like a good thing - after all, how can choice in an RPG be bad? - but it burns too many bridges.

 

Once they've offered a kill option for a companion, that companion can no longer play a pivotal role in the story, keeping in mind that the devs no longer have the resources for multiple alternate storylines. One Rep story, one Imp story, both very static with at most a few L/D choices that change a couple lines and a bonus mission here and there is the most we can hope for anymore. Even in games with far more resources devoted to alternate storylines, like Mass Effect, you still have the issue of characters you could have killed off earlier at most making an appearance while the story progresses, but they're not a part of the story in a meaningful way.

 

If they no longer fit into a story made for everyone, you can be 99.9% sure they'll never be back except for maybe a voice line here and there if we're lucky. That's why I'm always sad to see an option to kill a companion I find interesting, even if they were controversial, because it means that even if I leave them alive their story arc is essentially over and they'll just be another in an ever-growing list of combat companions.

 

I think and hope they made an exception with Theron. He and Lana don't play a big role in Onslaught, but they are there. If you romance Theron you get touching scenes, so they made an effort to include him despite anyone who plays the game wrong and kills him so he won't appear (after they fixed the glitch). If Satele Shan becomes the bad guy in whatever they're planning Theron has to be there if you played the game correctly.

Edited July 11, 2020 by Hadsil

IMO...

 

Since most every major companion / character has been killed off one way or another .. maybe they should just let us customize a really nice companion or two .. keep the droids (like HK and others) .. and just keep them with non-interacting parts..

 

That way the DS players can continue to kill off whatever they need/want or feel like .. and it doesn't mess with anyone's favorite companions / contacts.

 

I DO VERY MUCH agree that some of the stories just simply are not well thought out …

*** In one scenario … Senya is killed off … another one she is at the right hand helping at the conclusion of the fight with Valkorian

*** In another .. (as already mentioned) the Jedi master is either dead or captured … or to the Jedi side... he's just seriously wounded and is healed.

 

At some point in time there really does need to be a reconciliation of the stories. Were the ship yards at Corellia captured by the forces of the Empire ? Or successfully defended by the Republic.

 

In short: it's possible to have a proper reconciliation .. and yet allow the individual players to have their own "story" so to speak.

 

It should be noted that this is not intended to be an indictment against the development team .. so much as it is simply a request .. and hope that in the next few months we will see the seed plot begin to grow and explain a few things along the way.

 

I also rather suspect we will see at least one more short story (similar to "Hearts and Minds" that might help clear up a few matters.