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Pay 2 win crowd taking over


Mazikeen's Avatar


Mazikeen
12.06.2013 , 01:55 PM | #241
Quote: Originally Posted by rnmedic View Post
P2W is P2W no matter how small the advantage. You should not be able to use money to upgrade gear or stats. The fact that you have to use CC to transfer ship req to fleet req's and in turn upgrade to better ships is P2W.
Please explain to me 1) how one ship is substantially better than another of the same class and 2) how this complaint applies at all beyond the initial 10,000 Fleet Req anyway (since only Scout and Strikers ships have 'upgrades').

On top of this, the standard for 'P2W' has been, for many years, advantages given to players that pay cash that are unavailable to players who do not. Speeding through content, temporary boosts and cosmetics have been left out of that because while they allow players to pay to move faster, the players experience no more content by paying than any other.

Yet another thread of people failing to understand the concept of pay-to-win because they feel they deserve to have things handed to them. The same kind of people that get welfare and food stamps but refuse to actually look for work.
"Someone ever tries to kill you, you try to kill 'em right back!" - Malcolm Reynolds

Atamasama's Avatar


Atamasama
12.06.2013 , 01:57 PM | #242
Quote: Originally Posted by TheRampage View Post
Can somebody explain me requisition, awarded after each game? We are trying to figure it out, not calculating bonus etc. DOesnt make sense, not based on medals or anything
The only thing I can figure out is that I earn more when my side wins. Other than that, I don't seem to get much more if I'm at the top of the board or not.

One thing I've read (can't say that I've tested it myself) is that objectives give much more reqs than kills and assists. Blowing up turrets, helping capture satellites, and defending satellites is the way to get more points. If you're just flying around trying to find people to kill you won't get as many.

One thing I don't get yet is whether or not you are "defending" a satellite just by being near it, or if it counts the time you're engaged in combat near one. I think it's the former, which means that one strategy is to just camp at a satellite while you sip a beverage and wait for someone to show up.
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Andryah's Avatar


Andryah
12.06.2013 , 02:06 PM | #243
Quote: Originally Posted by TheOne View Post
Only the third day into SF and I'm seeing players with well over 10000 purple req, you can also use CC to convert ship req into purple req. Totally unfair and I thought we were told CC would not be allowed to purchase player skills, we were lied to? Is this only a temporary deal?
Yeah right.

Fact: Player skills count in GS
Fact: Teamwork counts GS
Fact: Time played, with good skills and teamwork = progress.
Fact: everything else.... cosmetics and personal preferences in ship style.

/Thread
When you find yourself surrounded by hostile Clowns... always go for the "Juggler" first.

JimG's Avatar


JimG
12.06.2013 , 02:17 PM | #244
Quote: Originally Posted by TheOne View Post
Only the third day into SF and I'm seeing players with well over 10000 purple req, you can also use CC to convert ship req into purple req. Totally unfair and I thought we were told CC would not be allowed to purchase player skills, we were lied to? Is this only a temporary deal?
Some people just don't know what pay 2 win means. I guess they figure they'll get more attention to their thread if they put "pay 2 win" in it. How is this purchasing "player skills"? If people could buy upgrades for their ship off the CM that are better than what could be obtained in-game, then THAT would be pay 2 win. Fleet req only allows you to purchase different models of ships and unlock different companions. You can't upgrade the ship itself with Fleet req.....you need Ship req to do that. We've been told a million times that the CM would be used for cosmetic options and not to purchase playable content. Purchasing a different looking scout ship is a cosmetic thing.

Atamasama's Avatar


Atamasama
12.06.2013 , 02:23 PM | #245
I've played games that really were pay to win. Those are games where there is content that you literally can not defeat without some kind of advantage that you need to pay cash for. Or where someone who paid for something can always defeat someone who didn't. TOR is not one of those games.
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MColes's Avatar


MColes
12.06.2013 , 02:34 PM | #246
Quote: Originally Posted by Wainamoinen View Post
This is absolutely wrong.

It costs the same amount, whether in ship reqs or fleet reqs, to buy anything.

You can convert ship reqs to fleet reqs - but you have to earn the ship reqs by fighting.

Fleet reqs do not buy upgrades cheaper than ship reqs.


Impossible. You wouldn't be able to earn enough ship reqs to convert. You can only convert 1-to-1.


If you've only earnt 4000 ship reqs, you haven't been playing non-stop for three days. I get around 700 per match. Also, did you not buy any first-step upgrades for 1k?

Converting ship reqs to fleet reqs allows you to buy upgrades on a ship other than the one you earnt them on - but you still need to earn those ship reqs.

TL;DR: Your complaint is invalid because you're mistaken in thinking that fleet reqs buy upgrades faster than ship reqs. I am not sure why you haven't realised this yet.
All this.
I have played about 100 matches, and won 80% of them. I had the Flashfire unlocked on day 1 and Pike unlocked day 2. Ontop of the winning req, you throw in the dailies and the weekly and I've got a **** ton of requisition because of -hard frakking work-. Just because you are terrible, don't assume the enemy Ace who wooped your *** is.

Also, 10000 req is -nothing- compared to the costs of the final tier upgrades. 10K gets you a SINGLE weapon upgrade at tier 4, not even tier 5. As an example on concussion missiles, that is the choice between "Missile range increased by 5%" or "Ammunition capacity increased by 3". On Quad Laser Cannons that's "Crit Hit chance increased by 8%" or "Blaster cost reduced by 10%". Nothing even remotely ground breaking, and any player would be FAR better served spending that 10K req on secondary upgrades first.

Sledgeweb's Avatar


Sledgeweb
12.06.2013 , 03:10 PM | #247
Quote: Originally Posted by JimG View Post
Some people just don't know what pay 2 win means. I guess they figure they'll get more attention to their thread if they put "pay 2 win" in it. How is this purchasing "player skills"? If people could buy upgrades for their ship off the CM that are better than what could be obtained in-game, then THAT would be pay 2 win. Fleet req only allows you to purchase different models of ships and unlock different companions. You can't upgrade the ship itself with Fleet req.....you need Ship req to do that. We've been told a million times that the CM would be used for cosmetic options and not to purchase playable content. Purchasing a different looking scout ship is a cosmetic thing.
This is wrong. You can purchase components with fleet req. Say you have 100 ship req on your scout, and 1,000 fleet req. If you go to purchase an upgrade on your scout that costs 1,000 ship req, you will get a window telling you that you don't have enough ship req, and it's going to take 900 from your fleet req. So, after the purchase, you will have 0 ship req on your scout, and 100 fleet req remaining.

I'm generally supportive of the game, and have been hesitant to call this pay2win, but here is my experience... I've never felt any desire to use my monthly cartel coins (long time subscriber here) for anything other that cosmetic gear, and to buy packs to sell on the GTN for credits. When I'm leveling an ALT, I also have bought the XP boosts. But I quickly drained my cartel coins once starfighter came out, and for the first time have been tempted to actually purchase cartel coins (but I'm resisting on principle). Why?

If I were to purchase the two cartel ships, I can get more requisition with the daily and weekly missions. The two cartel ships also earn a bonus on requisition because they are fully mastered. I can then use more CC's to convert ship req to fleet req and buy the other ships, which will increase my req further. Then, I can use CC's to convert all that ship req to fleet req to quickly upgrade one of my ships and move on to the next. It's maybe not pay2win, but it's very close to it. If it wasn't, I wouldn't find myself tempted to purchase CC's. But, I've already blown through my existing cartel coins to upgrade my scout as far as possible. How? I fly my other two ships to get their daily bonus requisition and the daily/weekly missions on them. I used my CC to convert to fleet req, and used the fleet req to purchase upgrades on my scout. I now have ship req on my other ships that I can't convert because I have 0 CC (for the first time in forever). If I bought more CC's, I could upgrade my scout further - which is a form of pay2win, or at lease paying to have an advantage.

Now, at first, I didn't think this was a big deal, and thought people were complaining over nothing. But, last night, on the imperial side on Shadowlands, I played about 10 matches and we lost every one. In every case, each person on the imperial side had the 3 free ships. I think one person had 4 ships. But, on the republic side, about 90%-95% of the team had every ship unlocked - which tells me they are using CC's, and probably have their ships highly upgraded. Now, I'm a pretty good pilot, so I usually ended up in the top 3 - but we lost every match, so I earned far less requisition. The republic side, which in this case just happened to be made up of a lot of cartel spenders, not only had an advantage with their ships being more upgraded, but they were also earning more requisition for winning - so this is very, very close to being pay2win. At least in the short term while everyone who is not spending CC's is catching up.

I'm not complaining. But, it is what it is. If it's not pay2win, it's unfortunately the closest the game has gotten to it. I kind of want to deny it is so, but the fact that I'm tempted to buy CC to get ahead in starfighter kind of slaps me in the face and tells me it's at least close to pay2win.

TheRampage's Avatar


TheRampage
12.06.2013 , 03:16 PM | #248
When I see opponents with a lot of ships I expect easy win. And it always like that. Best players at my server are focused on one ship.
Raphâel - Not Good Enough

Yorumi's Avatar


Yorumi
12.06.2013 , 03:20 PM | #249
Quote: Originally Posted by Sledgeweb View Post
Now, at first, I didn't think this was a big deal, and thought people were complaining over nothing. But, last night, on the imperial side on Shadowlands, I played about 10 matches and we lost every one. In every case, each person on the imperial side had the 3 free ships. I think one person had 4 ships. But, on the republic side, about 90%-95% of the team had every ship unlocked - which tells me they are using CC's, and probably have their ships highly upgraded.
Have you actually looked at what upgrades do? 5% more blaster damage, 10% more range, minor things like that. Sure it helps but unless the matches were extremely close you lost on skill not gear. You still have to hit people with your weapons and avoid their fire. Beyond that to actually get as much req as you think they had they would have to have playing times similar to what pro-gamers put in, which further suggest and absolutely astronomical difference in skill. Skill in this game far and away dwarfs the minor gains upgrades give.

Sledgeweb's Avatar


Sledgeweb
12.06.2013 , 03:23 PM | #250
Quote: Originally Posted by Yorumi View Post
Have you actually looked at what upgrades do? 5% more blaster damage, 10% more range, minor things like that. Sure it helps but unless the matches were extremely close you lost on skill not gear. You still have to hit people with your weapons and avoid their fire. Beyond that to actually get as much req as you think they had they would have to have playing times similar to what pro-gamers put in, which further suggest and absolutely astronomical difference in skill. Skill in this game far and away dwarfs the minor gains upgrades give.
Some of the matches were close... 1,000 to 800 or 900+. Some were blow outs. The teams weren't all the same. I think in the closer games, the gear might have made a difference. But, I do think there were a lot of newbs on my side as well in some fights. Personally, in some matches, I know I could have gotten another kill or two with a little more damage. The advantages with shield penetration and things like that can make a big difference.