Am I correct in that when people say "Scouts are overpowered" they're talking about the Sting/Flashfire? Because pretty much everything seems to be exclusive to that ship, and not the Blackbolt/Novadrive.

Personally I don't find either OP and I've used both...

Both my Imp pilots use the Blackbolt because I like the design better than the Sting or any other Imp fighter, and I use Mako as my co-pilot, which means I don't use Bypass either. That fighter performs just as well for me as any other I play on other toons.

How bad would scouts have it if they did not have a secondary weapon, or it was limited to sabotage probes?

I think scouts do most of their damage via primary blasters but for them to be able to use lock on missiles at all (particularly flashfires/stings, who can use cluster missiles) boosts their reliability to do damage a bit much.

I think scouts should be limited to primary weapons only. Scouts are supposed to be lighter frame, that's where they get their speed/maneuverability from, but when they're packing 20+missiles, where is their smaller frame coming from?

Removing secondary weapons would mean that while yes, a scout can fly circles around a strike fighter, a strike fighter can lock cluster missiles onto them and still do good damage. That stops being an advantage when the scout is also locking on cluster missiles.

How bad would scouts have it if they did not have a secondary weapon, or it was limited to sabotage probes?

 

I think scouts do most of their damage via primary blasters but for them to be able to use lock on missiles at all (particularly flashfires/stings, who can use cluster missiles) boosts their reliability to do damage a bit much.

 

I think scouts should be limited to primary weapons only. Scouts are supposed to be lighter frame, that's where they get their speed/maneuverability from, but when they're packing 20+missiles, where is their smaller frame coming from?

 

Removing secondary weapons would mean that while yes, a scout can fly circles around a strike fighter, a strike fighter can lock cluster missiles onto them and still do good damage. That stops being an advantage when the scout is also locking on cluster missiles.

LoL clusters, I have never met a good scout pilot that uses clusters extensively. Please clusters are a cheap trick that are nothing more than a psych weapon. I often run out of the things early in a match and fight on with no reduction in capacity without them.

However removing rocket pods would hurt the class hard.

Am I correct in that when people say "Scouts are overpowered" they're talking about the Sting/Flashfire? Because pretty much everything seems to be exclusive to that ship, and not the Blackbolt/Novadrive.

Really people just want blaster overcharge and distortion field nerfed, the class itself is perfectly fine. People have to realize that in GSF most of the balancing is going to be done around components not whole classes.

How bad would scouts have it if they did not have a secondary weapon, or it was limited to sabotage probes?

 

I think scouts do most of their damage via primary blasters but for them to be able to use lock on missiles at all (particularly flashfires/stings, who can use cluster missiles) boosts their reliability to do damage a bit much.

 

I think scouts should be limited to primary weapons only. Scouts are supposed to be lighter frame, that's where they get their speed/maneuverability from, but when they're packing 20+missiles, where is their smaller frame coming from?

 

Removing secondary weapons would mean that while yes, a scout can fly circles around a strike fighter, a strike fighter can lock cluster missiles onto them and still do good damage. That stops being an advantage when the scout is also locking on cluster missiles.

First off there's nothing wrong with the unguided rocket pods, maybe just maybe they should drop the load out of rocket pods by 25%, though I only say this because the large load out lets the scout better perform a role strikers are ment for, which is attacking well armored targets such as turrets. One of my guildmates does frequently fire himself dry on rockets though and he is an excellent pilot. so all in all they could leave the rocket capacity alone for the moment at least on the novadive/black bolt.

For the Sting/flashfire I'm with you. 20+ cluster missiles is a disturbingly big loadout. If you'll allow me to don my Role Playing hat for a moment. The the scout achieves it's maneuverability exclusively though it's power to weight ratio this is star wars lore and to what can be accepted good physics(yes I know physics and star wars don't meet). Additionally the sting/flashfire represent the A-Wing and the Tie interceptor though really they represent the A-wing as the Tie interceptor was unshielded and carried no missiles. The A-wing had very limited ammo capacity and a only token shields. Simply said if you look at the ships they could never fit that loadout in those hulls, and even if you talk about external racking the weight ratio would be skunked.

Ok RP hat off. A limited load of cluster missiles would go a long way to balancing the interceptor scouts, the burst lasers still need blunting too, It would drastically change the play of the pilots if they need to suddenly use their missiles sparingly.

Truth be told halving(approximately) the missile/rocket loadout on the scouts would probably solve the issue that scouts and strike fighters don't have clear lines between what their roles are.

LoL clusters, I have never met a good scout pilot that uses clusters extensively. Please clusters are a cheap trick that are nothing more than a psych weapon. I often run out of the things early in a match and fight on with no reduction in capacity without them.

 

However removing rocket pods would hurt the class hard.

rocket pods agreed they need to stay, though maybe a smaller capacity at most 25% reduction though.

Cluster missiles are no so benign they are vital to the uber burst 2 second kill scouts are doing. They really do make a difference.

rocket pods agreed they need to stay, though maybe a smaller capacity at most 25% reduction though.

 

Cluster missiles are no so benign they are vital to the uber burst 2 second kill scouts are doing. They really do make a difference.

So basically you have a problem with the burst and therefore you want overcharge and burst lasers nerfed. You can't burst people with stuff that sets all sorts of alarms off in their cockpit.

That's what you need no need to write entire threads about the whole freaking class and on top of that bring the poor innocent Novadrives into it aswell.

So basically you have a problem with the burst and therefore you want overcharge and burst lasers nerfed. You can't burst people with stuff that sets all sorts of alarms off in their cockpit.

Honestly I"m a striker pilot I know the burst exists i know what it looks like, the best pilots use cluster missiles as part of it, this I have seen many times. But I don't know the exact build that makes this burst, all I know is Burst lasers are part of it. I hear overcharge lasers and I hear some bypass talk too. seriously if you or anybody would explain step by step what they are doing I'd appreciate it. I only argue mechanics and what's good for the game, I need a scout pilot to tell me what exactly needs to change. Problem is most pilots will stick their heals in the mud to fight a nerf.

That's what you need no need to write entire threads about the whole freaking class and on top of that bring the poor innocent Novadrives into it as well.

So this is a few weeks old this thread is, So old that there were few to none Stings/flashfires in Que as nobody sayve a select few had the fleet req by that point. I had a misguided nerf-on for the black bolt at that time I was young and stupid(gameplay wise) no the Nova dive isn't OP or if it is is buy a very small percentage, The novadive is "easymode" but not OP.

I changed my tone as my L2P went up but more so as discussion in this thread we managed to better define what role the scouts and strikers were ment to be. The novas are still pushing into the strikers role too much and a reduced loadout on both scout would fix that nicely.

It was a bit of serendipity that the flashfire came around with it's own balance issues that got this thread going again and is what you see now. but do look at the start date on the thread it was before flashfire got purchased on masse.

First off there's nothing wrong with the unguided rocket pods, maybe just maybe they should drop the load out of rocket pods by 25%, though I only say this because the large load out lets the scout better perform a role strikers are ment for, which is attacking well armored targets such as turrets. One of my guildmates does frequently fire himself dry on rockets though and he is an excellent pilot. so all in all they could leave the rocket capacity alone for the moment at least on the novadive/black bolt.

 

For the Sting/flashfire I'm with you. 20+ cluster missiles is a disturbingly big loadout. If you'll allow me to don my Role Playing hat for a moment. The the scout achieves it's maneuverability exclusively though it's power to weight ratio this is star wars lore and to what can be accepted good physics(yes I know physics and star wars don't meet). Additionally the sting/flashfire represent the A-Wing and the Tie interceptor though really they represent the A-wing as the Tie interceptor was unshielded and carried no missiles. The A-wing had very limited ammo capacity and a only token shields. Simply said if you look at the ships they could never fit that loadout in those hulls, and even if you talk about external racking the weight ratio would be skunked.

 

Ok RP hat off. A limited load of cluster missiles would go a long way to balancing the interceptor scouts, the burst lasers still need blunting too, It would drastically change the play of the pilots if they need to suddenly use their missiles sparingly.

 

Truth be told halving(approximately) the missile/rocket loadout on the scouts would probably solve the issue that scouts and strike fighters don't have clear lines between what their roles are.

The role of a Scout is clear. It's to get in and out quick, that's why the burst damage is there. They don't have the sustained DPS of a Striker. Once they blow their CD's they are vulnerable for several minutes.

The whole point of a Scout is to race in and cap satellites, with the support and punch of a Striker. The Scout and Striker help each other out this way. The Striker is a more rounded fighter and has much greater durability and sustained DPS compared to the Scout.

Scouts are objective fighters, meant to distract, lure fighters, and cap satellites. Strikers are meant to do the heavy sustained DPS and much of the fighter killing. Any Scout looking to top kill charts is not fulfilling their role. Scouts should be topping turret kills and objective numbers.

The role of a Scout is clear. It's to get in and out quick, that's why the burst damage is there. They don't have the sustained DPS of a Striker. Once they blow their CD's they are vulnerable for several minutes.

 

The whole point of a Scout is to race in and cap satellites, with the support and punch of a Striker. The Scout and Striker help each other out this way. The Striker is a more rounded fighter and has much greater durability and sustained DPS compared to the Scout.

 

Scouts are objective fighters, meant to distract, lure fighters, and cap satellites. Strikers are meant to do the heavy sustained DPS and much of the fighter killing. Any Scout looking to top kill charts is not fulfilling their role. Scouts should be topping turret kills and objective numbers.

All true this is a perfect description of the role.......................of the NoveDive. Bioware defines the Strikers as a turret killer however

The flashfire seem to be best defined as the Space Superiority fighter. In other terms the fighter that kills fighters, please note the GS isn't really a fighter no is the bomber. Hence the Flashfire is focus built to kill:

- Stings

- Black Bolts

- Rycers

- Quells

Strikers out break and out turn Scouts meaning they will win the long fight(dogfight). understand that out turn is not the same as out maneuver. This is why a striker out flies scout in confined spaces, See: scouts constantly crashing into everything.

Well, if BioWare has designated the Striker at the turret killer, then they've done a poor job of it.

No, in fact the Scouts are turret killers (and objective based fighters in general), whether it be the NovaDove or the Flashfire, the only slight difference is the Flashfire sacrifices the engine capacity of the Nova for some offensive gain.

Honestly, Strikers aren't anywhere near as good turret killers as the Scouts. The Rocket Pods of the Scout are SPECIFICALLY designed to take out turrets, as they're quick but have a really low accuracy on anything that moves.

People's issue here is getting taken out by Scouts using them on stationary fighter targets. Once fighters start moving it takes much longer for a Scout to get a kill on a ship, more so if they're CD's are on cool down. This is the way to counter offensive Scouts.

First off there's nothing wrong with the unguided rocket pods, maybe just maybe they should drop the load out of rocket pods by 25%, though I only say this because the large load out lets the scout better perform a role strikers are ment for, which is attacking well armored targets such as turrets. One of my guildmates does frequently fire himself dry on rockets though and he is an excellent pilot. so all in all they could leave the rocket capacity alone for the moment at least on the novadive/black bolt.

The entire purpose of the Rocket Pods are to be turret killers for the Scout, which in being objective based fighters, is the primary role of the Scout. The Rocket Pods work great on stationary targets, but have a super low accuracy on anything that moves, which is why your friend runs dry hunting ships with those. That is not the intended purpose of the Rocket Pod.

The issue here lies in the fact that Rocket Pods also make wonderful burst DPS when combined with blaster offensive CD's when used on stationary ships. The best defence against these types of Scouts is to be mobile. Once this happens, people will note that a Rocket Pod equipped Scout will take a while to down another ship, unless it is flying in a straight line, or trying to play chicken with a Scout that just popped their CD's.

which is why your friend runs dry hunting ships with those. That is not the intended purpose of the Rocket Pod.

.

an assumption. Last match I was with him and he ran dry we had the pubs on the ropes and he wasn't dying enough to get a reload, I don't know if he uses them ship to ship or not.

First of all, you've been talking about all scouts, not just the Flashfire/Sting. And for the record, the Flashfire is no more OP than the NovaDive is. Again, Scouts have a role.

If the OP does not mind me stepping in to help defend him... If you read the entire thread you'll see that fairly early on in the theorycrafting process we noticed the Flashfire has a lot of powerful options that are unavailable to the Novadive. The OP has since amended his thesis to suggest that Flashfires alone are overpowered.

If you believe the two scouts are equally powerful, then can you explain what powerful components the Novadive has to compete with the Flashfire's Burst Cannons, Quad Lasers, Cluster Missiles, Blaster Overcharge, and shield reactor?

The role of a Scout is clear. It's to get in and out quick, that's why the burst damage is there. They don't have the sustained DPS of a Striker. Once they blow their CD's they are vulnerable for several minutes.

Several minutes? Blaster overcharge lasts 12 seconds with a 40 second cooldown. Not only can it be used twice in the same minute, but it has a minimum uptime of 30%, and realistically will be significantly higher than that. Distortion Field can also be used several times per minute, and that cooldown provides damn near invulnerability for 6 seconds.

And even if we ignore blaster overcharge and distortion field for a second, in what way to strikers have better sustained damage? They can switch weapons, but with any given weapon they'll only do about as well as the Flashfire without its cooldowns.

The whole point of a Scout is to race in and cap satellites, with the support and punch of a Striker. The Scout and Striker help each other out this way. The Striker is a more rounded fighter and has much greater durability and sustained DPS compared to the Scout.

I agree that it *should* be this way, but it clearly isn't working this way right now. If you are going to convince us that the strikers have more "punch" or "sustained dps," you're going to have to explain which components that strikers have to provide these benefits, because I have yet to see them.

The problem with a strike depends on the strike right now.

If its the missle boat, its problems are directly related to the problems with missiles. Engine Maneuvers are on a 10 second CD generally last around 3 seconds while missile reload times (for everything save for cluster missiles which the flash fire has access to) are generally greater then 5 seconds meaning that a pilot using their engines properly can indefinitely dodge missile locks. The only saving grace for the Missile Boats is by switching missile types they can bypass the reload time and likely get a shot off (assuming they don't fire the Proton Torp as their second missile without the speed upgrade since most ships can out run the Torp long enough for the evasion ability to come off CD again)

If its the Starting Strike the problem is the delayed fire when switching weapons. That half second-full second delay normally means you miss out on at least 2-3 shots that you would have fired and would have hit with. For these reasons its hard to justify the weapon switch, unless you have 1 primary weapon you use all the time and a second you have for extremely situation times, such as Heavy lasers set up for armor piercing only for turret busting, or Ion cannons for shield busting only for that occasion when you sneak up on a gunship. Trying to swap weapons mid fighter fight usually just gives the target a second longer to get away.

If they fixed these things I am sure we would actually get complaints that Strike classes are OP.

The fact is both Scouts (Flashfire) and Gunships get posts about them being OP. Strikes and Nova dives never do so one or the other is out of balance. Either Gunships and Flashfires are to powerful (blaster Overcharge+ distortion field with access to burst cannons, quad cannons and cluster missiles for flash fire, Slug Railgun+ Bypass for Gunships). Or Strikes and Nova's are not powerful enough as they lack any kind of real bite that makes more then a very small minority ever truly worry about them.

OP = original poster isn't that Tumblr speak? kinda confusing when OP = Overpowered in the thread title.

anywho Strikers do has sustained dps this is true for perhaps no other reason then they defiantly don't have burst Dps. One might say they are actually Surge DPS like when either missiles or heavy cannons hit.

You might be thinking that scouts weapons power pool is almost as good as striker thus scouts have sustained dps. But it's more a mechanic of how scouts fly, their time on target(target in crosshairs) is very brief which is where the Burst concept comes from. Which is why you really don't wan to let a scout stay on your tail for long.

The problem with a strike depends on the strike right now.

 

If its the missle boat, its problems are directly related to the problems with missiles. Engine Maneuvers are on a 10 second CD generally last around 3 seconds while missile reload times (for everything save for cluster missiles which the flash fire has access to) are generally greater then 5 seconds meaning that a pilot using their engines properly can indefinitely dodge missile locks. The only saving grace for the Missile Boats is by switching missile types they can bypass the reload time and likely get a shot off (assuming they don't fire the Proton Torp as their second missile without the speed upgrade since most ships can out run the Torp long enough for the evasion ability to come off CD again)

 

If its the Starting Strike the problem is the delayed fire when switching weapons. That half second-full second delay normally means you miss out on at least 2-3 shots that you would have fired and would have hit with. For these reasons its hard to justify the weapon switch, unless you have 1 primary weapon you use all the time and a second you have for extremely situation times, such as Heavy lasers set up for armor piercing only for turret busting, or Ion cannons for shield busting only for that occasion when you sneak up on a gunship. Trying to swap weapons mid fighter fight usually just gives the target a second longer to get away.

 

If they fixed these things I am sure we would actually get complaints that Strike classes are OP.

 

 

The fact is both Scouts (Flashfire) and Gunships get posts about them being OP. Strikes and Nova dives never do so one or the other is out of balance. Either Gunships and Flashfires are to powerful (blaster Overcharge+ distortion field with access to burst cannons, quad cannons and cluster missiles for flash fire, Slug Railgun+ Bypass for Gunships). Or Strikes and Nova's are not powerful enough as they lack any kind of real bite that makes more then a very small minority ever truly worry about them.

blaster swap on the Rycer is really more a part of it being a multirole fighter, it can be used in comebat like ion swap but the CD on the swap is not that big a deal for most players. I still believe GS are not OP they just make people uncomfortable, the way a sniper should.

blaster swap on the Rycer is really more a part of it being a multirole fighter, it can be used in comebat like ion swap but the CD on the swap is not that big a deal for most players. I still believe GS are not OP they just make people uncomfortable, the way a sniper should.

Honestly there isn't much of a point to use the Ion cannons on anything other then a gunship in combat. Scouts don't have large enough shields firing 1 or 2 shots will bring the shields down with the ions and then you have to wait 1 second to swap weapons and you have already alerted the scout to your presence. You are better served using anything else and continually firing as that 1 extra second in Space combat is all the time it takes to kill.

Against enemy strikes and Gunships their might be an argument for it, but honestly I feel with their short range you would just be better suited pounding through both shields and hull with just Quads or Heavies rather then wasting 1 second on a weapon swap. All-in-all that "in-combat" weapon swap seems to give a LONGER time to kill to the enemy rather then the preferred shorter one.

Its only the Star guard that suffers from this as all others that swap weapons its highly beneficial for them. The missile boat bypassing reload times and with the way weapons charging works on the gunships even there it would be beneficial when in the right hands (if only their was a real use to using anything other then Railgun)

If you believe the two scouts are equally powerful, then can you explain what powerful components the Novadive has to compete with the Flashfire's Burst Cannons, Quad Lasers, Cluster Missiles, Blaster Overcharge, and shield reactor?

Here's the thing. Blaster Overcharge is powerful yes, but it's only effective on stationary targets or fighters that are moving in a straight line. Anything that is moving makes a hard target for the Scout. Once the Scout has their CD's on cool down, they're as good as naked out there. That the advantage and players have to counter that effectively. If they want to play chicken with a Scout popping their CD's, they are gonna be gunned down. Don't make yourself easy prey for a Scout.

Second, Cluster missiles are not part of any burst mechanic on a Scout, they have a locking time and are ineffective if anything is moving around at any rate, and they don't work well with said CD's that some are having issues with. What gives the Scout burst are their Rocket Pods combined with their offensive blaster CD's which again only really work well on stationary targets, or fighters moving in a straight line. Again, don't make yourself easy prey for a Scout. It's not all that complicated.

The cluster missiles also work much better on Striker as they're more of a range fighter and have to play vectors and angles well. Don't try to out race a Scout, or fly in a straight line with one, that is playing to their strengths. Come in on them at angles and use your locking missiles. Strikers are designed to have more punch and have more durability; use this strength. If you are playing a Striker, don't try to out-scout the Scout. Play to the SF strengths.

If you believe the two scouts are equally powerful, then can you explain what powerful components the Novadive has to compete with the Flashfire's Burst Cannons, Quad Lasers, Cluster Missiles, Blaster Overcharge, and shield reactor?

Novadive has a sensor slot. Which means it can make itself invisible to gunships beyond 6km range. It does not have cluster missiles, but you don't want those when hunting gunships as the lockon beeping alerts your prey, you want to use rocket pods together with light lasers to blow it out of the sky without warning. In short, novadive is the superior gunship hunter of the two.

Distortion Field can also be used several times per minute, and that cooldown provides damn near invulnerability for 6 seconds.

It comes at a price however. I love fighting ships with distortion fields, because they die in two hits from my burst cannon. The active is excellent when two ships make a head-to-head run at each other guns blazing. But in a normal satellite skirmish where you are under fire for minutes? 6 seconds of invulnerability, then respawn.

And even if we ignore blaster overcharge and distortion field for a second, in what way to strikers have better sustained damage? They can switch weapons, but with any given weapon they'll only do about as well as the Flashfire without its cooldowns.

Here i agree with you - strikes are crap across the board, IMHO. They need something special that would give them a niche. For instance an ability to ignore armor piercing in some form would be a start.

Novadive has a sensor slot. Which means it can make itself invisible to gunships beyond 6km range. It does not have cluster missiles, but you don't want those when hunting gunships as the lockon beeping alerts your prey, you want to use rocket pods together with light lasers to blow it out of the sky without warning. In short, novadive is the superior gunship hunter of the two.

NovaDives also have a 5% per second for several seconds engine regen mechanic which the Flashfires don't have. This engine regen makes them the best objective fighters in the game, bar none, for initial launch and capping objectives. They don't have have blaster overcharge, but this is really a non issue for them, if one plays the Scout to their intended role.

NovaDives also have a 5% per second for several seconds engine regen mechanic which the Flashfires don't have. This engine regen makes them the best objective fighters in the game, bar none, for initial launch and capping objectives. They don't have have blaster overcharge, but this is really a non issue for them, if one plays the Scout to their intended role.

Flashfire can use booster recharge as well. I use it on both my scouts, as blaster overcharge isn't really needed to get me kills.

My impression: The Blackbolt/Novadrive is fine. It's very effective at what it does, but has some pretty glaring weaknesses (no real "knockout" missiles practical for dogfights, lack of heavy blasters, lack of shields and armour) excellent objective fighters, and good for dogfights but you have trouble actually scratching stuff, and one or two shots will kill you.

Now, the Sting/Flashfire is more problematic, largely because it seems so much better than the Rycer/Star Guard in most respects. Yes, it's not as durable, but it has anti-figther missiles as well as anti-turrent rockets, better durability than the Blackbolt, and so forth.

The rycer has more versatility (three types of damaging missiles, two types of blasters, including ions) I agree that the ion cannon is probably a bit impractical (how about giving it a slight range increase? Make "open up with ions, then switch to blasters when you close" a bit more viable)

Scouts are obviously designed to be able to take out turrets: Both Rocket Pods and Thermite Torps are pretty clearly set up as "turret killers".

Strikers are designed to have more punch

This is your problem. You make this claim in all your posts, but never support it. In what way do strikers have more "punch" or "sustained dps" in any way?

The strikers have ion cannons, heavy laser cannons, proton torpedoes, and a couple of other things that don't really seem to be particularly effective compared to the advantages of the Flashfire.

If you have a strike fighter that out "punches" the Flashfires on your server, please tell us what your build is for this ship.

Novadive has a sensor slot. Which means it can make itself invisible to gunships beyond 6km range. It does not have cluster missiles, but you don't want those when hunting gunships as the lockon beeping alerts your prey, you want to use rocket pods together with light lasers to blow it out of the sky without warning. In short, novadive is the superior gunship hunter of the two.

I have mentioned the sensor package in previous posts, and the sensor upgrade is indeed a nice Novadive exclusive upgrade (at lease between the 2 scouts). Unfortunately, dampening only works at distances beyond 15,000 meters. This does allows you to sneak up on objectives and gunships, but if they're wary they'll still see you as soon as you cross the 15,000 meter threshold.

You mention using rocket pods with light lasers to kill a gunship before it realizes it's been made. This is indeed a good strategy, but one that is better realized with a Flashfire. Burst cannons have more burst damage than light lasers, and Flashfires can equip rocket pods too if they choose. Blaster overcharge is the third and final ingredient in the gunship assassin's cookbook, but it is Flashfire only.

Essentially the question is are you willing to give up burst cannons and blaster overcharge in order to receive the sensor package? The answer for most gunship hunters is "no."

The problem with the sensor upgrade is it seems to be the *only* advantage that the Novadive has over the Flashfire.