Don't know if something like this has appeared before. I thought it would be useful for players to have a way of gauging their level of playing ability. Disagreements and additions are welcome.

 

All roles

You are bad if:

You are not geared correctly, e.g. you're a tank but you don't have a shield generator. or you're a sentinel wearing smuggler gear.

 

You are oblivious to your surroundings while playing, i.e. you play with tunnel vision.

 

You ignore instructions and don't follow proper loot etiquette.

 

You don't use key binds.

 

You are good if:

You avoid most or all unnecessary damage in any fight while remaining maximally effective.

 

You are attentive to boss mechanics and work to improve each time you raid.

 

You mix and match mods/enhancements to optimize relevant stats.

 

Tanks

You are a bad tank if:

You do not have "Target of Target" enabled in your UI.

 

You fail to hold aggro for one or more mobs.

Test case: Kaon Under Siege

 

You fail to hold a boss's aggro throughout most or all of the fight.

 

You are a good tank if:

You can place an enemy exactly where they are supposed to be.

Test case: Soa

 

You can area taunt with precision.

 

You coordinate tank switches efficiently with your other tank.

Test case: Fabricator, Zorn & Toth, Ciphas/Heirad/Kel'sara

 

You use your defensive cooldowns effectively

 

DPS

You are a bad dps if:

You are using your abilities either randomly or arbitrarily.

 

You are not attacking enemies in the correct order (weakest to strongest).

 

You are a good dps if:

You employ a maximally effective rotation and can do it while paying attention to what's going on in the fight.

 

You use your aggro dumps effectively so that you can apply maximal damage while minimizing threat.

 

You can efficiently kill adds during a boss fight.

Test case: Gharj, Foreman Crusher, Karraga, Writing Horror, Terror from Beyond

 

You time your offensive cooldowns so that they are in use during a boss's vulnerable moments.

Test case: Soa, Warlord Kephess, Kephess the Undying

 

Heals

You are a bad healer if:

Assuming a group that is competent and adequately geared, you run out of energy/ammo/force before the end of a boss fight.

 

You don't heal situationally, i.e. you use the same heals regardless of HP level.

 

You are a good healer if:

You consistently remove cleansable debuffs and DoTs.

Test case: LR-5, Zorn & Toth, Writhing Horror

 

You can heal through major damage spikes to a single individual.

Test case: Foreman Crusher, Putrid Shacklaw

 

You can heal through major raid-wide damage.

Test case: Annihilation Droid XRR-3, Ciphas/Heirad/Kel'Sara (HM), Kephess the Undying (burn phase),

Think you should add to the bad all roles : your lvl 50 and you still dont know what all your class can do.

 

ran into a player like this a few days ago in a HM FP

Edited November 17, 2012 by DarthObelisk
grammar changes

I'd have to disagree with a couple of points.

 

The best healer I know is a clicker. I was astonished when I learned that, explains why she's having trouble learning to tank though.

 

I'd also put "raid awareness" as more important for DPS than having a maximal rotation. That is to say, I'd rather have a DPS that pays attention than one that puts out max DPS.

 

In terms of Kaon, I'm not sure where you're talking about a "group aggro" test for tanks. The final boss ignores threat mechanics and the trash (elites) has special mechanics. The turret is much easier with the tank on it than a DPS, so again, how is this a test compared to any other FP? Personally I find the first pull of Red Reaper to be the hardest one to hold aggro and just generally to survive, in any role.

How about you are bad if you have preconceived ideas about people and what they can or cannot do.

 

I dont use keybinds and am a mouseclicker, people dont know Im a mouseclicker unless I tell them so and people seem pretty keen for me to to come on all these HM and NM operations.

You may be a clicker, you may have progressed the the pinnacle of your abilities as a clicker. The fact remains though, and it's a physical fact, using binds improves a) your situational awareness b) ability to move c) reaction times.

 

A) Because you're having to track your mouse with your eyes in order to click the correct location. Taking away time that could be used to scan your surroundings, monitor your buffs/procs/debuffs.

 

B) The most effective movement method is using mouse to rotate your character or point of view. You can turn, change direction etc, much faster with the use of a mouse. This is most important with melee and tanking roles, and a clicker in these situations can usually be spotted as you watch them slowly pan around to chase a target that has run behind them. Situations like Kephess HM+ when he pulls the entire raid to him and then drops the large purple circle is a particular case where someone who's relying on keyboard turning will have a distinct disadvantage, even for a ranged role.

 

C) Most clearly evident in a target swap situation to rapidly interrupt a target you're not on. You have 2 choices as a clicker, target the caster with your mouse and then click your interrupt, or tab target and then click interrupt. Neither is going to reliably get your action completed in as short a time as the key bind user. I could think of several situations where there are benefits for those using binds.

 

All these things on their own are small. Add them together and you've got someone who's at a fairly significant disadvantage. I started as a clicker in Everquest over 10 years ago, I had been clicking for 3 years by the time I was finally motivated to make the switch. It's hard, muscle memory takes time to develop, skills and patterns take a while to take shape, but trust me, if you get binding down, you will be much happier with your performance.

if you need to keybind to play this game you are bad, you know how many post this forum has saying this game is very easy.If you think your way to play this game is better, you are bad

I know alot of players that dont keybind their abilities(healers,tanks,dps) and rock on PVE and PVP, they and their guilds 1shot every boss on EC HM and TFB HM, 0 wipes and 0 deads.

 

killing order of mobs? only if you are undergear, must ppl buy and gear up BH gear, so they are overgear for much everthing in the game.

 

know your rotation? most hard fight in this game you cant stay still to do 1 full rotation, you have to adapt, folow the boss(Ex. Kephess on TFB), get out of AOE,boss knockback etc.Only on a ops dummy you can just sit there and pew pew.

 

Tanks aggro? i love when a DPS steal aggro from my tank, in that moment i aggro back, at that moment my aggro sky- rockets and DPS use their de-aggro abilitie after, from that point if the boss dont have some sort of aggro reset i can just stand there and use my basic attack because is no way possible for DPS steal aggro again after.

 

My point- you are bad if you think you are always right and the others wrong, even if the others can do what you do but different. you are good if you can adapt in any circumstances during a combat and come out a winner

Edited November 17, 2012 by ErosGyne

You may be a clicker, you may have progressed the the pinnacle of your abilities as a clicker. The fact remains though, and it's a physical fact, using binds improves a) your situational awareness b) ability to move c) reaction times.

 

You know its a PHYSICAL fact that not everyone can PHYSICALLY use multiple keys for a myriad of physical reasons? For example MS? I also have no need to track my mouse with my eyes due to hyper peripheral vision, another fun physical fact, I see everything on the screen at all times and even around it.

 

Whats funny is my wife who also plays the game and is a binder lambasts me and claims I have the advantage of being a clicker as can use all my abilities at will without the need of a third hand. Being a clicker also doesnt prevent me from mouse turning.

 

I know binding is easier, I know binding has better performance potential all things being equal but I also know not everyone is able to use keybinds and its not down to a lack of skill, its often down to physical restrictions and I also know from my own performance and the few other clickers that I know that it doesnt hold us back.

 

Also given the rarity of us mouseclickers I would daresay there is a MUCH bigger percentage of sucky binder players out there than clickers.

 

Oh and I also do just fine in PvP where there situational awareness needs to be heightened and things are not nearly so formulaic.

 

*disclaimer, its 5am here and its more than possible Im suffering from the stayed up way, way, way too late grumps so if I sound curt my apologies*

Edited November 17, 2012 by Slurmez

I overall agree with the OP.

 

I will disagree with some of the generalized bullet points of what makes a player "bad". Some game aspects need to be learned through experience, trial & error, and the willingness to listen to other more experienced player's advice.

Overrall agreed, but it's not quite as black & white..

 

There are also some points to be made like a tank holding aggro.. It can be pretty tough for even the most skilled tank to hold aggro with a Tionese mainhand against maybe a sniper with a campaign mainhand. So that only goes for tank/dps that are on approx the same gear level.

 

Plus I would make the argument that a good tank also doesn't try to tank EVERYTHING in a flashpoint.. What they do is try to control the outcome by tanking the most dangerous stuff while keeping an eye on the teams health taunting off people if they are in trouble..

 

Another good tank quality is knowing pulls, and knowing what can be cc'd to what effect. Same thing goes for all - DON'T BREAK THE DARN CC's ..

 

Oh, and Kaon as a tank test? That made me lol a little.. With all the dump mechanics and random hitting of people in that that's like the worst tank test you can pick.. It's purely a test of picking the right kill order and living through each pull..

if you need to keybind to play this game you are bad, you know how many post this forum has saying this game is very easy.If you think your way to play this game is better, you are bad

I know alot of players that dont keybind their abilities(healers,tanks,dps) and rock on PVE and PVP, they and their guilds 1shot every boss on EC HM and TFB HM, 0 wipes and 0 deads.

 

You obviously haven't been to NiM EC yet. That op separates the men from the boys.

You obviously haven't been to NiM EC yet. That op separates the men from the boys.

 

no challenge currently in game requires you to keybind. Of course it makes one's job easier in most situations. I have found a healthy mix with keybinding my most used abilities and mouse clicking my situational abilities. Works just fine.

for me the most important thing for any class, but especially tanks i suppose, is thinking ahaed. Be ready for the unexpected pat. be ready for the dps who doesn´t know better to be knocked back into a group and adjust. As healer or dps, use cc on incoming mobs and make sure to mark your cc and announce your cc marker when you enter an instance.

 

For a healer sometimes the best tactic is to let the tunnelvision dps die. If the tank are busy picking up groups of mobs and a dps just tunnel on the strongest mob, if you dont have confidence that you can keep the tunneled dps on their feet, just dont heal them and hope the tank will take care of it. If you heal hard on a tunnelvision dps and he dies, you will have massive agro, and the dps will have learned nothing.

 

And plz someone tell dps it´s ok to help with interupts. Usually tanks interupt fine, but it´s alot rarer for a dps.

Ofc knowing what to interupt is important. Also when you interupt let the castbar run to 75% or so. Unless it´s a channeled thing ofc. As long as the target is casting he´s not hurting anyone. It´s the finished cast we need to worry about.

 

All of this i´m fairly sure most forumusers, if not all, allready knows. I dont put much weight into optimising dps and keybinds. Optimising dps will help for sure, but a bad dps in terms of output is much preferred over a good dps with tunnelvision and no situation awareness.

 

Ofc, this mainly aplies to FP but i´m fairly sure it aplies to OP´s asswell. Ofc. in the realy hard OP´s you cant afford a dps that have low dps output, but realy, if a dps can do everything else right, then i bet he can learn to dps just fine too. Just teach him how.

killing order of mobs? only if you are undergear, must ppl buy and gear up BH gear, so they are overgear for much everthing in the game.

 

Spoken like a true baddie. Players like you make me lose faith in humanity. Nothing annoys me worse when I'm tanking a FP and DPS jump straight on the strongest mob leaving me to go hit all the others so that the healer doesn't die. If you didn't tunnel vision and did you're supposed to do, me and the healer's job would be a lot easier.

Spoken like a true baddie. Players like you make me lose faith in humanity. Nothing annoys me worse when I'm tanking a FP and DPS jump straight on the strongest mob leaving me to go hit all the others so that the healer doesn't die. If you didn't tunnel vision and did you're supposed to do, me and the healer's job would be a lot easier.

 

So you what? 3 man flashpoints with just one random dps? As for the healer dying I generally use "taunt" and/or a aoe to grab threat. As for hitting a "strong" given the gear and power creep a strong is merely the old "normal" and a dps can kill one during the course of a single ravage channel while tanks can simply 2 shot the normals.

 

Depending on team setup the most efficient strategies vary greatly, the "basics" are fine but are not always relevant especially in flashpoints which even in pugs are usually insanely simple.

Tanks

You are a bad tank if:

You do not have "Target of Target" enabled in your UI.

 

You fail to hold aggro for one or more mobs.

Test case: Kaon Under Siege

 

You fail to hold a boss's aggro throughout most or all of the fight.

 

You are a good tank if:

You can place an enemy exactly where they are supposed to be.

Test case: Soa

 

You can area taunt with precision.

 

You coordinate tank switches efficiently with your other tank.

Test case: Fabricator, Zorn & Toth, Ciphas/Heirad/Kel'sara

 

You use your defensive cooldowns effectively

 

I'm not sure I totally agree with everything you mentioned about the Tank spec.

 

First off, Soa is a bad example to determine if someone is a bad tank. The camera angle in game isnt that great for trying to pick up the pillars that appear during the fight, so it can be difficult for a Tank to maneuver Soa into position under the spinning pillar.

 

I also disagree on the Holding Aggro piece. Some tanks, and Guardian Tanks in particular, from time to time have difficulty holding Aggro on Mobs. Not really sure why this is, cause most other Tank specs have little to no trouble holding them. I didn't believe this until my Guardian had similar issues. Now I just drive my Threat up and that usually takes care of that problem.

 

This of course leads in to holding Aggro on Bosses, which Guardians also have issues with. The use of Taunt and Challenging Call are almost necessary to acquire or maintain Aggro for most of the fight. With Guardians, the DPS might want to be careful what they use during the fight because raising their Threat level can pull the Mobs and/or Boss off of the Guardian Tank, and if that Tank is waiting for Cooldown on Taunt or Challenging Call, that DPS could be in BIG trouble.

 

I can't speak to experience on other Tanks, but the Guardian is a unique specimen.

key binding and clicking has absolutely nothing to do with how good or bad you are. this is a fallacy learned from those who have played wow with its multitude of stupid players which nothing would help anyways. with any gcd it is all pointless as to any reaction time PERCIEVED to be saved through key binding. a properly set up hot bar is far better than looking down at the keyboard for which key to hit.

 

there is no way until you play with someone to tell if they are good or bad. even then it is a matter of opinion with some people. even gear choice isn't always a good indication as what they have now might not be perfect but was better than what they had previously.

 

what my guild looks for in players for prospective guild members are those that listen and are taught able. if not then we deem them as BAD PLAYERS.

I'm not a clicker, but i disagree with the clickers are bad. Especially in pve. 99% of the mobs stand still, how does that make a clicker have a hard time? Pve is way to easy to be overly critical about something so trivial. PvP is where a clicker would be separated from the binder,. The non-stop moving around and watching out for the objectives.

 

I have most my offense, and defensive skills binded, but do find clicking in certain situations does work out better. I cant have all my skills in an easy to reach place while trying to do others. There are many buttons, but only 1 hand to reach them while strafing. Thanks to a cheapo 3 button mouse. But after spending $80 for the game, and another $700 for a system the game would work on (wouldn't even start up on my old pc). I cant justify spending any more just to play, so i make do with what i got.

You obviously haven't been to NiM EC yet. That op separates the men from the boys.

 

What if you're a woman?

 

Just asking

Thanks for the comments all. I was admittedly being provocative when I said that not key binding makes you a bad player. Being a clicker doesn't necessarily make you a bad player, per se, but ceteris paribus, a key binder is better than a clicker.

 

Sydexlic has eloquently demonstrated why key binding is the superior method of game play. I will add one additional argument.

 

1: Situational awareness is absolutely crucial for effective PvE gameplay. Raid bosses will have multiple mechanics occurring simultaneously during a fight. A player who is not sufficiently situationally aware will be a liability to the group.

 

2: Frequent camera rotation and repositioning is required in order to situationally aware.

 

3: Using the mouse to move the camera is faster and far more effective than using the keyboard..

 

4: It is not feasible to use the mouse to rotate the camera and click on the quickbar simultaneously.

 

5: It is feasible to use the mouse to rotate the camera and use the key bound quickbar simultaneously.

 

6: A player who can actively reposition the camera to maintain situational awareness while simultaneously attending to their role-specific duties will be more effective than a player who is not able to do both.

 

7: Therefore, ceteris paribus, a key binder is a more effective player than a clicker.

 

#4 might be false, but I am skeptical.

I should also add that I don't claim to be an awesome PvE player. I make lots of mistakes, but I try to get better each time I raid. I find that these guidelines serve as helpful reminders when I'm playing.

I agree with most of what the OP said.

 

But I disagree with the clicker vs key binding thing. Not that I am one, but this "clickers r bad mmkay" is something WoW players are force fed. They get use to keybinding so they can't use clicking effectively, and then assume all the "facts" they've been told are true. Which aren't, it is possible to be just as effective with clicking if you have a good reaction times and eye sight.

Edited November 17, 2012 by Radzkie

I don't think calling a mouse clicker a "bad player" is the most constructive way of addressing the topic, BUT key binding is a superior way to play SWTOR. I mouse clicked for the first couple of months of subscribing. I found it to be exceedingly difficult to adapt to various end-game mechanics... Especially being able to realiably interrupt while running through my rotations. Once you realize how much easier key binding makes your life, I don't think anyone would go back.

Not using keybinds is like not using voice chat. Successful raiding is almost certainly possible without either but both make your time significantly easier. Also someone said its easier to click than to look down and pick the right key, but one of the hallmarks of smart key binding is putting your binds where they are easy to reach. Also if you can type without hunt and peck, then you can use keybinds without looking down.

What if you're a woman?

 

Just asking

 

NiM EC separates the

Women from the girls:)

I don't judge people based on their playstyle, if the boss dies at a reasonable speed and no one dies to avoidable damage I'm satisfied.

 

The only major pet peeve that marks a bad player is during or after a wipe and some idiot asks "what happened?" Pay attention to what's going on around you, the answer to that question is usually pretty obvious.