Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

SWTOR going P2W?


Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
11.12.2018 , 11:38 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by arunav View Post
In general, I agree it's a problem you can get BiS with a credit card, though. That was never possible in what's approaching 7 years.
You're forgetting about the craftable Campaign and Dread Guard gear in the 1.x days.

When the Cartel Market was introduced, people were able to buy things with cash, sell thos things for credits, and then use those credits purchase BiS gear being sold on the GTN. Also remember that there were set bonuses tied to the armor shells, and Tionese gear was being given for free just for dinging 50.

It wasn't until 2.0 that craftable gear was kept at one tier below BiS.

Syal's Avatar


Syal
11.13.2018 , 01:39 AM | #12
its still something happen.

for eg its possible to buy satel shan set armor from cash in CM and sell this armor into the in game market to convert it in credits. and with those credit we can buy BIS.
SWTOR since 2012 !
Guild Force Unifie French PVE
The Leviathan

arunav's Avatar


arunav
11.13.2018 , 01:41 AM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Khevar View Post
You're forgetting about the craftable Campaign and Dread Guard gear in the 1.x days.

When the Cartel Market was introduced, people were able to buy things with cash, sell thos things for credits, and then use those credits purchase BiS gear being sold on the GTN. Also remember that there were set bonuses tied to the armor shells, and Tionese gear was being given for free just for dinging 50.

It wasn't until 2.0 that craftable gear was kept at one tier below BiS.
I don't remember that, but I was more into playing through all the class stories slowly and level 50 PVP back then.

As far as "free gear" goes, there are always catch-up mechanisms that have been in place in this and other MMOs. 126 gear with a set bonus, which if I remember correctly is what Tionese was, wasn't of concern in late 2012.

I would refer you to my previous post for thoughts on craftable 258 gear and potential problems with it:

"For example, let's say people get their 7 armor pieces doing Ossus dailies, MM FPs, etc. Will some "whales" or people generally be tempted to buy Earpiece/Implants/Relics with actual money? Does it become even more likely with Alts?

What about Mainhand/Offhand hilts, barrels and armorings, what is especially important for DPS and Healing? So far, it's not clear from the PTS if these will be craftable or not.

If they are, how many people will simply buy them instead of running a really difficult MM/NiM Operation, if they can even find a reliable group to do progression with these days?

Sure, veteran players generally have credits saved up, but others may not (say, folks who mostly just PVP, or those who return to the game to find their credits are worth almost nothing). And that you can simply use a credit card to get the BiS pieces you need to fill in on a character is, in my view, a problematic shift for the game. This is especially the case if revenue from SWTOR increases as a result.

We'll see how it actually works on the live server's market. It's generally not an efficient use of money to buy gear this way, but people have been wasting money on CM packs/items for most of the game's life when it was easy to play the GTN and game generally and buy the same items with credits earned in the process."
"In the end, cowards are those that follow the dark side."

Free Inventory Slot, Character Transfer, and Subscription Time:
http://www.swtor.com/r/YpmgMVhttp://

merovejec's Avatar


merovejec
11.13.2018 , 07:30 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Khevar View Post
people were able to buy things with cash, sell thos things for credits, and then use those credits purchase BiS gear being sold on the GTN.
Yes, this is how I understand the P2W, since you can use real money to buy CM stuff, sell on GTN and use those credits to buy the gear so.... it is P2W in a certain way.
Merovejec
7 days of being a sub, try it! Refferal Link
Achievements 5.9.3 67140

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
11.13.2018 , 09:57 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by arunav View Post
I don't remember that, but I was more into playing through all the class stories slowly and level 50 PVP back then.

As far as "free gear" goes, there are always catch-up mechanisms that have been in place in this and other MMOs. 126 gear with a set bonus, which if I remember correctly is what Tionese was, wasn't of concern in late 2012.

I would refer you to my previous post for thoughts on craftable 258 gear and potential problems with it:
I get what you're saying, but everything you're describing was possible after the Cartel Market was introduced.

Now, bearing in mind that this is just my experience (so take it with a grain of salt), but the ability to purchase BiS didn't initially have much affect on the ability to form a group and run content. This was, in my opinion, primarily due to availability.

It wasn't until late in the 1.x lifecycle when two things happened:

1. Someone discovered a trick that allowed them to learn BiS schematics by buying someone else's crafted mod, putting it into moddable gear, tearing it out, and reverse engineering it. Bioware eventually acknowledged this practice publicly and decided that it wasn't an exploit. At this point any crafter could learn to make BiS. Note that this was later patched out, but not for a very long time.

2. The previously rare materials of Molecular Stabilizers could be obtained by purchasing PvP gear and reverse engineering them. Suddenly you had a massive availability of the raw materials, accompanied by a significant number of crafters who could make it.

At that point it became easier for many players to buy BiS than to earn it. And I saw declines of groups forming. Both in my own guild, and on the fleet. But it was availability that caused this problem. Early on, materials were scarce, crafters were few, and prices were high.

What we see right now on the PTS, with the extraordinary costs of rare materials, the availability of 258 gear is going to be low. And the prices will be extraordinary.

These days, a full set of 246 runs around 50 million on Satele Shan.

What's 258 going to be? 300 million? 400 million? 500 million? How much real world money, turned into credits through the cartel market will that take? How many people will actually be willing to pay that much?

I think the impact of the ability to buy BiS is going to minimal, based purely on availability.

SteveTheCynic's Avatar


SteveTheCynic
11.13.2018 , 10:09 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by merovejec View Post
Yes, this is how I understand the P2W, since you can use real money to buy CM stuff, sell on GTN and use those credits to buy the gear so.... it is P2W in a certain way.
At worst, that's a subset of P2A, "pay to accelerate". If you do what you described, you can't get something that I can't get by playing the game. What you get, you get *faster*, whence "accelerate".
http://www.swtor.com/r/Hg3sV2
To go to Belsavis, you must go to Belsavis.
> @"Biff.5312" said:
> Exercise your whimsy.

Andryah's Avatar


Andryah
11.13.2018 , 10:11 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by arunav View Post
In general, I agree it's a problem you can get BiS with a credit card, though. That was never possible in what's approaching 7 years.
This is not a BiS with a credit card pathway though.. it's a credits for BiS pathway. There is a difference, in spite of the fact that you do have a mechanism for CC-2-Credits. Nor is there any evidence of players in any numbers actually doing the CC-2-Credits thing anyway... not for years now. There are certainly some who work the heck out of their referral rewards program, but that is not using RL money either. And note: at any given time... about a third of the CC float in the player base is not actually purchased with a credit card, it is awarded either as part of a subscription or refer-a-friend program.

Now.. if you want to prosecute the decision by the studio to make BiS gear (with set bonus) craftable BoE to begin with.. that is a worthy debate topic. But can we please get off this silly distortion of the term P2W? Such a distortion makes even a subscription = P2W by the very loose definition some players are peddling here.... because a player can subscribe and have access to unlimited earnings in credits and access to said credits in game to buy anything in game they choose that can be traded between players.

The difference between billionaires and paupers in SWTOR is not the method-2-credits.. it is the focus and determination of the player to build self-sustaining wealth in game. And by the way... buying CM items and selling them for credits is simply not the best way in this particular game (not even close), and is certainly a non-starter for this new gear (which would literally cost you many hundred of dollars for a set by going this convoluted pathway of CC-2-Credits. Most players... even those playing this new Credit_Card-2-Credits meme in the discussion will not spend that kind of RL money for some virtual goods... so the assertion that this is P2W and will ruin the game in a P2W sense just does not scan.
When you find yourself surrounded by hostile Clowns... always go for the "Juggler" first.