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Arsenal and Innovative Ordnance Mercenary/Gunnery and Assault Specialist Set Bonus Discussion

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Commando / Mercenary
Arsenal and Innovative Ordnance Mercenary/Gunnery and Assault Specialist Set Bonus Discussion
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TheWookiee's Avatar


TheWookiee
07.16.2015 , 08:05 AM | #41
Maybe multiple set bonuses are needed per each advanced class. One for Arsenal, one for IO. Then break down the bonus like:

2 Piece = Defensive bonus
4 Piece = Utility Bonus
6 Piece = DPS Bonus

This could work for both PvP and PvE.
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Transcendent's Avatar


Transcendent
07.16.2015 , 09:44 AM | #42
Quote: Originally Posted by TheWookiee View Post
Maybe multiple set bonuses are needed per each advanced class. One for Arsenal, one for IO. Then break down the bonus like:

2 Piece = Defensive bonus
4 Piece = Utility Bonus
6 Piece = DPS Bonus

This could work for both PvP and PvE.
That's actually a very good suggestion to make in terms of set bonus per ac or specs, and we've seen it previously for Agents / Smugglers where they've had completely different set bonuses depending on the spec used.

It really would be beneficial splitting off the Merc DPS set bonuses, due to the very nature of one class being a dot spec while the other is anything but a dot spec. IO and Arsenal set bonuses should be completely different, perhaps still sharing something similar for the 2-pc as it does now, but branching off different ways after that.

You could give IO some love then on heat management within the set bonus, and give Arsenal some love in terms of making it the more PvP viable of the specs (in my opinion I'll add, not saying IO isn't PvP viable, it's just not great )

Thanks to everyone who has used my Refer a Friend link over the years, may the force be with you.

TheJollyRogers's Avatar


TheJollyRogers
07.16.2015 , 11:07 AM | #43
I'm still not entirely sure if we're allowed to create an IO specific set (as I don't play Arsenal), but I'd personally would want something like (and this is purely for PvP):

2-Piece: Mag Shot and Thermal Detonator critical hits vent 15 heat.
4-Piece: Serrated Shot applies Incendiary Missile on player targets.
6-Piece: Activating Unload or Full Auto will grant Eliminator's Critical Bonus making your next Mag Shot or Mag Bolt critically hit. This effect can only occur once a minute.
Serfiri / Zeralin
IO Mercenary / AP Powertech
Cherry Pops / The Bastion

Lalainnia's Avatar


Lalainnia
07.16.2015 , 11:09 AM | #44
Quote: Originally Posted by Zoom_VI View Post
Yes and no.

I believe that burst damage has gotten out of hand. "Globalling" (killing a target in a single global cooldown) is no longer a exaggeration or myth, but rather a cold hard reality, and not just a reality, but a requirement for viability.

Used to be bursting someone down was considered killing them in 10 seconds or so, but at the same time it took 10 seconds or so to recover a player from near death.
Nowadays though? You watch HP bars in a match, and you will see people go from 90% to 30% in a single GCD, and then be back at 85% in the next GCD, and then two GCDs later they are dead. In high end PvP, players live or die in timespans of a single GCD.

But the thing is unless bioware does a complete reversal of the meta in 4.0, the burst requirements for viability will only go up, since 4.0 will likely bring even more defensives.
Burst classes in terms of TTK are stronger now than ever before, yet now they struggle for viability more than they ever have in the past. Why? Because there is so many ways to negate burst now it's not even funny.


For burst to come down, then steps must be taken to remove much of the high-potency defensives from the meta so that higher burst TTK becomes doable. However since I doubt Bioware will do this (The 2.5 UDR nerf has been the only defensive nerf this side of 1.2) I really think the autocrits should stay since the last thing the meta needs is to make burst comps even more marginalized. One of the reasons dotspecs (aka pressure or sustained specs) have become so dominant in arenas is because simply trying to do more overall DPS than the opposing teams HPS is vastly easier to pull off than trying to run a hardswitch in a meta full of immunities and godmode DcDs.
just wanna say it's not dotspecs its literally hatred and madness I don't see leth operatives virulence snipers, pyro pts, io mercs, anni maras or veng jugs being dominant in arena maybe veng jugg for solo. Also agree with how TTK has been messed also think another think to note that adds into that broken TTK are the proc relics.
Donna-Commando-Combat Medic
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Faardor's Avatar


Faardor
07.16.2015 , 04:29 PM | #45
sad to see this thread hijacked by pvp aimed theories and ideas. None of the set bonuses currently out there (aside from the ones for tanks) grant any utility or defensives, lets stick to dps increases.

TheJollyRogers's Avatar


TheJollyRogers
07.17.2015 , 12:23 AM | #46
Quote: Originally Posted by Faardor View Post
sad to see this thread hijacked by pvp aimed theories and ideas. None of the set bonuses currently out there (aside from the ones for tanks) grant any utility or defensives, lets stick to dps increases.
1) PvPers play this game, too.

2) It's pretty derp to say "you can't suggest that!" in a thread asking for ideas for new set bonuses. If they wanted only DPS increases, they would specifically say it.
Serfiri / Zeralin
IO Mercenary / AP Powertech
Cherry Pops / The Bastion

TheWookiee's Avatar


TheWookiee
07.17.2015 , 07:27 AM | #47
Quote: Originally Posted by Faardor View Post
sad to see this thread hijacked by pvp aimed theories and ideas. None of the set bonuses currently out there (aside from the ones for tanks) grant any utility or defensives, lets stick to dps increases.
I do not PvP on my Merc. I use him primarily for raiding and high end PvE. I would love to see a more expansive set bonus that included utilities and defenses rather than just straight up DPS bonuses. There is no reason the DPS increase has to take all 3 bonus slots. you can easily roll a 5% increase in one of the bonuses and have the others open for other useful bonuses.
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Transcendent's Avatar


Transcendent
07.17.2015 , 09:20 AM | #48
Quote: Originally Posted by Faardor View Post
sad to see this thread hijacked by pvp aimed theories and ideas. None of the set bonuses currently out there (aside from the ones for tanks) grant any utility or defensives, lets stick to dps increases.
So ALL Merc / Mando players shouldn't ask for seperate set bonuses for PvP as well as PvE? You do realise that the same class plays different in each environment don't you? You do realise it would work better having a set bonus geared towards PvE content, and a set bonus geared towards PvP content don't you?

Instead of turning it into a "waaaah, I don't like PvP" thread, how about you actually suggest something constructive instead?

Thanks to everyone who has used my Refer a Friend link over the years, may the force be with you.

midianlord's Avatar


midianlord
07.18.2015 , 03:19 PM | #49
Quote: Originally Posted by Gyronamics View Post
IIRC the set bonuses are identical to prevent cheesing of content either way with PVP and PVE set bonuses.

Current 3.0 set bonuses for Merc DPS allow you to get a large damage boost when opening up on a boss.

At any point after that in the fight or in PVP in general the long cooldown of the procs are nothing to rely on because they are not on demand. They are nailed to things which are core to doing damage.

Oh look it's procced, quick, I must find someone to use this autocrit on....

Oh look, I gained 2% damage for the next 30s... yet this is so trivial it's not going to influence my combat decisions.

As for the -5s on Power Surge... Irrelevant in PVE and no big deal in PVP either. 5 seconds off 60 seconds is nothing.

Unless you're planning on doing something meaningful with Merc survivability in PVP then I'd like to take the opportunity to wedge in some survivability into the set bonus and bring back the lowered cooldowns you dropped from Merc PVP sets when you made the 3.0 ones.

-5s on Hydraulic Overrides cooldown specific to Merc to prevent cross dressing by Powertechs.
-5s on Jet Boost

And then with the 6PC you can put whatever overcomplicated DPS boost you want but frankly a flat boost to Blazing Bolts or Mag Shot would be much more attractive than juggling or ignoring more procs popping on the buff bar.


Actually scratch the cooldowns, how about fixing something using the set bonus which has annoyed me for a longass time.

You cloned Hydraulic Overrides from the Powertech and glued them onto the Merc.

Except Powertech is a melee class festooned with instant attacks. Merc has to sit still to cast or it does nothing but eat damage, do very little damage and even less healing.

As a result when someone decides this is a good day to put some grief on the Merc causing them to want to get away it's a self-shutdown for the Merc for as long as they try to use the duration of Hydraulic Overrides to make distance.

How did that ever make sense to anyone. Snipers have a 18m teleport plus immunities, Sorcs have a high speed dash which takes about 2s. Both of which allow distance making without shutting down the player using them.

Mercs have a moderate jog for 6-10s which stops them casting... despite them being a caster?

This is what it should have been all along:

Hydraulic Overrides allows casts and channels on the move for its duration.

Then DPS Merc doesn't have to be totally useless when breaking away from a fight as they can keep dealing damage or healing as they move.

Burn a set bonus on that. It should be baseline or at the very least a mid level utility but when all you're asked for is opinions on set bonuses...
^That.^ Especially the H/O.

We've already got the alpha-strike of the Gods, we don't need more, especially given the "community-meta" of "Nerf everything, OP TO STR0NK!!!"

Give us a consistent, dependable way to dictate range and keep it, if you're not going to give us the escape we've needed since day-1.

Maybe, as others have said up-thread, a fully defensive-orientated set bonus, at least for PvP:

2/6: Hydraulic Overrides' duration is increased by [XX] seconds and its cooldown is reduced by [YY] seconds. (Change the tree-talent to grant the same speed increase that PTechs get.)

4/6: Jet-boost's cooldown is reduced by [ZZ] seconds, and it now roots all affected targets for [3-5] seconds.

6/6: Critical ticks of Unload/BlazeBolts build stacks of [name]. At [X] stacks of [name] the cooldown of Energy Shield is re-set, and your next Energy Shield's damage-reduction is increased by [YY]%. Rate limit...hmmmm....once per minute, let's say.

E:

And one for PvE:

These people seem either very determined to, or simply incapable of staying away from, continuing to genericise everything, so here's one for the 2-piece that generic right out of the box, yet actually does something genuinely useful:

2/6: The group/raid-wide lockout of [Bloodthirst/Supercharged Celerity/Tactical Superiority/Unlimited Power] is reduced by 30 seconds, and the effect's duration is increased by 5 seconds. The player applying this effect must be equipped with this set-bonus for the party/raid to benefit from same, but it is applicable by any party/raid member so equipped.

4/6: Activating Chaff-Flare now temporarily stealths the Mercenary for its duration, in addition to its existing effects.

6/6: OK, OK keep the HSM/MagShots autocrit if you must, but I said it before, and I'll say it again:

We don't need a damage-boost, especially to our already (arguably) game-leading alpha-strike!

I am very sure that this is only going to get us shat on with nerfs in the near future!

So....6/6 for PvE:

Hell, just give us back the free RailShot (for Arsenal) and make Fusion Missile free for I/O. Rate limit, once per 30 seconds.
Merc and 'Slinger since launch, Merc and 'Slinger for life
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Kaos_KidSWTOR's Avatar


Kaos_KidSWTOR
07.19.2015 , 09:05 AM | #50
The only thing I want changed is the 4pc.

Old 4-pc: Power Surge/Tech Override CD reduction by 5s.

That's pretty useless, I like it on paper, and it can be helpful in the opening of a rotation for a little extra APM, but it's not a DPS increase at all.

New Concept 4-pc: Increase the Duration of Supercharge Cells/Supercharged Gas by 5s.

This would be the exact same as the Healer Merc/Mando SB, and would be a great DPS increase.