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Arsenal and Innovative Ordnance Mercenary/Gunnery and Assault Specialist Set Bonus Discussion

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Commando / Mercenary
Arsenal and Innovative Ordnance Mercenary/Gunnery and Assault Specialist Set Bonus Discussion
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Transcendent's Avatar


Transcendent
07.15.2015 , 02:19 PM | #31
Quote: Originally Posted by Zoom_VI View Post
Until you realize that a Commando who doesn't crit on demo round is doing less burst than some dotspecs. *snip*
I think the issue there is that other classes need toning down on their burst damage, not that we don't do enough. Especially when you consider some classes lack of defensive abilities in comparison to some classes.

I'll point out tying in defensive abilities that the developers are seemingly reluctant to give the class will actually allow us to do more dps by the fact we'll live slightly longer. I know it's not ideal, and the ideal situation is that they actually give the class what it requires to be competitive in PvP.

Also, completely agreed with others that the 4-pc set bonus for Mercs / Mandos is beyond useless, it needs to be changed for something useful. Ideally the 6-pc set bonus needs changing as well. The 2-pc I don't take issue with, as it's a flat out DPS increase, whichever way you want to look at it.

I don't think losing the Crit bonus on the 6-pc would actually be a loss, I mean really, we can suggest better than this for the class right? A Crit bonus on some specs (i.e. Arsenal) is terrible, if you want crits, use crit mods.

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TheWookiee's Avatar


TheWookiee
07.15.2015 , 02:42 PM | #32
I agree that the 6 piece set bonuses for just about all classes are kind of disappointing. Considering this is supposed to be the end goal of progression tier gearing, it just seems like there should be more of a wow factor to it. Even if you had to downgrade the 2 and 4 piece bonuses slightly to make the 6 piece be more dynamic and powerful would be welcome in my opinion. Would really make it more exciting getting that last piece.

Zoom_VI's Avatar


Zoom_VI
07.15.2015 , 03:11 PM | #33
Quote: Originally Posted by Transcendent View Post
I think the issue there is that other classes need toning down on their burst damage, not that we don't do enough. Especially when you consider some classes lack of defensive abilities in comparison to some classes.

Yes and no.

I believe that burst damage has gotten out of hand. "Globalling" (killing a target in a single global cooldown) is no longer a exaggeration or myth, but rather a cold hard reality, and not just a reality, but a requirement for viability.

Used to be bursting someone down was considered killing them in 10 seconds or so, but at the same time it took 10 seconds or so to recover a player from near death.
Nowadays though? You watch HP bars in a match, and you will see people go from 90% to 30% in a single GCD, and then be back at 85% in the next GCD, and then two GCDs later they are dead. In high end PvP, players live or die in timespans of a single GCD.

But the thing is unless bioware does a complete reversal of the meta in 4.0, the burst requirements for viability will only go up, since 4.0 will likely bring even more defensives.
Burst classes in terms of TTK are stronger now than ever before, yet now they struggle for viability more than they ever have in the past. Why? Because there is so many ways to negate burst now it's not even funny.


For burst to come down, then steps must be taken to remove much of the high-potency defensives from the meta so that higher burst TTK becomes doable. However since I doubt Bioware will do this (The 2.5 UDR nerf has been the only defensive nerf this side of 1.2) I really think the autocrits should stay since the last thing the meta needs is to make burst comps even more marginalized. One of the reasons dotspecs (aka pressure or sustained specs) have become so dominant in arenas is because simply trying to do more overall DPS than the opposing teams HPS is vastly easier to pull off than trying to run a hardswitch in a meta full of immunities and godmode DcDs.
Crinn

Sanity is for the weak minded.

Zoom_VI's Avatar


Zoom_VI
07.15.2015 , 03:12 PM | #34
Quote: Originally Posted by TheWookiee View Post
I agree that the 6 piece set bonuses for just about all classes are kind of disappointing. Considering this is supposed to be the end goal of progression tier gearing, it just seems like there should be more of a wow factor to it. Even if you had to downgrade the 2 and 4 piece bonuses slightly to make the 6 piece be more dynamic and powerful would be welcome in my opinion. Would really make it more exciting getting that last piece.
I fail to see how a autocrit isn't "wow" or "exciting"
Crinn

Sanity is for the weak minded.

TheWookiee's Avatar


TheWookiee
07.15.2015 , 03:47 PM | #35
Quote: Originally Posted by Zoom_VI View Post
I fail to see how a autocrit isn't "wow" or "exciting"
I believe you mean autocrit once a minute

And no, it's not very Wow or Exciting working through the gear grind just to get a once a minute damage buff for only one attack.

Gyronamics's Avatar


Gyronamics
07.15.2015 , 04:45 PM | #36
I am indifferent as to how the "up to 5%" dps boost is enabled but I have no great enthusiasm for proc effects which clutter up the bar and have invisible internal cooldowns you can rely on only if you've been sitting on your butt for over 1 min beforehand.

It's unnecessary to have two dps buffs, they are small and are still split into two to pad out the existence of the triple set bonus.

So why not get behind survivability bonuses and just leave one of the three for the actual dps bonus.

If the sets are to be identical between PVP and PVE there is good logic in granting a survivability bonus which is primarily effective in PVP while the dps bonus is of more importance in PVE.

Hydraulic Overrides has the major flaw of being a mobility ability that requires you to keep moving for 6-10s to get the most out of the mobility aspect. Should be a ranged kiting tool right? Not when it doesn't allow casting.

Enable casting and channelling on Hydraulic Overrides with the set bonus and see how DPS Merc improves in PVP when it can run off while using its heals or continuing damage instead of being very ineffective while trying to get away for 6-10 seconds.

File it under improved sustainability of damage.
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Zoom_VI's Avatar


Zoom_VI
07.15.2015 , 06:25 PM | #37
Quote: Originally Posted by Gyronamics View Post
I am indifferent as to how the "up to 5%" dps boost is enabled but I have no great enthusiasm for proc effects which clutter up the bar and have invisible internal cooldowns you can rely on only if you've been sitting on your butt for over 1 min beforehand.
Which is why the mechanic of the setbonus should be altered so that the user can see the ICD. Adding more RNG into a class that is wholly crit dependant is not the way to go.
Crinn

Sanity is for the weak minded.

Gyronamics's Avatar


Gyronamics
07.15.2015 , 06:33 PM | #38
Or you give a flat bonus like the old sets had.

Such as the old 8% increased bonus on Railshot, 15% increased crit chance on Power Shot etc...
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Zoom_VI's Avatar


Zoom_VI
07.16.2015 , 06:13 AM | #39
Quote: Originally Posted by Gyronamics View Post
Or you give a flat bonus like the old sets had.

Such as the old 8% increased bonus on Railshot, 15% increased crit chance on Power Shot etc...
Still doesn't effect the "if your demo and HiB don't crit, your burst wouldn't kill a already half dead target" in PvP.
Crinn

Sanity is for the weak minded.

Gyronamics's Avatar


Gyronamics
07.16.2015 , 07:53 AM | #40
You mean the burst damage when you know your healing relies on you not using Railshot when you have stacks of Tracer Lock as Arsenal?

You can't just use the stacks on Railshot then Power Surge an instant Rapid Scan when the patch comes out. You'll only get half the healing value compared to doing that with Healing Scan right now.

I had a few pages to say about that on the PTS forum because without stacks Rapid Scan is bad for the cost and with stacks its got a long prep time of 3 Tracer Missile casts and huge associated cost.

Anyone thinking all that increased mess for horribly inefficient healing and compromised damage was good is very wrong.

Seriously, you're sitting in a fight ANYWHERE as a DPS Merc and your one off healing value relies on you having cast Tracer Missile 3 times and not used Railshot.

Oh you just took huge damage and need as much healing as possible? Well you shouldn't have ever used that Railshot should you DPS Merc.

An equally rubbish damage crippling mechanic was installed for Innovative Ordinance which allows you to compromise your rotation timers so you can mash random buttons until they reset again.
Hotwired

Niman, Tomb of Freedon Nadd, The Red Eclipse, Darth Malgus

2011 - The Immortals, The Lumberjacks, Nano, Not Good Enough, Disciples of Babylon, Salt Miners - 2018