Azesino Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 I want to play a stealth char for open world pvp mainly 1v1. I am undecided between assassin and Operative, which one is better? what are their pros and cons?How do assassins do in 1v1? which class gives them the most trouble? Ty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_Kimmo Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Assassins are a joke in 1v1, unless they get the opening and the opponent is a keyboard turner, or more preferably AFK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astarica Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 As an Assassin I lose more often than I win in a rare 1 on 1 situation. I think Assassins are pretty bad in 1 on 1 since any combiantion of 2 stun/kb/snare can pretty much kill us. Since we don't have an effective way to root the enemy either, even in ideal cases it's still easy for the enemy to escape. You basically have to hit with a Low Slash and hope that Expose Weakness procs, because if it doesn't then you won't have enough Force to finish someone with a Maul + Assassinate. But I find 1 on 1 to be pretty rare in PvP. Usually you either get focus fired for no reason (there are a lot more dangerous guys than us) and die immediatey anyway, or if someone ignores you, you can wrack a lot of havoc since we have pretty good sustained DPS. The problem with Assassin is that we get a good burst of something like Discharge -> Maul -> Assassinate -> Whatever that will usually kill someone instantly, but they have to be low enough for you to use Assassinate in the first place. You can probably drop someone from 50 to 0 pretty quick, but getting from 100 to 50 is likely to get yourself killed first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ennazthehunter Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 I just rolled an asass arlier today, sent him a bunch of crafted gear and got him to 11, then did a warzone. all i can say is it reminds me of playing a asass rogue on wow, but more fluid. kind of a cross between an asass rogue and a sub rogue, but like the dude above me said, they have really good sustained damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thegroundissour Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 I'm sorry but it's not as fluid as a rogue in wow at all, it's so clunky and slow and on top of that you have abilities not firing or delaying. It's like banging your head against a brick wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putok Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 I've only done a few BGs, but I was absolutely dominating people 1v1 as darkness spec, especially melee classes. Troopers seemed to be the only class that really gave me any trouble all all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaption Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 LOL at the the low level and especially the level 11s that are going to answer how we are 1v1. In my opinion, only in mid 30s so far....i also lose more then i win 1v1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starcron Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 As a lvl 45 darkness spec, I can beat lvl 50 melee classes 1v1 (as long as they dont have pvp gear) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jnaathra Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 (edited) LOL at the the low level and especially the level 11s that are going to answer how we are 1v1. In my opinion, only in mid 30s so far....i also lose more then i win 1v1. I have to ask. Why is their opinion not viable at all? The vast majority of the PVP in this game takes place in Warzones. Warzones put everyone on fairly equal footing stat wise. The exception is 50s with lots of expertise gear. I regularly chew through lvl 40s using my alts that are in the teens. World PVP is almost non-existent. I went from 1-50 and got into TWO FIGHTS (pvp server). Ilum might pick things up, but people are going to be making tons of alts so even that will take weeks if not months to populate well. Even then it could just turn into objective trading non-sense considering how it is designed. Edited January 3, 2012 by Jnaathra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGrey Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 You can't judge how level 50 pvp is going to be based on how it is when you're 11 because regardless of the fact that your stats are scaled, you only have two talent points and very likely none of your class/spec defining abilities. Quite obviously, that makes it difficult to discuss the viability of your class. Yes, the experience is important, but your performance in the low teens doesn't have much weight in a meaningful discussion about the matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uppitycracker Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 I dunno, I'm only level 16, and I tend to be in the top 3 in the warzones, often times topping damage/kills. Things only tend to get iffy when I'm going against more than 1 person. Considering how well I do at level 16, I can't wait to see how I do once I have all my abilities/talents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whatevr Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 I don't find myself having too much trouble 1v1 at level 42. I'm a mix of a deception/madness spec (mostly madness) that provides me with dots as well as some heavy burst damage. Once I hit 50 my maul will do some incredible damage which is what I'm really looking forward to. I've adapted my playstyle to be a hybrid now between melee and force abilities which is really what we should be doing. We have ranged abilities which need to be utilized as well. Death Field, Shock, Force Lightning, Crushing Darkness, and Discharge are all great abilities to use mainly because they're internal damage. Obviously many people here prefer the melee only playstyle but I hope you realize we're given these other abilities for a reason too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chammo Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 I'm a level 49 darkness/madness hybrid (going to get 50 tonight hopefully ) and 1v1's dont tend to be all that bad unless going against a 50 with pvp gear. Even ranged people tend to go down pretty easily when you use your force slow/interrupts/stuns correctly. Healers can get annoying when you are spamming your interrupt and the game lags just long enough that you Jolt them between casts but thats something that will hopefully be resolved. If anything I find the survivability is the best part, if someone actually manages to get you to the point you have less health than them you can just vanish away and come back later Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cealog Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 As a level 50 Darkness Assassin I really only have a problem with the Scoundrel/Operative if they get the jump on me from cloak. All other classes are are beatable using the correct CDs at the right time. For Melee Classes, Sentinel/Marauder are the toughest fights, have to use unbreakable will out of first choke then use Force Shroud out of the second choke. Guardian/Warriors are fairly easy. A fellow shadow/assassin is up to gear and skill level. For range. With Force pull, improved force speed, spike, electrocute, jolt and the use of Unbreakable Will and Force Shroud make for a very fun fight. It is all about managing the stuns and interrupts. Of the range classes, the hardest to kill is the Healing Sage/Sorcerer. As a darkness, DPS is lower but survivable is very high. In a fight with the healer is almost a draw. They cant kill me and I cant kill them. The other range classes it is about closing the gap with your CDs/Force Pull/Force Speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidbs Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Assassins are a joke in 1v1, unless they get the opening and the opponent is a keyboard turner, or more preferably AFK. Are you kidding? Are you even level 50? In a 1v1 fight assassins can tear a hole in someone. Tanks would likely be the biggest obstacle but even they can be beaten when we have all of our cooldowns up. Deception assassins in particular have very controllable burst in the form of Recklessness + Overcharge Saber + relic. Pop those, spike your target, Discharge for a nice crit, Voltaic Slash twice, Shock for another crit, throw in an electrocute and a Maul, then finish up the job with an Assassinate. It's incredibly easy to reset the fight with Force Cloak and starting the entire sequence again. People just have to be aware of the right time to use our abilities, of which we have many. If you're fighting a healer or ranged person, make sure you keep force slow on them and use interrupt as much as possible to stop their heals or casted attacks. Assassins can truly control a fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hethroin Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 As a level 50 Darkness Assassin I really only have a problem with the Scoundrel/Operative if they get the jump on me from cloak. All other classes are are beatable using the correct CDs at the right time. For Melee Classes, Sentinel/Marauder are the toughest fights, have to use unbreakable will out of first choke then use Force Shroud out of the second choke. Guardian/Warriors are fairly easy. A fellow shadow/assassin is up to gear and skill level. For range. With Force pull, improved force speed, spike, electrocute, jolt and the use of Unbreakable Will and Force Shroud make for a very fun fight. It is all about managing the stuns and interrupts. Of the range classes, the hardest to kill is the Healing Sage/Sorcerer. As a darkness, DPS is lower but survivable is very high. In a fight with the healer is almost a draw. They cant kill me and I cant kill them. The other range classes it is about closing the gap with your CDs/Force Pull/Force Speed. Killing a 50 heal-spec sorc takes a while and involves managing your force effectively. If you run yourself dry you will not be able to burst them down within the stun window before they can heal. Use Recklessness and Relics together when you get them to 50%. I have not had many clean 1v1s against operative/scoundrel more often it's 3v1 with them stun locking you while 2 ranged fire on you at the same time. I think most do not view me personally as a easy target (17k HP) and proceed to 1v1 someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cealog Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Killing a 50 heal-spec sorc takes a while and involves managing your force effectively. If you run yourself dry you will not be able to burst them down within the stun window before they can heal. Use Recklessness and Relics together when you get them to 50%. I have not had many clean 1v1s against operative/scoundrel more often it's 3v1 with them stun locking you while 2 ranged fire on you at the same time. I think most do not view me personally as a easy target (17k HP) and proceed to 1v1 someone else. Thanks for the tip on the heals. I need to use my Relics and Overcharge more in all fights and it may just be the difference against the healers. I too have over 17k health. It is fun when two 30s try to jump you in huttball and you beat both and you see general chat go flaming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtydurst Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Suggestion for people struggling against tanks: Don't be afraid to mix in some kiting! I've found this to be extremely effective in 1v1 situations. Keep them slowed and use force lightning. Ideally, I open on them and get 2x VS as quick as possible, typically I'll use the knockdown opener but sometimes I just VS right out of stealth. I'll then force slow them and use the Discharge and Shock combo, while intentionaly creating some distance. I'll then stop and use force lightning, which keeps them slowed, does damage, and allows you to recharge some force. If and when they leap to you immediately use low slash (because you will be rooted). They typically will use their CC breaker and try to burst you, but just stun as soon as you can react and pound them with the 2xCS + Discharge/Shock combo. I'm lvl 46 and typically only lose to geared lvl 50 tanks. Fighting powertechs/vanguards is a different story though... they are pretty tough to take 1v1 if they're good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthNorik Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 As a level 45 Madness assa 1 on 1 are what I thrive off of, I can't be kited because a majority of my damage is ranged anyway, and when I fight other fellow light armored peeps I use my melee abilities after opening with my dots, heavy armor I use more force lightnings and kite them with force slow/force speed, electrocute. I also just go dark charge when melee is up close sometimes for the double armor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punman Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Are you kidding? Are you even level 50? In a 1v1 fight assassins can tear a hole in someone. Tanks would likely be the biggest obstacle but even they can be beaten when we have all of our cooldowns up. Deception assassins in particular have very controllable burst in the form of Recklessness + Overcharge Saber + relic. Pop those, spike your target, Discharge for a nice crit, Voltaic Slash twice, Shock for another crit, throw in an electrocute and a Maul, then finish up the job with an Assassinate. It's incredibly easy to reset the fight with Force Cloak and starting the entire sequence again. People just have to be aware of the right time to use our abilities, of which we have many. If you're fighting a healer or ranged person, make sure you keep force slow on them and use interrupt as much as possible to stop their heals or casted attacks. Assassins can truly control a fight. Are you even 50 yourself? You would know then that Overcharge Saber pops stealth, so you can't do that from stealth and still get off a Spike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinnagar Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Assassins are a joke in 1v1, unless they get the opening and the opponent is a keyboard turner, or more preferably AFK. I'm assured the opener though. Taking that into account, I think I can win even if they're sitting at they keyboard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astarica Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 (edited) I have no idea where people are getting their 1 on 1 PvP experience since I average 1 of those experience per 5 matches. The vast majority of the time I either get focused fire by 5 guys immediately and die regardless of what I do, or they leave me alone and I can kill anybody that's not a healer at 50% health repeatedly with a combinatino of Maul/Discharge/Assassinate. Here's what 1 on 1 looks like: Against healer - You get them to like 50%, you're at 70%. You Maul + Assassinate + Maul, and then try to Jolt/Low Slash/Electrocute to stop their heals. You'll usually fail because Jolt only stops one heal, and they're likely to use their CC breaker for your stun and lightning bubble out of Assassinate if not prevent it outright. At this point you're at like 50% health and the healer is at a low resource level with 80% health. They'll evntually kill you 2 minutes later. Against ranged class - They toss you + root, you either take the CC and then die, or you break it out of it and then they stun you and you die. If there is a wall behind you so that you're still within 10m after the initial toss, you'll usually win the fight, but this isn't reliable by any means. This is a good time to pop Recklessness but I suck at doing it, because this allows you to hit them back from range and the enemy might panic and use their stun on you from range (which is totally advantageous to you, since you can only do one Force Lightning in 6 seconds from range even with Recklessness). If they do that, you'll most likely win. Against melee class - Not counting guys coming out of stealth, this is roughly even but it's overall a disadvantage because due to lag there's a very good chance when you get them to 50% (and you'd be lower than 50% since our burst is from the 50% point), you'll get the dreaded "Effect Condition Failed" or "You're not facing target" when you attempt to do a Maul -> Assassinate -> Maul combo, and then you die horribly. Save your Low Slash/Electrocute for 50% because you might have some chance of actually getting a Maul off in the lag. Of course you could just die before they hit 50% waiting that long to use your CCs, but if you whiff on your Maul then you have absolutely no chance of winning. Edited January 3, 2012 by Astarica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthNorik Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 All these deception woes I keep hearing, Im soo happy I play madness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astarica Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 All these deception woes I keep hearing, Im soo happy I play madness. Deception doesn't have any attack that goes more than 10m right? If they're within 10m I can do fine since you can throw a Force Lightning and whatever that rooted you probably wears off by the time you're done. It's when you get tossed to >10m you literally have nothing to do except take a beating against any ranged class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glixx Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Are you even 50 yourself? You would know then that Overcharge Saber pops stealth, so you can't do that from stealth and still get off a Spike. Umm last time I checked, 30s ago, I can Overcharge Lightsaber, Recklessness and Relic while stealthed. I leveled and currently pvp as Deception. I have 35pct crit and 85pct crit bonus, Chain Shocks are just wicked, especially when followed up with a Discharge. I regularly crit Shock for 3.5k with a 2k chain shock proc behind it. Then throw out a Discharge that crits fairly ofthen and the person is already at 50pct or so. By then I usually have a Maul proc ready or Voltic x 2 and reset Shock. Fully talented out Shocks are just nasty and aren't directionally limited. Don't forget to use Deflect if you're being attack by saber or blaster fire and use your interrupts, you have 4 of them (Jolt, Low Blow, Electrocute and Overload). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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