So this is really it? I mean do I really have to be the one who goes? I pay for a game and I play it to have fun. Someone else is also paying for the game but he spends his time being mean to other people. They even go above and beyond the limits and harass others. So is that you answer? If I don't like it I should leave? Why? Why wont that other person leave instead? Why is he entitled to stay for being and a** and I have to turn off chat, ignore people or even leave the game?

 

In the real world if you find someone offending you even threatening etc you call the police, layer etc and they handle it. They deal with the person, put him to prison, fine him what ever. You pay taxes, police protects you. So I do not get why I have to be the one doing the compromises here.

Don't respond twice to the same post. It is old, and between then and now nobody else shares that opinion anyway.

Don't respond twice to the same post. It is old, and between then and now nobody else shares that opinion anyway.

Ah yeah, I didn't realize that, but I was reading a few other forum posts when I realized that many people actually write that "if you don't like it, leave" and then it came to me, that, why would I leave? They should leave, I am pretty sure there is like 90% nice people in this game and 10% of those bad ones. So why not kick out the 10%? Instead of chasing the 90% away?

There were other posts in my thread stating the same but this one was the newest.

Ah yeah, I didn't realize that, but I was reading a few other forum posts when I realized that many people actually write that "if you don't like it, leave" and then it came to me, that, why would I leave? They should leave, I am pretty sure there is like 90% nice people in this game and 10% of those bad ones. So why not kick out the 10%? Instead of chasing the 90% away?

I think they don't realize these numbers (90$ normal and 10% bad ones) are true because the bad guys cover 80% of the chat while the nice guys are quiet so they seem like a majority.

But, regardless, I believe an analogy to what they are saying is something like this: imagine a place where a serial killer roams free and there is no police. You say "innocents shouldn't suffer, the killer should" and you are, of course, correct when considering what SHOULD be. But in reality, there is no police and the killer will not kindly go simply because that is what he is supposed to do. So the people tell you "you can control only yourself, not the killer, thus your options are to leave or risk getting killed". I don't believe anyone actually justifies him and thinks you are the problem and you should go.

Of course, this is a temporarily correct solution. A real solution is to get a police...

Why does someone's WORDS ruin your good time? You know what I do when I don't agree with someone? I argue with them, ignore them, or move away from them.

But, regardless, I believe an analogy to what they are saying is something like this: imagine a place where a serial killer roams free and there is no police.

Gen chat troll talk = serial killer? :confused: seriously? free speech vs ACTUAL CRIME.

Gen chat troll talk = serial killer? :confused: seriously? free speech vs ACTUAL CRIME.

Analogy dude. Analogy. I am using an obviously extreme case with the same "form" (I lack the English for a better word) of our case to make my point clearer. I never compared actual murder to toxicity. I said an advice to ignore toxicity is like an advice to avoid the murderer, it doesn't justify the bad guy, it is just the best advice available for the victim.

Analogy dude. Analogy. I am using an obviously extreme case with the same "form" (I lack the English for a better word) of our case to make my point clearer. I never compared actual murder to toxicity. I said an advice to ignore toxicity is like an advice to avoid the murderer, it doesn't justify the bad guy, it is just the best advice available for the victim.

Completely false analogy, but whatever.

Completely false analogy, but whatever.

So ARE you saying that the problem is in the guys who are offended and they should go rather than having the offenders dealt with?

Your "free speech" is overrated them. Free speech is about one's right to express his opinion on things without getting silenced, and this to, is limited. Just try using your "free speech" to name and shame a hacker on these forums and you will get your post removed. Repeat and you will get silenced for a few days. All that is what happens if you prove beyond doubt (with videos included) that someone has done enough to deserve punishment and shame and yet this "free speech" about him is forbidden. So it is absolutely logical that going "free speech" only to make someone, whose only sin is being not so good in PVP, feel bad should be as punishable.

And the analogy to murder is good because like murder, the only intention of this "free speech" is causing harm to others. The fact that some people might be immune or be able to avoid this harm is doesn't change anything: If they are immune - totally useless words, if they aren't - totally non-beneficial harm. There is no scenario where there is any positive outcome.

Don't say it is to get the bads out of the warzone. Even in case they leave you are quite likely to just replace bads who are trying with trolls who AFK in corners or farm numbers without caring, and these will not leave because trolls usually are more immune to internet harassment.

It's not about being good or bad, it's about people who try vs people who don't.

It's about apathy, and it's about signing up for a team event and purposefully failing your team.

If you cultivated a pvp environment where no one was allowed to say anything bad about anyone else, it would kill pvp. It's been killing it slowly for awhile now, mainly because most people don't speak up.

This is a game mode where you stab other players, shoot them in the face with a pistol or shotgun, slice them apart with vibroblades, and burn them alive with flame throwers. Why? Because it's fun, and because if your team does better at stabbing, slicing, and burning the other team then you'll be rewarded with more stuff than they get. If you lose because someone refuses to even try, they deserve to be called out on it.

This is NOT your personal "safe space".

If you need a safe space, turn off all chat, go to your stronghold, and decorate it with tauntauns.

It's not about being good or bad, it's about people who try vs people who don't.

 

It's about apathy, and it's about signing up for a team event and purposefully failing your team.

 

If you cultivated a pvp environment where no one was allowed to say anything bad about anyone else, it would kill pvp. It's been killing it slowly for awhile now, mainly because most people don't speak up.

 

This is a game mode where you stab other players, shoot them in the face with a pistol or shotgun, slice them apart with vibroblades, and burn them alive with flame throwers. Why? Because it's fun, and because if your team does better at stabbing, slicing, and burning the other team then you'll be rewarded with more stuff than they get. If you lose because someone refuses to even try, they deserve to be called out on it.

 

This is NOT your personal "safe space".

 

If you need a safe space, turn off all chat, go to your stronghold, and decorate it with tauntauns.

Nobody said not to criticize. Nobody even said not to express anger when there is a valid reason for it. But keep proportions. Many people who do their best and want to win still get called in names that even the morons you describe (who don't even try) don't deserve to be called. Autism for example, is out of bounds. Always

So ARE you saying that the problem is in the guys who are offended and they should go rather than having the offenders dealt with?

Your "free speech" is overrated them. Free speech is about one's right to express his opinion on things without getting silenced, and this to, is limited. Just try using your "free speech" to name and shame a hacker on these forums and you will get your post removed. Repeat and you will get silenced for a few days. All that is what happens if you prove beyond doubt (with videos included) that someone has done enough to deserve punishment and shame and yet this "free speech" about him is forbidden. So it is absolutely logical that going "free speech" only to make someone, whose only sin is being not so good in PVP, feel bad should be as punishable.

 

And the analogy to murder is good because like murder, the only intention of this "free speech" is causing harm to others. The fact that some people might be immune or be able to avoid this harm is doesn't change anything: If they are immune - totally useless words, if they aren't - totally non-beneficial harm. There is no scenario where there is any positive outcome.

Don't say it is to get the bads out of the warzone. Even in case they leave you are quite likely to just replace bads who are trying with trolls who AFK in corners or farm numbers without caring, and these will not leave because trolls usually are more immune to internet harassment.

Perhaps I should have used "words" instead of "free speech," because it has enabled you to steer the conversation away from your poor analogy of WORDS vs MURDER. I understand that there are forum rules. And I understand that there fewer enforced rules in game than on this forum.

Nobody said not to criticize. Nobody even said not to express anger when there is a valid reason for it. But keep proportions. Many people who do their best and want to win still get called in names that even the morons you describe (who don't even try) don't deserve to be called. Autism for example, is out of bounds. Always

Autism isn't censored, so no it does not seem to be out of bounds, except for SOME folks who deem it to be socially unacceptable.

Perhaps I should have used "words" instead of "free speech," because it has enabled you to steer the conversation away from your poor analogy of WORDS vs MURDER. I understand that there are forum rules. And I understand that there fewer enforced rules in game than on this forum.

 

Autism isn't censored, so no it does not seem to be out of bounds, except for SOME folks who deem it to be socially unacceptable.

The whole discussion here is about the fact that the rules aren't enough, not on paper and not in practical enforcement. I sure hope your moral compass isn't solely "don't do what is punishable by law".

I will use as an example this poor excuse of "not censored" = "fine". The censorship in this game absolutely sucks, and even a better censorship system which doesn't let you get away with "FU.CK YOU", will still not be able to censor everything that definitely aren't fine and are known as bannable such as:

"Death to all <insert whatever nation/religion/race>"

Anything anyhow related to supporting Nazism or calling other individuals or groups Nazis. The word "Nazi" itself isn't censored.

Absolutely explicit adult content which smoothy uses only words that have casual meanings. A manually censored (and automatically uncensored) example below. Do not open with kids around:

The list above goes on. Basically, nothing that needs to be censored is censored except for some explicit letter combinations that are 90% of the times associated with human reproduction. The censorship is not against people who make even the slightest attempt to get bad stuff written purposedly. It is merely there so that sensitive people who happen to encounter people who say "**** yeah" instead of "hell yeah" and stuff like that (without any bad intentions on the "profanity user"s side. It is simply in their manner of speech) don't have to see it so constantly. This is also the reason why even if you get 5 words censored in every chat message you send, you don't even receive a warning, and it is probably not flagged anywhere. The filter is NOT in any manner an automated enforcement for speakers. It is more like an optional umbrella for listeners (a very small umbrella, with holes).

It's not about being good or bad, it's about people who try vs people who don't.

 

It's about apathy, and it's about signing up for a team event and purposefully failing your team.

 

If you cultivated a pvp environment where no one was allowed to say anything bad about anyone else, it would kill pvp. It's been killing it slowly for awhile now, mainly because most people don't speak up.

I'm sorry, but people randomly telling someone they're bad after a match the team just got stomped in does not inspire anyone to play more or get better. It represents the community as a bunch of abusive basement dwellers, and earns you a place on ignore lists.

Anyone who plays games because they like to be abused in chat is self-harming, trolling, or both.

This is NOT your personal "safe space".

It isn't yours, either. If having to treat other players in a civilized manner triggers you, stop playing multiplayer games.

I have autism, asperger's to be exact, and I carry reg wins on a regular basis and are more than capable of winning 1v1s and group play. I am offended that you view autism as a negative.

PS: I know it kills your inner child to not be a dick 24/7 but no matter what you tell yourself to sleep at night, teaching someone how to do something in a civilized way will always be more effective then telling them to kys and uninstall.

my dad always said, "you catch more flies with honey than vinegar"

If having to treat other players in a civilized manner triggers you, stop playing multiplayer games.

Your whole post is great, but this one line is just perfect. Far more true than "if you can't handle my language - go away".

As if offensive feedback ever helped people improve anything. If we made a survey about reactions to such stuff, I think it would be a grand majority ignoring you completely or even talking back, and the situation not improving, a few getting insulted and leaving (also doesn't put you in any better spot) and the few of the few of the few maybe learning something.

I wonder how well are people who give "corrective feedback" that offensively handle raising younger siblings or children.

I am offended that you view autism as a negative.

Calling someone something is usually a twofold insult. The first part is implicit - you say that you think that something is an insulting adjective (state, title or whatever), and the second is explicit - you say that your target deserves this adjective.

[My English wasn't good enough to avoid repeating the same root word "insult" quite often below. So it will look like I was trying to make things sound confusing, but I simply didn't find a way to avoid it ]

People who do share the adjective (in this case, autists) get to be insulted by both parts, and the first one is usually worse than the second (some would say they are insulted "on behalf" of their group). People who don't (our case: non-autist), might either be insulted because they share the negative opinion about the adjective or merely by the fact that as far as the insulter is concerned, he tried to insult them, even though they (the target) don't necessarily consider it an insult (just as those who share the adjective don't always consider their state a bad thing).

Let's say a non-jew was mad at another non-jew and called him a jew as an insult, in the presence of a jew. Sharing a race with Albert Einstein is not such a terrible thing, but it will still make sense if both the jew and the target will feel insulted, regardless of whether does any of them think being a Jew is a bad thing or not, because of what I said above: the jew is offended because his state was used as an offense and the target is offended because the as far as the offender is concerned, he called him a "bad" thing. The only one you know for a certainty that he considers being a jew as a bad thing is the offender.

Point is, don't take the discussion here as proof that everyone here considers autism such negatively (I have some autistic friends too. Never got myself tested but I AM capable of surviving 40 hours without seeing another person, using the internet or going nuts, so who knows...). All you can know is that the people who use it as an insult think so.

By the way, in case anyone wondered due to my example, I do NOT in any way consider being a jew as a bad thing, or being black, or eastern or whatever, for that matter. My "calling someone something" is thus quite limited and is seldom used, and when it is, it would probably be something generically insulting like "moron" (unlike medical conditions or nationalism, nobody classifies himself as "moron" or "stupid", and then be insulted on behalf of all "stupids". There is no such group of people). More of a "may something bad happen to you" guy, when necessary. Never found that necessity in video games, TBH...

long wall of text

You talk in circles over the most meaningless things. It's quite tiresome.

But to cherry pick your excessively long post, "Jews" are not a race, FYI.

Also, murder =/= bad words.

The community does not need BioWare police enforcement, it needs polite players to lead by example. Asking for a police force to enforce rules in chat is a lazy solution to something that permeates the entirety of the internet. On one end you have the "I'm offended" Twitterheads, and on the other end of the spectrum you have edgelords that think racism is funny. The culture of the internet needs a makeover. It starts with you.

You talk in circles over the most meaningless things. It's quite tiresome.

 

But to cherry pick your excessively long post, "Jews" are not a race, FYI.

Define "talk in circles". According to your "cherry picking" you are referring to my post to Seterade which is a sidetrack (about "we don't all see it as an offense") from my main topic (about "the bad mouthed are the problem. not the. So:

1. I didn't repeat anything because it was a different topic. IDK what your "circles" are about.

2. If it is all meaningless and tiresome for you, perhaps it was because it wasn't for written for you and is unrelated to anything you ever said. IDK why did you keep reading as soon as you realized this...

As for "jews are not a race", whatever, I think I mentioned my English isn't perfect. I didn't know a better word and in my language, it sounded fine so I went with that word. It felt more accurate than "nation". I sincerely wanna hear the better word for it so I can use it from now on.

Also, murder =/= bad words.

You said it already and I responded by explaining it was an analogy and that analogies are worthless if they aren't in more extreme than the original. You avoided that point ever since and are now repeating the exact same thing without further reasoning and without actually responding to my response. This is the definition of "walking in circles".

The community does not need BioWare police enforcement, it needs polite players to lead by example. Asking for a police force to enforce rules in chat is a lazy solution to something that permeates the entirety of the internet. On one end you have the "I'm offended" Twitterheads, and on the other end of the spectrum you have edgelords that think racism is funny. The culture of the internet needs a makeover. It starts with you.

Lead by example sometimes works when there are two ways to do a thing and you do the good one. You can't lead by example in a case where the bad thing is something you do, and the good thing is something you don't do. Even if only 0.1% of the population would use heavy profanity, they will never notice the "example" of others who don't say it. If this kind of "example" worked, then there would be no thieves IRL because most people don't steal. There would be no criminals at all because most people are (mostly) honest.

The current player population already "leads by example" by not being part of this loud minority, so why are they still here?

Like IRL, the need of police is not ideal, but an unfortunate necessity that the bad guys don't learn and don't care to learn otherwise unless there are consequences. There is no difference here. I don't disagree that your ideal is better. But we need practicality here.

We don't even need moderators to actively monitor chat, they simply have to actively monitor chat reports and have the ability to respond on the spot and not 2 days later. You would then say that badmouthed will report "garbage chat" and keep them busy from responding to real problems? For that, we can implement "the shepherd who cried wolf". Report enough innocent chat and your report is off for a while

jewish is a culture/religion. it can be misconstrued as a race because generaly its members are passed down by bloodline (mom was jewish) but you can become jewish without blood relation.

there are specific features that are common among jewish people, like curly hair or larger noses, but that is because the jewish faith originated in a part of the world where that was common.

jewish is a culture/religion. it can be misconstrued as a race because generaly its members are passed down by bloodline (mom was jewish) but you can become jewish without blood relation.

 

there are specific features that are common among jewish people, like curly hair or larger noses, but that is because the jewish faith originated in a part of the world where that was common.

I know these stuff. It is the specific word, "culture", that I was missing. Thanks, nonetheless

Wait... are we insulting each other in a thread thats about not insulting each other?

We all do our best to lead by example

Wait... are we insulting each other in a thread thats about not insulting each other?

What was that, math nerd?

What was that, math nerd?

Nerds rule

I'm sorry, but people randomly telling someone they're bad after a match the team just got stomped in does not inspire anyone to play more or get better. It represents the community as a bunch of abusive basement dwellers, and earns you a place on ignore lists.

 

Anyone who plays games because they like to be abused in chat is self-harming, trolling, or both.

 

It isn't yours, either. If having to treat other players in a civilized manner triggers you, stop playing multiplayer games.

Nothing random about it. If you're pvping to a minimal extent (aka not afk, calling out when defending, and at least somewhat playing objectives) then you're fine.

You think when I call out M****ode for going afk for the umpteenth time, it's me thinking I have a safe space? When she replies that I'm famous for never playing objectives (I almost always have the top 1 or 2 objective points) and says I'm only in it for the kills (literally, while I'm defending nodes in tank gear) that I'm feeling safe?

Calling out these people is ugly, because it's always a toxic response. That's because they're already behaving with a high degree of toxicity.

Nothing about calling out bad behavior in pvp is safe. I accept that. Why is it that I can deal with that, but a fragile snowflake gets offended at the one thing that offends them and it's an issue. There should be a short list of words that are always interpreted as genuinely hurtful, and those can be forbidden. Autism shouldn't be on that list.

Cultures are difficult to manipulate/change by a single individual, group, or even a generation. Cultures have momentum, and you're either working within that, or you're wasting your time. Gaming culture is exactly the same way. Accept it or don't play team games on the internet.

You're going to get trash talk if you're really really bad. You're going to get trash talk if you're really really good. You'll also get trash talk, from me, when I catch you afking, or not calling out when your node gets attacked. If you can't deal with that, put me on ignore. Just be aware everyone in ops chat is going to know about it.

Online gaming is the last bastion of the kind of socially maladjusted people that use a mental and emotional disability as an insult. (or race or sexual orientation or ancient monotheistic religion) . The irony to me, especially with the "what an autistic *******" comments, is the lack of social awareness and emotional intelligence points toward a certain spectrum of disorders.

I'm no saint online, I make fun and trash talk people, but only about their skill in game. I report any and all use of slurs in game chat. Including from people I've grouped with. Then I don't group them anymore.

Incidentally, I don't have any friends be left in game...