Before I begin, let me preface by saying - there will ALWAYS be those who don't WANT others to have what they have. Think about it like the grandpa who complains he had to walk to school naked both ways in winter and liked it, because kids now can stay warmer taking the bus. It's jealously. This is an MMO. No one should ever assume exclusivity in perpetuity. Having it be exclusive this long is ENOUGH, as is getting first crack.

But what I am about to suggest will also solve that issue of the haves trying to keep things away from the have nots for good, while also making it fair across the board going forward.

My Suggestion:

Leverage the Reputation system already in the game to keep track of a player's "time played". For this reputation, the idea is that a player will "level" to the next level after 2 months of play.

Then there will be a Subscriber reputation vendor where a player can purchase past rewards for credits.

I see the initial breakdown like this:

Outsider (2 months total time invested): Subscriber Reward Pets

Newcomer (4 months total time invested): Subscriber Reward Crystals

Friend (6 months total time invested): Subscriber Rewards Weapons and Armor

Hero (8 months total time invested): Subscriber Rewards Vehicles

Champion (10 months total time invested): Subscriber Rewards Companions

Legend (12 months total time invested): HK Bonus Chapter

The idea here as well, is that you can then also use this method to reward items that are no longer in game, like Light vs Dark (pets, gear, and Master Ranos), or the old Chevin event. I wouldn't even be opposed to collectors edition exclusives and (if legal permits it) the old Razer bonus green-black lightsaber crystals to be added (although perhaps in those cases, lock them behind legend).

The beauty of this is, if anyone wants to complain about opening up access - guess what? I am both a beta player who has played the game this entire time, I have most of these rewards anyway, and I also purchased the Collectors Edition of SWTOR. And I say open it all up to subscribers. I have had my exclusive time with this stuff - time to spread the fun, and at least this way, this makes players earn these items. And because they are sinking time and sub money into it - I wouldn't then put them on vendors for stupid-high prices. Maybe max out at 1 m for the HK bonus chapter. People at that point would have put in their sub time to the game. Plus, then going forward, any subscriber rewards can be added to the vendor.

And to make it fair and easy, just make it clear everyone starts from 0 when this is kicked off. That will give those who had the sub rewards previously a little more time of exclusivity, and not hassle the devs with having to figure out how long people subbed beforehand.

Thoughts?

You'll get some push-back on including Master Ranos since she wasn't (exclusively*) a subscriber reward, and I think all of the old Chevin event items are already on sale in the Cartel Bazaar, otherwise I think this suggestion meets the original intent of being a sub reward, which is to entice subscriptions and thus generate revenue for the game.

* You had to be a sub to hit some of the DvL achievements, but she wasn't specifically a reward for being a sub.

... I think this suggestion meets the original intent of being a sub reward, which is to entice subscriptions and thus generate revenue for the game.

For this year's Casino event, you can buy last year's Gamorean Guard companion for Golden certificates. This led many people to not try to get this year's companion, but to just wait to buy it next year for GCs.

SPECIAL OFFER - Subscribe now and get an exclusive minipet! (Or just stay f2p and buy it from the GTN later).

Offering people exclusive rewards for something, and then later releasing it, may have a negative affect, much like getting the Gamorean Guard may have a negative affect on the amount of credits sunk.

For this year's Casino event, you can buy last year's Gamorean Guard companion for Golden certificates. This led many people to not try to get this year's companion, but to just wait to buy it next year for GCs.

 

SPECIAL OFFER - Subscribe now and get an exclusive minipet! (Or just stay f2p and buy it from the GTN later).

Offering people exclusive rewards for something, and then later releasing it, may have a negative affect, much like getting the Gamorean Guard may have a negative affect on the amount of credits sunk.

Yes, let's equate an in-game achievable item with a low probability of acquisition with items that were given away for free for the oh-so-onerous task of being subscribed for a day. Because no one resorts to hyperbole on these boards.

The rest of your post is nonsensical since it has absolutely nothing to do with ZionHalcyon's suggestion.

But what I am about to suggest will also solve that issue of the haves trying to keep things away from the have nots for good, while also making it fair across the board going forward.

I'm not really sure you've ended up meeting these goals, not least because there's an assumption that "exclusives are bad" is axiomatically true, when it isn't. It isn't *false* either, mostly because it's just an opinion.

And the definition of "fair" is somewhat subjective. I can see how, for example, it might be considered unfair to people who (as some did) subscribed for those six and a half months required to get "Shroud of Memory" specifically so that they would get it. One of those people even said on the forums that if he had known it would be possible later to get it without subscribing for *those* *specific* six months, he'd have dropped sub for that time. Is your proposal fair to him?

Leverage the Reputation system already in the game to keep track of a player's "time played". For this reputation, the idea is that a player will "level" to the next level after 2 months of play.

Don't get hung up on implementation details, especially not ones that aren't relevant to the feature. The rep system cannot, as such, track time played *at*all*. Just specify: "have a counter that tracks a player's 'time played' and advances the player up the reward ladder as it increases". Let BioWare worry about how to implement it.

Then there will be a Subscriber reputation vendor where a player can purchase past rewards for credits.

Unless the amounts of credits are painfully high, this essentially means "for free", and in any event it favours people who play a *lot* (and strays into wobbly terrain at the edge of "fair" as a result).

The idea here as well, is that you can then also use this method to reward items that are no longer in game, like Light vs Dark (pets, gear, and Master Ranos), or the old Chevin event. I wouldn't even be opposed to collectors edition exclusives and (if legal permits it) the old Razer bonus green-black lightsaber crystals to be added (although perhaps in those cases, lock them behind legend).

Legal almost certainly won't allow the Razer crystals to be offered any other way. The DvL rewards were *gameplay* rewards (and in the case of the top two tiers - Ranos was for the second-to-top tier - *substantial* amounts of gameplay). Again, you haven't really explained why "exclusive" automatically means "bad".

And to make it fair and easy, just make it clear everyone starts from 0 when this is kicked off. That will give those who had the sub rewards previously a little more time of exclusivity, and not hassle the devs with having to figure out how long people subbed beforehand.

 

Thoughts?

How is it fair that the six years I've been playing, four of which are subscriber years, don't count for anything? (OK, the year or so since the last subscriber bonus where I got more than yet another recoloured Astromech minipet... The same principle applies.) (Oh, and the red droid minipet I got for logging in while BioWare was supporting some foreign charity I've never heard of doesn't count either.)

Now for some practical considerations.

How do you define "time played"? Does it count if I log in for a minute on one character every 27 days? How much does it count for if I do that? Is it based on counting the number of hours I'm logged in? (If so, how is that fair to people with, like, you know, jobs?) Your proposed system lives or dies by the answer to this question, so I'm disappointed that you didn't address it.

I'm not really sure you've ended up meeting these goals, not least because there's an assumption that "exclusives are bad" is axiomatically true, when it isn't. It isn't *false* either, mostly because it's just an opinion.

 

And the definition of "fair" is somewhat subjective. I can see how, for example, it might be considered unfair to people who (as some did) subscribed for those six and a half months required to get "Shroud of Memory" specifically so that they would get it. One of those people even said on the forums that if he had known it would be possible later to get it without subscribing for *those* *specific* six months, he'd have dropped sub for that time. Is your proposal fair to him?

 

Don't get hung up on implementation details, especially not ones that aren't relevant to the feature. The rep system cannot, as such, track time played *at*all*. Just specify: "have a counter that tracks a player's 'time played' and advances the player up the reward ladder as it increases". Let BioWare worry about how to implement it.

 

Unless the amounts of credits are painfully high, this essentially means "for free", and in any event it favours people who play a *lot* (and strays into wobbly terrain at the edge of "fair" as a result).

 

Legal almost certainly won't allow the Razer crystals to be offered any other way. The DvL rewards were *gameplay* rewards (and in the case of the top two tiers - Ranos was for the second-to-top tier - *substantial* amounts of gameplay). Again, you haven't really explained why "exclusive" automatically means "bad".

 

How is it fair that the six years I've been playing, four of which are subscriber years, don't count for anything? (OK, the year or so since the last subscriber bonus where I got more than yet another recoloured Astromech minipet... The same principle applies.) (Oh, and the red droid minipet I got for logging in while BioWare was supporting some foreign charity I've never heard of doesn't count either.)

 

Now for some practical considerations.

 

How do you define "time played"? Does it count if I log in for a minute on one character every 27 days? How much does it count for if I do that? Is it based on counting the number of hours I'm logged in? (If so, how is that fair to people with, like, you know, jobs?) Your proposed system lives or dies by the answer to this question, so I'm disappointed that you didn't address it.

Time played does not seem like a particularly good measure. I would think time subscribed would be better and we know BioWare can tell how long people have been subscribed. I personally think that making everyone start at 0 is ... less than fair. Being a loyal subscriber should count for something.

Saying you have a "solution" suggests there is a problem. But, there is no "problem" other than some people's desire to get stuff they didn't earn.

That 6 yr old who couldnt play at that age is now 13 and should have every right to an opportunity to acquire or achieve previously offered rewards. You cant automatically assume that someone who didnt get something during its origin chose not to get it.

I think this system is a bit too limited by using the reputation framework. I've always thought, however, that subscriber rewards should unlock based on total subscribed time. It really just needs to be something tracked on the backend with an in-game notification every time a new reward is unlocked.

This would allow the devs to introduce an unlimited number of rewards over time. They would also be able to introduce the rewards in a manner that allows people to get them instantly on resubscribing as long as they have met the total subscribed time requirement for a particular reward.

For example, they could open the HK bonus chapter to anyone that has total sub time of 3 months or 10 years. Any player that meets this requirement at any time in their subscription would have the chapter unlocked.

New rewards could be set with low or high time thresholds based on how loyal the players must be to receive the reward.

Time played does not seem like a particularly good measure. I would think time subscribed would be better and we know BioWare can tell how long people have been subscribed. I personally think that making everyone start at 0 is ... less than fair. Being a loyal subscriber should count for something.

Time played would be however the devs define it. I know reputation doesn't track "time played", but if the developers used something to track it, and put it in the context of reputation (even if the system behind it was totally different), the players would instantly understand it as they are already familiar with the reputation system.

And for those who asked, yes, I suggested they use this as a way to release some items that weren't subscriber rewards, yet in a way they still had to be "earned". I know Chevin items are on a vendor now, but they are stupid hard to pick up right now.

And for those who insist this isn't a problem to be solved, the developers disagree with you, so pound sand:

https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=9726484#edit9726484

This conversation is certainly timely as it is a topic we have been revisiting internally as well. We have been actively talking about how, when, and if it would be possible to get make the HK chapter available again in some form. Whether that is a sub reward, sold on the market, etc.

 

Here is the thing we are trying to be sensitive to. Individuals who have it right now subbed for a number of months to get it and so if/when we bring it back, we need to make sure that we do it in a way that is fair to what they went through to get it. Ex: if it was a sub reward it would likely require multiple months of sub, or, if it was in the market it would be sold for a premium.

 

There is a lot of sensitivity on both sides. We agree that we would love to have a way for players who don't have it to get it (since it is story content, afterall). But it has to be done in a way that is fair to those who already have it. Let us know your thoughts (for, or against) and I can make sure all of your feedback is captured in our on-going discussion.

 

As a note I won't likely have an update on this in the short-tem, but as soon as I have any details I will pass them on.

 

-eric

I think a straight up system where you get a point for every month you subscribe, with a shop with all of the old items and a whole bunch of new ones to purchase would be better. That way people could pick and choose what they get. They can save up for the big items or stock up on the little ones. New subscribers would have access to everything and old subscribers would have fresh new things to pick from.

I like this idea. It's simple and offers things for both new and old subscribers. I also think any actual in game items need to be legacy bound and there should also be consumables of some sort (this is a problem with the Dark/Light vendors currently).

OMG some of us, subs in this game are so annoying.

(Sub here)

Make able to get HK-55 bonus chapter and companion for those who weren't able to get him somehow (sub is best option) and those people who get him in time give some rewards. I don't know what rewards, I'm not working in BioWare but some goods to make them happy, even maybe a next month, 2 or even 6 months much much cheaper sub price or even 1 or 2 (6 is not possible I think) months sub for free. Then they will get less money or nothing this time from loyal subs, but will get from new who want those companions HK, Nico and Shae if I remember correctly lot of people want too.

Nothing should be exclusive for ever, but compensate for those loyal subs.

That's is all.

OMG some of us, subs in this game are so annoying.

(Sub here)

Make able to get HK-55 bonus chapter and companion for those who weren't able to get him somehow (sub is best option) and those people who get him in time give some rewards. I don't know what rewards, I'm not working in BioWare but some goods to make them happy, even maybe a next month, 2 or even 6 months much much cheaper sub price or even 1 or 2 (6 is not possible I think) months sub for free. Then they will get less money or nothing this time from loyal subs, but will get from new who want those companions HK, Nico and Shae if I remember correctly lot of people want too.

Nothing should be exclusive for ever, but compensate for those loyal subs.

That's is all.

I have been a sub from the beginning. We've had exclusivity long enough. I am all for opening it up based on time subbed.

Before I begin, let me preface by saying - there will ALWAYS be those who don't WANT others to have what they have. Think about it like the grandpa who complains he had to walk to school naked both ways in winter and liked it, because kids now can stay warmer taking the bus. It's jealously. This is an MMO. No one should ever assume exclusivity in perpetuity. Having it be exclusive this long is ENOUGH, as is getting first crack.

 

But what I am about to suggest will also solve that issue of the haves trying to keep things away from the have nots for good, while also making it fair across the board going forward.

 

My Suggestion:

 

Leverage the Reputation system already in the game to keep track of a player's "time played". For this reputation, the idea is that a player will "level" to the next level after 2 months of play.

 

Then there will be a Subscriber reputation vendor where a player can purchase past rewards for credits.

 

I see the initial breakdown like this:

 

Outsider (2 months total time invested): Subscriber Reward Pets

Newcomer (4 months total time invested): Subscriber Reward Crystals

Friend (6 months total time invested): Subscriber Rewards Weapons and Armor

Hero (8 months total time invested): Subscriber Rewards Vehicles

Champion (10 months total time invested): Subscriber Rewards Companions

Legend (12 months total time invested): HK Bonus Chapter

 

The idea here as well, is that you can then also use this method to reward items that are no longer in game, like Light vs Dark (pets, gear, and Master Ranos), or the old Chevin event. I wouldn't even be opposed to collectors edition exclusives and (if legal permits it) the old Razer bonus green-black lightsaber crystals to be added (although perhaps in those cases, lock them behind legend).

 

The beauty of this is, if anyone wants to complain about opening up access - guess what? I am both a beta player who has played the game this entire time, I have most of these rewards anyway, and I also purchased the Collectors Edition of SWTOR. And I say open it all up to subscribers. I have had my exclusive time with this stuff - time to spread the fun, and at least this way, this makes players earn these items. And because they are sinking time and sub money into it - I wouldn't then put them on vendors for stupid-high prices. Maybe max out at 1 m for the HK bonus chapter. People at that point would have put in their sub time to the game. Plus, then going forward, any subscriber rewards can be added to the vendor.

 

And to make it fair and easy, just make it clear everyone starts from 0 when this is kicked off. That will give those who had the sub rewards previously a little more time of exclusivity, and not hassle the devs with having to figure out how long people subbed beforehand.

 

Thoughts?

I like the reputation idea and vendor. They could even put old coded cantina packs on the vendors. The ones where you might get a dye drop, pet drop or speeders, etc.

It could also have a reputation currency or just the reputation + in game credits. Which would help Bioware add another credit sink to the game.

This reputation could also be done retroactively by Bioware adding up every Alt’s play time on each server during subscription time.

Ie, /played will tell you how many days, hours and minutes each Alt has played. And I’m sure Bioware would have their own tools to track between /played sub time and /played F2P or preferred.

I’ve had two proper sub accounts in my days. This is my newest, but even this one has been consistently subbed long enough to have 90% of all the rewards this game has ever had. My first account has every reward until 2018.

I’ve never been completely unsubbed since launch. I’ve always had at least one subbed with no break.

It would be awesome if I could obtain the same rewards I might have missed out on for both those subs considering I’ve over 16,000 hours /played time in the game at last count.

I would love an actual “time played”reputation that tracked it all. They could even expand the reputation system further for time /played in certain aspects of the game. It could break it down for pvp, pve vanilla, pve chapters, flash points and operation.

I know we have achievements, but they don’t really paint the whole picture or how you might specialise in one part of the game. Anyone can get all the achievements if they are a chievo Hunter and some of them are not that hard to get.

So, I think the reputation could go even higher or a step further than just how long you’ve been subbed. It could also go on your actual play time in the game. This would be a complimentary reputation system to go along with the sub reputation and rewards system you’ve suggested.

And for this extra reputation I’m suggesting, I’d be happy with some new purchasable titles and access to buying other items currently locked behind cartel certificates. This would encourage people to actually play and Bioware could still make the vendor rewards cost a tonne of credits, which helps them add another good credit sink.

There would be a qualifier though, the time /played reputation only tracks you when you are subbed. If you aren’t subbed, it doesn’t track or there is a F2P reputation one too that only gives the most basic rewards.

I know this is Star Wars and not Doctor Who, but I’d love a rep title called “Time Lord” to show how dedicated I’ve been to the game. Or you could take a page out of Guardians of the Galaxy and have “Star Lord”

Time played does not seem like a particularly good measure. I would think time subscribed would be better and we know BioWare can tell how long people have been subscribed. I personally think that making everyone start at 0 is ... less than fair. Being a loyal subscriber should count for something.

Why not both. One for subbed time for sub rewards and one for time played with seperate rewards. Ie access to certain items locked behind cartel certificates and other reputations.

Imagine if you could get a time /played rep lvl above legend. I’ve suggested “Time Lord” or “Star Lord”. This would be solely based on your sub time /played.

If you hit that highest /played reputation lvl, it would open up access to all other reputation vendors and items. The only cost would be credits. Which could and probably should be a lot higher than if you purchased them under the regular reputations for each one.

Why not be able to buy same things in "Time Played" and "Sub Time", but in sub version you need less rep points to gain a next rep level nad for less prices.

And FTP time play should be counting too, there are FTP players that played as this game a long long time, so why they would be not able to be rewarded for it?

Why not be able to buy same things in "Time Played" and "Sub Time", but in sub version you need less rep points to gain a next rep level nad for less prices.

And FTP time play should be counting too, there are FTP players that played as this game a long long time, so why they would be not able to be rewarded for it?

I don’t think FTP should be counted for the main reason that the sub rewards have a basic monetary value because you had to pay to get them.

Reminds me of SWG vet rewards. Shocked after 7 years there still is no system in place like this.

Crate of free resource

Do I need to say anything more

And FTP time play should be counting too, there are FTP players that played as this game a long long time, so why they would be not able to be rewarded for it?

The whole point of subscriber rewards is to reward the people who are actually providing the capital necessary to keep the game alive. It's a loyalty program for PAYING CUSTOMERS. The game doesn't need any more incentives to freeload.

I'm aware of this, but still I think it should be taken under consideration.

But more importantly, as it was said earielier, HK is strory content so it should be able to get by the others. I haven't played expansions yet, but Nico and Shae is story content too, right? If yes, they should return too, if not then this can be left as it is.

Good idea on working to make exclusive rewards available in some form that everyone can get it any time for an effort that mimics or is higher in requirement than what it used to be in the past. Not sure if I agree with "time played" but rather with "months subscribed". If HK chapter took 180? days of subscription then any account that has that many days of sub should be able to buy it via credits from this special vendor that is unlocked during the active subscription (account wide unlock and price that should match the account wide unlock). That way those who missed it have to pay more on top of the sub time than those who received it exclusively in the past for the sub time alone.

As for the game activities that were not sub rewards, maybe repeat those game activities via seasons/years, like Master Ranos DvL etc.