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So, I have a solution to propose to the devs for those who missed sub/event rewards

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
So, I have a solution to propose to the devs for those who missed sub/event rewards

ZionHalcyon's Avatar


ZionHalcyon
07.03.2019 , 02:06 PM | #1
Before I begin, let me preface by saying - there will ALWAYS be those who don't WANT others to have what they have. Think about it like the grandpa who complains he had to walk to school naked both ways in winter and liked it, because kids now can stay warmer taking the bus. It's jealously. This is an MMO. No one should ever assume exclusivity in perpetuity. Having it be exclusive this long is ENOUGH, as is getting first crack.

But what I am about to suggest will also solve that issue of the haves trying to keep things away from the have nots for good, while also making it fair across the board going forward.

My Suggestion:

Leverage the Reputation system already in the game to keep track of a player's "time played". For this reputation, the idea is that a player will "level" to the next level after 2 months of play.

Then there will be a Subscriber reputation vendor where a player can purchase past rewards for credits.

I see the initial breakdown like this:

Outsider (2 months total time invested): Subscriber Reward Pets
Newcomer (4 months total time invested): Subscriber Reward Crystals
Friend (6 months total time invested): Subscriber Rewards Weapons and Armor
Hero (8 months total time invested): Subscriber Rewards Vehicles
Champion (10 months total time invested): Subscriber Rewards Companions
Legend (12 months total time invested): HK Bonus Chapter

The idea here as well, is that you can then also use this method to reward items that are no longer in game, like Light vs Dark (pets, gear, and Master Ranos), or the old Chevin event. I wouldn't even be opposed to collectors edition exclusives and (if legal permits it) the old Razer bonus green-black lightsaber crystals to be added (although perhaps in those cases, lock them behind legend).

The beauty of this is, if anyone wants to complain about opening up access - guess what? I am both a beta player who has played the game this entire time, I have most of these rewards anyway, and I also purchased the Collectors Edition of SWTOR. And I say open it all up to subscribers. I have had my exclusive time with this stuff - time to spread the fun, and at least this way, this makes players earn these items. And because they are sinking time and sub money into it - I wouldn't then put them on vendors for stupid-high prices. Maybe max out at 1 m for the HK bonus chapter. People at that point would have put in their sub time to the game. Plus, then going forward, any subscriber rewards can be added to the vendor.

And to make it fair and easy, just make it clear everyone starts from 0 when this is kicked off. That will give those who had the sub rewards previously a little more time of exclusivity, and not hassle the devs with having to figure out how long people subbed beforehand.

Thoughts?

IoNonSoEVero's Avatar


IoNonSoEVero
07.03.2019 , 03:05 PM | #2
I think this is a really good, and really fair, idea.

JediQuaker's Avatar


JediQuaker
07.03.2019 , 03:25 PM | #3
Saying you have a "solution" suggests there is a problem. But, there is no "problem" other than some people's desire to get stuff they didn't earn.
Hold water, a sieve may not, but hold another sieve, it will - Yoda..

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ceryxp's Avatar


ceryxp
07.03.2019 , 03:27 PM | #4
You'll get some push-back on including Master Ranos since she wasn't (exclusively*) a subscriber reward, and I think all of the old Chevin event items are already on sale in the Cartel Bazaar, otherwise I think this suggestion meets the original intent of being a sub reward, which is to entice subscriptions and thus generate revenue for the game.

* You had to be a sub to hit some of the DvL achievements, but she wasn't specifically a reward for being a sub.
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JediQuaker's Avatar


JediQuaker
07.03.2019 , 03:52 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by ceryxp View Post
... I think this suggestion meets the original intent of being a sub reward, which is to entice subscriptions and thus generate revenue for the game.
For this year's Casino event, you can buy last year's Gamorean Guard companion for Golden certificates. This led many people to not try to get this year's companion, but to just wait to buy it next year for GCs.

SPECIAL OFFER - Subscribe now and get an exclusive minipet! (Or just stay f2p and buy it from the GTN later).
Offering people exclusive rewards for something, and then later releasing it, may have a negative affect, much like getting the Gamorean Guard may have a negative affect on the amount of credits sunk.
Hold water, a sieve may not, but hold another sieve, it will - Yoda..

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DuchessKristania's Avatar


DuchessKristania
07.03.2019 , 03:56 PM | #6
This is actually a pretty interesting idea. I have some of the sub rewards, but missed out on others because they happened during the dark days of a broken computer and no money to get a new one, lol. There will always be those who won't be happy with the idea of anything coming back though. At the end of the day, no matter how this issue is dealt with, someone will be unhappy.
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ceryxp's Avatar


ceryxp
07.03.2019 , 04:04 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by JediQuaker View Post
For this year's Casino event, you can buy last year's Gamorean Guard companion for Golden certificates. This led many people to not try to get this year's companion, but to just wait to buy it next year for GCs.

SPECIAL OFFER - Subscribe now and get an exclusive minipet! (Or just stay f2p and buy it from the GTN later).
Offering people exclusive rewards for something, and then later releasing it, may have a negative affect, much like getting the Gamorean Guard may have a negative affect on the amount of credits sunk.
Yes, let's equate an in-game achievable item with a low probability of acquisition with items that were given away for free for the oh-so-onerous task of being subscribed for a day. Because no one resorts to hyperbole on these boards.

The rest of your post is nonsensical since it has absolutely nothing to do with ZionHalcyon's suggestion.
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TonyTricicolo's Avatar


TonyTricicolo
07.03.2019 , 04:13 PM | #8
Reminds me of SWG vet rewards. Shocked after 7 years there still is no system in place like this.
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SteveTheCynic's Avatar


SteveTheCynic
07.03.2019 , 04:30 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by ZionHalcyon View Post
But what I am about to suggest will also solve that issue of the haves trying to keep things away from the have nots for good, while also making it fair across the board going forward.
I'm not really sure you've ended up meeting these goals, not least because there's an assumption that "exclusives are bad" is axiomatically true, when it isn't. It isn't *false* either, mostly because it's just an opinion.

And the definition of "fair" is somewhat subjective. I can see how, for example, it might be considered unfair to people who (as some did) subscribed for those six and a half months required to get "Shroud of Memory" specifically so that they would get it. One of those people even said on the forums that if he had known it would be possible later to get it without subscribing for *those* *specific* six months, he'd have dropped sub for that time. Is your proposal fair to him?
Quote: Originally Posted by ZionHalcyon View Post
Leverage the Reputation system already in the game to keep track of a player's "time played". For this reputation, the idea is that a player will "level" to the next level after 2 months of play.
Don't get hung up on implementation details, especially not ones that aren't relevant to the feature. The rep system cannot, as such, track time played *at*all*. Just specify: "have a counter that tracks a player's 'time played' and advances the player up the reward ladder as it increases". Let BioWare worry about how to implement it.
Quote: Originally Posted by ZionHalcyon View Post
Then there will be a Subscriber reputation vendor where a player can purchase past rewards for credits.
Unless the amounts of credits are painfully high, this essentially means "for free", and in any event it favours people who play a *lot* (and strays into wobbly terrain at the edge of "fair" as a result).
Quote: Originally Posted by ZionHalcyon View Post
The idea here as well, is that you can then also use this method to reward items that are no longer in game, like Light vs Dark (pets, gear, and Master Ranos), or the old Chevin event. I wouldn't even be opposed to collectors edition exclusives and (if legal permits it) the old Razer bonus green-black lightsaber crystals to be added (although perhaps in those cases, lock them behind legend).
Legal almost certainly won't allow the Razer crystals to be offered any other way. The DvL rewards were *gameplay* rewards (and in the case of the top two tiers - Ranos was for the second-to-top tier - *substantial* amounts of gameplay). Again, you haven't really explained why "exclusive" automatically means "bad".
Quote: Originally Posted by ZionHalcyon View Post
And to make it fair and easy, just make it clear everyone starts from 0 when this is kicked off. That will give those who had the sub rewards previously a little more time of exclusivity, and not hassle the devs with having to figure out how long people subbed beforehand.

Thoughts?
How is it fair that the six years I've been playing, four of which are subscriber years, don't count for anything? (OK, the year or so since the last subscriber bonus where I got more than yet another recoloured Astromech minipet... The same principle applies.) (Oh, and the red droid minipet I got for logging in while BioWare was supporting some foreign charity I've never heard of doesn't count either.)

Now for some practical considerations.

How do you define "time played"? Does it count if I log in for a minute on one character every 27 days? How much does it count for if I do that? Is it based on counting the number of hours I'm logged in? (If so, how is that fair to people with, like, you know, jobs?) Your proposed system lives or dies by the answer to this question, so I'm disappointed that you didn't address it.
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Elessara's Avatar


Elessara
07.03.2019 , 05:08 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by SteveTheCynic View Post
I'm not really sure you've ended up meeting these goals, not least because there's an assumption that "exclusives are bad" is axiomatically true, when it isn't. It isn't *false* either, mostly because it's just an opinion.

And the definition of "fair" is somewhat subjective. I can see how, for example, it might be considered unfair to people who (as some did) subscribed for those six and a half months required to get "Shroud of Memory" specifically so that they would get it. One of those people even said on the forums that if he had known it would be possible later to get it without subscribing for *those* *specific* six months, he'd have dropped sub for that time. Is your proposal fair to him?

Don't get hung up on implementation details, especially not ones that aren't relevant to the feature. The rep system cannot, as such, track time played *at*all*. Just specify: "have a counter that tracks a player's 'time played' and advances the player up the reward ladder as it increases". Let BioWare worry about how to implement it.

Unless the amounts of credits are painfully high, this essentially means "for free", and in any event it favours people who play a *lot* (and strays into wobbly terrain at the edge of "fair" as a result).

Legal almost certainly won't allow the Razer crystals to be offered any other way. The DvL rewards were *gameplay* rewards (and in the case of the top two tiers - Ranos was for the second-to-top tier - *substantial* amounts of gameplay). Again, you haven't really explained why "exclusive" automatically means "bad".

How is it fair that the six years I've been playing, four of which are subscriber years, don't count for anything? (OK, the year or so since the last subscriber bonus where I got more than yet another recoloured Astromech minipet... The same principle applies.) (Oh, and the red droid minipet I got for logging in while BioWare was supporting some foreign charity I've never heard of doesn't count either.)

Now for some practical considerations.

How do you define "time played"? Does it count if I log in for a minute on one character every 27 days? How much does it count for if I do that? Is it based on counting the number of hours I'm logged in? (If so, how is that fair to people with, like, you know, jobs?) Your proposed system lives or dies by the answer to this question, so I'm disappointed that you didn't address it.
Time played does not seem like a particularly good measure. I would think time subscribed would be better and we know BioWare can tell how long people have been subscribed. I personally think that making everyone start at 0 is ... less than fair. Being a loyal subscriber should count for something.