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I need help with my Jedi Guardian Tank PVE

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Guardian / Juggernaut
I need help with my Jedi Guardian Tank PVE

Lapens's Avatar


Lapens
02.14.2013 , 02:37 PM | #1
Hey there,

Ok, I am really confuse in this moment. I am trying to make a Jedi Guardian Tank PVE . I have read a lot of posts about that. Someone told me take a look in Noxxic. Now I have read that Noxxic is really bad. So I don't have a guide, I don't have nothing to take a look and follow to make an stronger tank.

Someone could help me? I want a Jedi Knight Guardian Tank PVE. So, stats and builds?

Many thanks!

ATAMIANM's Avatar


ATAMIANM
02.15.2013 , 10:31 AM | #2
Quote: Originally Posted by Lapens View Post
Hey there,

Ok, I am really confuse in this moment. I am trying to make a Jedi Guardian Tank PVE . I have read a lot of posts about that. Someone told me take a look in Noxxic. Now I have read that Noxxic is really bad. So I don't have a guide, I don't have nothing to take a look and follow to make an stronger tank.

Someone could help me? I want a Jedi Knight Guardian Tank PVE. So, stats and builds?

Many thanks!
There is a stickie on the Jedi Knight Guardian that has great information on how to build a Guardian tank. It has helped me a lot.
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JonMuckey's Avatar


JonMuckey
02.20.2013 , 09:45 AM | #3
Hey,

I think the Noxxic guide is fine for a Defense Spec guardian.

The rotation isn't too bad, but can definitely be improved.

The only change I've done in the talent tree are:

-- In the Vigilance tree, for Accuracy, I removed two points here.
-- In the Focus tree, for Swelling Winds, I added two points here.

Honestly, accuracy should not be as important as keeping your mitigation stats up (you can maintain agro at starting base accuracy with correct rotation) . In my play style, I went ahead and added some accuracy to get up to 95%. My mitigation is a bit skewed (running Defense Chance of 32%, Shield Change of 50%, and Shield Absorb at 47% [absorb low due to accuracy improvement, this would be at 50% if i dropped my accuracy stats])

Hopefully that helps, feel free to message me in game.

The most important thing as a tank is to absolutely be aware of the situation and adjust accordingly.
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Lapens's Avatar


Lapens
03.04.2013 , 12:48 PM | #4
Thank you so much mates. I'm folllowing the noxxic guide now. I am a much better tank than before. When i wrote the post was a level 20 maybe or something **** that. Now ar level 45, I do a good flashpoints like a tank and I haven't had an argue with nobody. Thanks again.

Kitru's Avatar


Kitru
03.04.2013 , 06:39 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by JonMuckey View Post
I think the Noxxic guide is fine for a Defense Spec guardian.
People, myself included, say Noxxic is bad because it *is* bad.

For example, the Noxxic guide tells you to prioritize Shield and Absorb (getting them to 50%) over Defense (getting it to only 25%), and then stacking Endurance pretty much as much as possible. This is *absurdly* wrong. First off, it ignores the realities of gearing up in TOR wherein stats compete in certain groups and aren't all competing with each other. For example, Shield never competes with Absorb or Defense except through augments; it also never competes with main stat. As such, putting Shield in the same stat prioritization as Strength is completely fallacious. It also completely ignores the fact that the actual listed values for those stats are *painfully* wrong from an optimization standpoint: as a Guardian, you want *massive* amounts of Defense because you don't have the significant +Shield and +Absorb talents natively that make stacking Shield and Absorb effective; as such, the actual optimal distribution is placing about roughly half of your total mitigation itemization into Defense (so with 1600 total itemization, you would have 800 Defense rating) and splitting the remaining points slightly in favor of Shield (using the same previous example, ~500-600 Shield with ~200-300 Absorb). The actual stat allocation Noxxic provides is just *painfully* wrong.

Also, Noxxic actually thinks that Accuracy is valuable for tanks; it's not. You'll actually get more increased threat and damage out of Power than you will Accuracy: the raw increase to damage from Power is, on a percentage basis, higher than the comparative percentage increase made by decreasing your miss chance through Accuracy. Accuracy is actually substantially worse than either Strength *or* Power as a threat/damage mechanism for tanks. It's only really valuable for DPS, who have actually stacked sufficient Power, Crit, and Surge such that, through DR and dilution, the contributions of Accuracy are higher and the contributions of all other DPS stats are lower.

Furthermore, as to the spec, you're actually better off taking 3 points out of Accuracy (as I said before, Accuracy isn't useful) and putting them into Swelling Winds (2 points) and Master Focus (1 point): Swelling Winds increases the damage of Force Sweep (which, thanks to Single Saber Mastery, has a 30% increased threat modifier) by a significant amount while reducing the CD, which means better threat in both ST and AoE situations (since Force Sweep is used in both scenarios); Master Focus is simply a more useful expenditure than Accuracy or Insight, even if it's a largely marginal contributor.

Furthermore, as to the ability priority, it gets that wrong just as well. For Guardian tanks, Riposte exists outside of the normal ability priority since it's off the GCD: it should simply be used every time it's possible. It also places Force Sweep *way* higher than it should be and ignores the realities of needing to allow for time between Blade Storm and Force Sweep to generate Courage stacks. Guardian Slash and Dispatch should *both* be higher on the priority than Force Sweep, and let's not get involved in the fact that Master Strike and Force Stasis are completely missing from that list (Master Strike is free and deals a crapton of damage; Force Stasis is free and generates 3 Force for you). It also says that Focused Defense is a legitimate survivability CD when, really, it's not: even if you taunt immediately after using it, every tick of it reduces your total threat by 20%; you're *going* to lose threat when you use Focused Defense even if you're taunting absolutely perfectly. For a tank, losing threat is pretty much the worst thing you can do, and it makes no sense to do it just for a *minute* self heal that costs you an inordinate amount of Focus (which Focused Defense *will* do).

In short, Noxxic *is* bad. The only correct advice is *painfully* obvious (like what talents to take in the Defense tree because it's not as if those aren't readily apparent); anything that might actually answer a real question a person might have is simply *wrong*.
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Eternalnight's Avatar


Eternalnight
03.04.2013 , 10:51 PM | #6
Well it kind of depends on the class spec how much Noxxic gets wrong, but basically every guide there has some important things it gets wrong.

One thing they seem to do a lot is copy/paste stuff from different guides to different classes, to other class guides, while ignoring their differences.

For example they give the same percentages for tanking stats for all tank classes and then even claim that all different classes will reach the same percentages with the same amount of stats in their gear. Both of these are absurdly wrong since different classes have different base values without stats from gear.
And the percentages they give are wrong for every class.


And as for accuracy.
Quote: Originally Posted by Kitru View Post
Also, Noxxic actually thinks that Accuracy is valuable for tanks; it's not.
While that is true, there is more.

Their whole explanation about how accuracy works is completely wrong. They claim that accuracy affects force/tech attacks, which is false. Bosses do not currently (while we are still in 1.7) have any "defense" against force/tech attacks and accuracy does not benefit force/tech at all. They also claim that all melee attacks are "normal" attaks (with 90% base accuracy), which is also false. Only one attack for each class is basic attack. The rest are special attacks. (special attack is not the same as force/tech like Noxxic also falsely claims)

Jossajus's Avatar


Jossajus
03.05.2013 , 03:13 AM | #7
This is a very difficult topic to research because it seems like each patch changes everything... After quite a few hours of research (try 12+) I mostly come away with a list of "truths" on a defense tank:

1) ALWAYS hit Riposte when it's off CD.
2) There are two different, alternating, phases for combat: Focus Building and Focus Dumping:

Focus Building Priorty should be:
(open with Saber throw and Force Leap)
Sunder
Strike

Focus Dumping Priority for multiple mobs should be:

Riposte
Force Sweep
Guardian Slash
Bladestorm
Hilt Strike
Master Strike
Dispatch

With other abilities (such as taunts, an additional force leap, force stasis, and force push) used in certain situations.

3) Your mitigation stats should be 35/50/47 or close to it.

4) 25k-27k health is preferred.

5) Aim is a useless stat and should be discarded.

6) Never let yourself get below 2 Focus so that you can always use riposte when it's off CD.

7) 90% of this post will become useless in a couple weeks when 2.0 goes live.

8) 32/7/2 is the preferred build for guardian tanks.

Now, I know that some of this is wrong (maybe all of it) and I would LOVE for someone to correct me on it so that I can build a good guardian tank.

grallmate's Avatar


grallmate
03.07.2013 , 08:42 PM | #8
Noxxic is terrible. If you have no idea what you're doing it'll give you a vague intro to a spec, like what abilities it uses but past that (including the priority of said abilities) it isn't worth the pixels that display it.

Fights aren't broken up into Focus building and dumping. *ABILITIES* are broken up into Focus Builder and Focus Burners. You should interweave the types as required and by using a Sunder -> Filler -> Filler rotation.

Gearing for HP and mitigation is a preference thing as long as you have enough mitigation that your healer can keep you up. Both are viable but generally gearing for mitigation is the suggested route as extra mitigation makes the healers job easier while extra HP doesn't provide much benefit beyond vanity.

Currently the 'preferred' build for Guardian tanks is 18/23/0 but both perform fine in the hands of a skilled player. Similarly, both suck in the hands of an unskilled player.

There are plenty of guides around on this forum for tanking and tanking on a Guardian in particular. Here's a link to one I wrote up for my guild as well:
http://dalborravindication.enjin.com...ardian-tanking

I'd also suggest looking at some of the videos on TankingTOR while they're still there and reading any 'General Tanking' guides you come across. *HOW* you tank is more important than what tank you play. As such a great Guardian tank can jump on either of the other tanks and perform fine. Hell I even end up tanking HM FPs on DPS Vanguard without issue.

When I say '*HOW* you tank' I am talking about things like, mob positioning and grouping, group threat generation, interrupts, stuns situation awareness and many other small things. A tank that groups up mobs and keep them away from the CCed ones is much nicer to run with than one that ignores everything but 1 Elite or the one that uses his knock back to "build threat" on all the nicely bunched mobs while knocking them out of a ground targeted AOE.
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Gralleh's Guide to Guardian Tanking [UPDATED for 2.0]