I've been playing more or less since launch (minus a few lapses, the latest of which I just came back from after almost a year), but I've never managed to stick to the story of a "dark"-ish Republic character. It always just comes off as so much like a...dumb thug.

So, for those that played a Republic class through the story, and then chose to sign up for the Empire in the lead-up to Ossus, I'm curious what your characters' reasoning was, particularly if you were playing a non-human (since Anri, while delightful, is representative of a case that would be unknown to the player beforehand). I can easily see some paths for Agents or Hunters, especially to swap sides, but am having a hard time fathoming the other way around.

Well ... in my case my Republic defector characters are light side.

- The former Chancellor tried to have me killed by the hands of the Republic's special black ops unit.

- Saresh (or the Back up Chancellor) had Senators/Republic officials imprisoned or executed because they wanted to help the Alliance.

- The Republic did **** all to help me defeat Zakuul. The Empire stuck their neck out for me.

- A former SIS agent destroyed a good bulk of my Alliance while attempting to save the Alliance :/

- The former Chancellor tried to have me killed by the hands of the Republic's special black ops unit.

- Saresh (or the Back up Chancellor) had Senators/Republic officials imprisoned or executed because they wanted to help the Alliance.

- The Republic did **** all to help me defeat Zakuul. The Empire stuck their neck out for me.

- A former SIS agent destroyed a good bulk of my Alliance while attempting to save the Alliance :/

Those are all pretty fair reasons, with the slight...snag maybe just being that that's mostly former Republic people that committed those offenses. Nonetheless, you raise some good points as to why the current Alliance might want to maintain an alliance (no pun intended) with the Empire. And I suppose that, similarly, most of the "undesirable" elements of the Empire could be assumed (maybe safely, maybe not) to be something of a former concern as well, given what happened to its leadership in the 3.0-5.0 era. Out of curiosity, were any of your mentioned defectors aliens? Did that inform their respective decisions in any way (or did anything else)?

Not all of my Republic characters have done Ossus but they have all sided with the Empire on Iokath and will continue to side with them on Ossus and going forward. All of my Republic characters have been betraying the Republic as much as possible since the class stories, and they all have very specific major problems with the Jedi, the Republic and the Senate. In KOTFE/KOTET:

- The Republic did nothing to help the Alliance, while the Sith Empire stepped up. In fact they actively decided to continue cooperating with Zakuul.

- The Republic tried to kill the Commander. The Republic officially condemned the Commander for taking out Saresh, too, instead of condemning the assassination attempt.

- The former Grand Master didn't mind having my Jedi run around and put themselves at risk, but she chose to sit in the forest and meditate instead of lifting a finger to help the Alliance. Maybe she couldn't fight, but advise, stay in touch, teach some lightsaber drills, say hi to her son? At least Marr had the excuse of being dead for not turning up.

- Most of my toons are married to a Sith in their playthroughs.

Out of curiosity, were any of your mentioned defectors aliens? Did that inform their respective decisions in any way (or did anything else)?

Human Shadow & Togruta Sentinel - Truthfully I didn't even think about that. The Empire has been accepting aliens since the Makeb expansion and we've seen various aliens in positions of power since then. (Darth Hexid, Veeroa Denz, Darth Atroxa)

Cyborg Scoundrel, although class/race was irrelevant. My first character to reach Ossus.

- Empress Acina did right by Alliance and myself.

- Republic didn't offer any support but decided to keep bowing to Zakuul, instead.

- Malcolm Jace was an Ahole on Iokath and I had no reason to betray Acina there.

- As smuggler, I don't really feel like I owe any allegiance to the Republic.

However, when I found out that the Empire were being aggressors on Ossus, all my subsequent characters, both rep and imp, decided to side with the Republic. Let bygones be bygones, eh?

I spend some times with my JK trying to figure out who to side with, mainly for the reasons listed above :

- The Republic did nothing to help against Zakuul, while the Empire did

- Saresh tried to kill her while Acina fought by her side

- I was not too pleased with Malcom's agressive attitude while arriving on Iokath

So for a moment, i considered siding with the Empire, though :

- Acina, while supposed to be my JK's ally came into Alliance territory uninvited and behind her back, absolutely not telling her that she was seeking a superweapon for the Empire, and showed no remorse for doing so, proving that despite saying the Empire had changed and that they'd not betray their allies, she was ultimately not as trustworthy as she first appeared.

- The Empire was seemingly the same as before (proven to be true during Ossus too)

- The overall philosophy of the Empire is something my JK can't approve of.

So in the end i decided to side with the Republic and considering what happens on Ossus, i'm pretty happy i choose the Republic over the Empire, and so all my main characters will side with the Republic now.

Republic is a falling and degenerating democracy with corruption, sort of shadow government (Saresh was really pulling the strings despite someone else being officially in power) and high ranking representatives departing \ betraying (look at the Uprisings - while rebellious imperials were doing their own thing, Pubs were sure they do it for the Republic but totally ignored the government; Garza officially supporting some fanatic for personal reasons).

Empire on the other hand is a tyrany slowly turning into technocracy (reduced Dark Council, pragmatic Empress looking after the people, turning away from racism).

To be frank I'll have hard time staying with the Republic on my pub characters. Consular already turned to the Empire (Acina offering an alliance vs. Saresh trying to kill me was the final straw), Trooper will stay with the Republic (he's a guy with a heart of gold but not very bright), Smuggler will probably turn and no idea about Knight.

Cyborg Scoundrel, although class/race was irrelevant. My first character to reach Ossus.

 

- Empress Acina did right by Alliance and myself.

- Republic didn't offer any support but decided to keep bowing to Zakuul, instead.

- Malcolm Jace was an Ahole on Iokath and I had no reason to betray Acina there.

- As smuggler, I don't really feel like I owe any allegiance to the Republic.

 

However, when I found out that the Empire were being aggressors on Ossus, all my subsequent characters, both rep and imp, decided to side with the Republic. Let bygones be bygones, eh?

No reason to betray Acina?

The fact that she's on Iokath is the Empire betraying you.

If people want to side with the evil, stab you in the back, kill you for looking at you wrong, do whatever they want to you if they have power over you, side of the line, why not say so?

Not to mention, Saresh wasn't Republic. She was loner with connections out for herself.

Not to mention, Saresh wasn't Republic. She was loner with connections out for herself.

The sitting 'chancellor' gave the same excuse but someone I trust said that he was Saresh's puppet as long as she lived. And even if she acts on her own during KotET, she was quite nasty (and a bad leader) during Ziost.

I let

die once. One less soldier for the Republic.

Hated myself for it.

I found it was very easy for my Republic characters to side with the Empire on Iokath and after, for the reasons stated above. Basically, the Republic never helps and even betrays you, while the Empire consistently comes to your aid.

That's why I've never had an Empire character side with the Republic. Why would they?

I was really disappointed that the choice wasn't more logically balanced.

The sitting 'chancellor' gave the same excuse but someone I trust said that he was Saresh's puppet as long as she lived. And even if she acts on her own during KotET, she was quite nasty (and a bad leader) during Ziost.

Yeah the current chancellor doesn't condemn the situation when Saresh tries to kill the Commander. In fact he sends you an email telling you he's secretly glad you took Saresh out, but he's going to publicly condemn you anyway. There's also the memo that the Alliance intercepts that says that the Republic will continue to work with Zakuul , in the hopes it will benefit them when the Empire and Alliance are destroyed.

For any Commander it's bad enough but for someone who worked their tail off for the Republic as the Battlemaster or Jedi Consular or whatever, that strikes me as a true kick in the teeth. If any of my Republic characters were still thinking of supporting the Republic that would have pushed them over the edge.

My Jedi would airlock themselves before returning to the hypocrisy and cruelty of the Jedi order, as well.

I see a lot of Saresh as reason, but she wasn’t doing things by the republic’s authority when she attempts to kill you. This is heavily explained multiple times in the chapter. Secondly, you get to take care of her at the end of that chapter. So personally, I don’t see that has a reason.

No hate on anyone for betraying the republic, Im just curious if there’s a reason that I could apply to a character when I do. I just find that one pretty illogical.

Edit: Also, Acina sure helped you a lot and I was very inclined to support her even with my super light jedi but she betrayed me in the end. Even though she swore she was different. We were an alliance and she didn’t think twice about letting us know about the weapon they were looking for. Instead, she wanted the weapon for herself so she could oveerthrow us at some point.

I see a lot of Saresh as reason, but she wasn’t doing things by the republic’s authority when she attempts to kill you. This is heavily explained multiple times in the chapter. Secondly, you get to take care of her at the end of that chapter. So personally, I don’t see that has a reason.

 

No hate on anyone for betraying the republic, Im just curious if there’s a reason that I could apply to a character when I do. I just find that one pretty illogical.

 

Edit: Also, Acina sure helped you a lot and I was very inclined to support her even with my super light jedi but she betrayed me in the end. Even though she swore she was different. We were an alliance and she didn’t think twice about letting us know about the weapon they were looking for. Instead, she wanted the weapon for herself so she could oveerthrow us at some point.

For me Saresh factors in for two reasons - one because her actions before KOTFE, when she WAS working for the Republic, had already soured my Republic characters (namely, bombing Ziost and the way she seemed to see Makeb as an avenue for personal gain). Two because the Republic's current government does nothing to condemn her when she tries to assassinate the Commander, and instead condemns the Commander.

But my characters have a lot of other reasons they dislike the Republic and want to change sides, going back to the class stories. As an example, my smuggler never cared about politics and resented being pressed into the Republic's schemes. She kept Ivory and established her pirate empire, and she had those ships fire on the Republic.

Two because the Republic's current government does nothing to condemn her when she tries to assassinate the Commander, and instead condemns the Commander.

I imprisonned Saresh with my JK, and did not kill her, i don't remember the Chacellor condemning me for anything.

He even told me that he'd be pretty happy if i forgot she was in a cell on Odessen and just forgot to feed her

Vin Attrius will really wish i killed him on Nathema now that he'll have to live with Saresh nearby

I imprisonned Saresh with my JK, and did not kill her, i don't remember the Chacellor condemning me for anything.

 

He even told me that he'd be pretty happy if i forgot she was in a cell on Odessen and just forgot to feed her

 

Vin Attrius will really wish i killed him on Nathema now that he'll have to live with Saresh nearby

If you kill Saresh, he sends you this letter saying that he's going to be slamming you left and right, but that he privately thanks you for taking her out. So he's a total hypocrite.

And if you ally with the Empire after KOTET 2 you also get an intercepted email that the Republic thinks that Zakuul will destroy both the Alliance and the Empire, and that the Republic should benefit. It says that the Republic's formal plan will be to continue appeasing Zakuul.

My toons would prefer being independent, 3rd party Alliance, but that choice isn't presented.

For a brief couple moments, Acina did represent a less toxic Empire, and I do consider it poor writing concerning her rapid turn back to an Empire I've fought forever. She did break our treaty. Not only is she practicing standard Sith tactics, even if I trusted her, The Empire is one assassination away from being the same old Sith.

Yada yada, the Empire is less racist.. it still enslaves, planets and beings, it still destroys literally everything.

Saresh is dead, her cronies not withstanding, however I don't consider her actions at Ziost to be negative. I too would have, in fact have led aggressive tactics against the Empire.

Yes, there is standard fare corruption in the Republic, and those will be rooted out, and dealt with, just as soon as I'm NOT putting out fires the Sith started.

BUT, the one reason I chose the Republic, is because I will have to fight the Empire eventually. Acina proves that when she came for yet another "super" weapon. Long term, IF the Republic is destroyed, the Alliance would be alone, and destroyed next.

If you kill Saresh, he sends you this letter saying that he's going to be slamming you left and right in a speech for killing Saresh, but that he privately thanks you for taking her out. So he's a total hypocrite.

Only if you played the part with Saresh DS though.

Rotting in a cell where she has neither power, nor influence, i wonder if it's not worse for her than just a quick, clean death though

And i think he's been replaced too, unless i'm mistaken.

Anyways, my originally Pub characters are not really happy with how the Republic turned out, but, it's still the better of 2 dysfunctional system, or the lesser evil.

Well they're all perfectly fine in the Alliance though, and attacking a pacifist Jedi colony for the Empire is clearly not something they'd do.

They would all rather stay neutral, but if they have to choose, then the Republic is still slightly better than the Empire.

And my former Imp all have their reasons to hate the Empire, so why not see if the grass is greener on the other side ? (though i still found the saboteur thing really underwhelming, and they'd prbably rather straight up kill every imperials they find, instead of playing fake ally with them)

Only if you played the part with Saresh DS though.

Rotting in a cell where she has neither power, nor influence, i wonder if it's not worse for her than just a quick, clean death though

 

And i think he's been replaced too, unless i'm mistaken.

 

Anyways, my originally Pub characters are not really happy with how the Republic turned out, but, it's still the better of 2 dysfunctional system, or the lesser evil.

Well they're all perfectly fine in the Alliance though, and attacking a pacifist Jedi colony for the Empire is clearly not something they'd do.

They would all rather stay neutral, but if they have to choose, then the Republic is still slightly better than the Empire.

 

And my former Imp all have their reasons to hate the Empire, so why not see if the grass is greener on the other side ? (though i still found the saboteur thing really underwhelming, and they'd prbably rather straight up kill every imperials they find, instead of playing fake ally with them)

My feeling about putting Saresh (or Vinn Atrius) in a cell is that they're just going to continue plotting from there. No reason to keep them alive IMHO. Plus Vinn Atrius doesn't go to the Alliance jail, he's sent back to Zakuul where they're probably parading him around as a hero.

Gnost-Dural is not a pacifist. He's studying the Sith so he can wipe them all out, and he's killed plenty in his time. He says so in his journals. And his little colony doesn't seem to care about sharing their food and farming resources with anyone else even though the Republic is having a resource crisis.

Given a choice, my characters all would stay outside of the factions entirely and continue operating as the Alliance. They've had enough of the stupid war, especially since they now know that all it did was feed Vitiate/Valkorion's immortality. They're not about to return to the Jedi or the Republic, though, and my Imperial characters have more of a reason to hate the Republic than the Empire. My Bounty Hunter has not forgotten how the Republic framed her or slaughtered her friends, and my Agent has not forgotten how the Republic felt free to use her conditioning for their own purposes.

My feeling about putting Saresh (or Vinn Atrius) in a cell is that they're just going to continue plotting from there. No reason to keep them alive IMHO. Plus Vinn Atrius doesn't go to the Alliance jail, he's sent back to Zakuul where they're probably parading him around as a hero.

 

Gnost-Dural is not a pacifist. He's studying the Sith so he can wipe them all out, and he's killed plenty in his time. He says so in his journals. And his little colony doesn't seem to care about sharing their food and farming resources with anyone else even though the Republic is having a resource crisis.

 

Given a choice, my characters all would stay outside of the factions entirely and continue operating as the Alliance. They've had enough of the stupid war, especially since they now know that all it did was feed Vitiate/Valkorion's immortality. They're not about to return to the Jedi or the Republic, though, and my Imperial characters have more of a reason to hate the Republic than the Empire. My Bounty Hunter has not forgotten how the Republic framed her or slaughtered her friends, and my Agent has not forgotten how the Republic felt free to use her conditioning for their own purposes.

You have 3 choices with Vinn :

- kill him

- send him back to Zakuul

- imprison him on Odessen (with Saresh and Zenta if you didn't kill them)

Because of course Sith are absolutely not trying to wipe out the Jedi

And while on that colony they were attacking not one and would've stayed peacefully there if they were not attacked by imperial forces

Well the conditionning on the IA was put there by the Empire in the first place. It's been a while since i replayed the IA story, but i think Hunter is the only one who uses the conditioning happily and never appologizes for that. And Hunter was not even a real Pub.

My BH was always treated like trash by imperials because she's Zabrak, and Janarus did clear her name in the end, as he was manipulated by Jun Seros.

My SI was a slave of the Empire and was then forced to become a Sith in order to survive and maybe eventually gain his freedom, if he survived everything coming at him, with many Sith trying to kill him at every turn

And my SW was betrayed over and over again while trying her best for the Empire.

They all came to despise the Empire, even the 1 that was trully loyal to it in the first place

I don't blame the Republic at all for sitting on the side lines whilst any of the nutty Valky family were still in control. Zakuul took on both the Empire and Republic and smashed them to pieces.

Acina getting away with backing the Alliance is terrible writing. Why didn't Arcan or Vaylin just erase Dromund Kaas from existence when they found out they had helped the Commander? They had already besieged the planet whilst simultaneously wrecking the Republic. They could have wiped out the Empire with little difficulty.

You have 3 choices with Vinn :

- kill him

- send him back to Zakuul

- imprison him on Odessen (with Saresh and Zenta if you didn't kill them)

 

Because of course Sith are absolutely not trying to wipe out the Jedi

And while on that colony they were attacking not one and would've stayed peacefully there if they were not attacked by imperial forces

Ah. I didn't realize there's a choice to imprison him on Odessen. Still don't see what the point of that is, though. The guy just tried to wipe out everyone on Odessen and betrayed his own order by feeding those people to Zildrog, so sure, let's show him mercy.

Neither the Republic nor the Empire have shied away from genocide (the Sith Genocide is on the record after the Hyperspace War for instance) so they're no better than the other. But in the course of the game, the Sith don't actually seem to have organized massive efforts like the Foundry to try to kill every Jedi. You hear the Jedi knocking the Sith and focusing on "destroying the dark side" a lot more than the other way around.

Point being, though, Gnost-Dural isn't some kindly old man. He wants to wipe out the Sith, and his "peaceful colony" is awfully close to Dromund Kaas.

Well the conditionning on the IA was put there by the Empire in the first place. It's been a while since i replayed the IA story, but i think Hunter is the only one who uses the conditioning happily and never appologizes for that. And Hunter was not even a real Pub.

It was, but if the Republic was more decent than the Empire they wouldn't have used it. The Republic guy on Taris uses it for his own gain, and so does Ardun Kothe. And they try to use it to abandon the agent on Quesh after they're done with her.

To each their own, though. My characters despise the Republic and would never voluntarily be a part of it, but if another player feels differently, it's their game.

BUT, the one reason I chose the Republic, is because I will have to fight the Empire eventually. Acina proves that when she came for yet another "super" weapon. Long term, IF the Republic is destroyed, the Alliance would be alone, and destroyed next.

Republic was after the 'super' weapon just as the Empire. And Republic soldiers opened fire on Alliance operative on Iokath. With a bit better writing Empire could explain that they pursued Republic to Iokath to stop them from plundering the place - and with the treaty I assume they are more welcome there than the Republic.

To each their own, though. My characters despise the Republic and would never voluntarily be a part of it, but if another player feels differently, it's their game.

Yep, we all find reasons to go where we want our characters to go in the end.

I just can't see my very LS JC and JK, or even my trooper cautionning a system like the Empire, and despite evrything Acina said, her actions on Iokath shows that she's still a Sith and would have absolutely no problem betraying her alliance with us if it further her own goals. Then, my JC is Zabrak, my trooper is Mirialan, so why would they willingly go working for a very racist and xenophobic faction ?

My smuggler may not love the Republic but as an alien he has no reason to love the Empire either, especially after the Empire manipulating him, and he has personnal reason to hate the Empire anyways.

Then my IA is Chiss, so she was also confronted with imperial racism during all her career as an imperial spy, was brainwashed by the Sith, and so has no reason to want to work with them anymore. Anyways, the Chiss aren't even allied with the Empire anymore, and she's loyal to her people over the Empire.

BH is Zabrak, was never an imperial to begin with and was also faced with the imperial racism, and she's now a Mandalorian who are with the Alliance for now, so she has no reason to support the Empire.

SI is Pureblood, but as a former slave, he has no reason to caution a system where slavery is everywhere, anyways, he has a burning hatred for the Empire, and if siding with the Republic let him burn the Empire, then so be it.

SW was very loyal, and she's also very honourable, so the Empire really doesn't suit her in the end

So yeah, while the Republic is far from pefect, it's still far better than the Empire. And while defining my characters personnalitie, i ended up with mostly LS to neutral characters (my last BH ended her class story on DS1 because the toggle was set on DS, but most of her choices were actually LS, because i played her as honourable, who kills only her target and not the ones around), the only one that's pretty DS is my NOx, and even then that's mainly because he's doing things for his own survival but does anything that can actually harm the Empire, even if that's the LS choice, like on Balmorra with freeing that scientist who defected from the Empire to be free (when you look at it the imperial loyalist SI is oddly the LS one)

Republic was after the 'super' weapon just as the Empire. And Republic soldiers opened fire on Alliance operative on Iokath. With a bit better writing Empire could explain that they pursued Republic to Iokath to stop them from plundering the place - and with the treaty I assume they are more welcome there than the Republic.

Difference here is that the Republic is not officially your ally, so they don't have to report to you.

Empire is supposed to be you ally, and they went to Alliance territory uninvited to seize control of the superweapon for themselves, without asking permission and without even appologizing for that.

So clearly Acina was trying to get the weapon to be the most powerfull faction at the end of the day...