I know I've posted stuff like this in response to other threads, but I thought I'd make an actual thread about it.

 

Some background:

What prompted this post was a Veteran FP I was in last night. The group consisted of 3 DPS and 1 Healer - usually a good combo for Veterans.

Early on in the FP, someone else in the group - not the healer, and not me - used a Kolto. Shortly afterwards the Healer made some sort of comment about how they were the healer and we should leave all healing to them.

Being in a sort of mood, I replied, "And we can also heal ourselves". The healer replied - I think in an attempt to be sarcastic - "So you don't need me" and I replied "You're right, we don't".

This apparently got the healer's knickers in a twist, and they left the group. So, the other level 70 DPS Gunslinger took out his trusty Risha (beat me to it) and we finished the FP with no problem.

 

The point of all this is not to put down or berate the healer, but simply to point out the basic facts.

Veteran FPs are balanced and have Kolto stations so that any sort of group can do them. For various reasons, this ends up being a group of 4 DPS about 75% of the time and in most cases the Vet FP can be done just fine. (The exceptions being the later FPs like Copero, etc.)

This means that (vet FP) experienced DPS players are very much used to looking after their own health and will naturally use Koltos if they think they need it. It also means that, generally speaking, healers (and tanks) are not "needed" although they are good to have.

 

So, if you are a healer or tank and you join a Veteran FP group through Group Finder, please refrain from expressing the attitude that you are somehow "special". I suggest you simply do your job to the best of your abilities and not get all cranky when someone uses a kolto or medpack, or, for tanks, someone jumps in and "steals" agro, etc. You actually can be replaced by a companion.

 

So, just relax, and have fun.

 

P.S. - also, as I mentioned in another post - I'm there to enjoy myself. I'm not there to help you "learn" - not my job.

Where are healers/tanks supposed to learn then? When you que for Master Mode flashpoints players expect you to already know the flashpoints and your role and not be still learning.

 

Healing isn't too bad, you can do a decent job learning on the harder trash pulls, but tanks have pretty much no chance to learn proper tanking due to most dps not even being willing to wait 1s for the tank to pull and position the mob.

 

If it's speed you're concerned about you should be letting higher level tanks in vet flashpoints do their jobs and collect mobs for proper aoe. Mobs die a lot faster when they are not all spread out.

 

The next time some dps on fleet is begging for tanks/healers to que for master mode flashpoints and/or OPs you might want to consider just why there is a such a shortage.

As a tank main, I just dont queue vet FP as a tank. I'll go dps. Healing is actually useful, if not actually necessary, but a tank is a total waste of space a dps could be using.

If or when I queue for Vets on my healer(s), I almost never heal unless absolutely necessary. I'll dps most of the time and use the kolto stations as needed. Perhaps the healer that bailed from the group in the original post's summary wasn't aware of the stations function. I know when I first started this game I had no idea what those were. Either way though, if the healer left that abruptly, it appears someone was butt hurt...

They were in the wrong for complaining about you using kolto. You were also jerkish to continue and state you dont need him.

 

Vet FPs are a bit of an annoyance at the moment, because 4dps is what everyone want for it, and all other roles are bit on the "this would probably go faster without you" line. There is just no way around it, sad but true. The state of FPs lvsync wise is a disaster as well. They'd have to do a complete overhaul on vet FPs to fix them in a state that would reliably work for all levels and roles.

 

If you get vt fp with 4 tanks or healers, people often facepalm and leave, because it's an agonizingly boring slow dungeon with a selection like that. And they know it. You don't need to rub it in.

How is it even possible to be butt hurt in a Vet FP? That's like being mad at a Class story mission.

 

Usually I just let the healer do there thing and only grab a kolto if absolutely necessary, ie a group member or myself sub 15% hp and the healer isn't healing or can't keep up. I guess I don't run enough Vet anymore to really find why its an issue.

I'm a MMFP junkie, so I develop a great respect for good tanks and healers.

So even in tacticals, I let them do their roles. Actually, the best Vet runs that I remember, are with good tanks - neither they, or the rest of the group stops at any point to regenerate, just chain pulls all the way. And I just focus on my dps.

 

It's not a job to let ppl do what they like, just don't be a jerk about it.

I'm not there to help you "learn" - not my job.

 

You can cut your post down to this one line and everybody will know everything they need to know from your post.

 

No, it's not your JOB, but you could be helpful to those that are not as LETE as you feel you are, spread your knowledge and experience instead of being a Jerk. That is just being polite and helpful, of which I can take it by your comment that your are neither. So I would NOT complain about the Healer's comments too much as you have NO place to make complaints with an attitude like that.

 

It would not hurt you nor will it detract from your playing experience if you take a little bit of your precious time to help your fellow player. In fact it will enhance your game if you do take the time.

 

Try to Remember when you berate somebody for NOT knowing the fight. YOU WERE THERE AT ONE TIME TOO. You were not born knowing how every fight worked. YOU TOO had to learn from others HOW. So get off your HIGH HORSE and try being a little more personable at times.

 

As for your gripe with the Healer, it's trivial.... GET OVER IT!!

Edited June 22, 2019 by denavin

Reading your story and your put down I can actually understand the healer somewhat and why he/she left your group. I too left groups as a healer when it became very obvious that the others used me as a heal bot. The only thing worse than that are mindless dps rushers that don't care at all for their teammates and can't even bring themselves to wait 5 seconds to recuperate after a big fight. And if you say something you get immediately kicked, because a companion does not talk back. Edited June 22, 2019 by Phazonfreak

Where are healers/tanks supposed to learn then? When you que for Master Mode flashpoints players expect you to already know the flashpoints and your role and not be still learning.

 

Healing isn't too bad, you can do a decent job learning on the harder trash pulls, but tanks have pretty much no chance to learn proper tanking due to most dps not even being willing to wait 1s for the tank to pull and position the mob.

 

If it's speed you're concerned about you should be letting higher level tanks in vet flashpoints do their jobs and collect mobs for proper aoe. Mobs die a lot faster when they are not all spread out.

 

The next time some dps on fleet is begging for tanks/healers to que for master mode flashpoints and/or OPs you might want to consider just why there is a such a shortage.

 

So what, we are suppose to die to a boss in a veteran FP to give the healer experience? That sounds like a very insecure healer. There are times when a certain boss effect happens that you should hit a kolto to keep up the health during a dps storm (Manaan anyone)? But OP was being kind of a jerk, there was no need for the snark.

Edited June 23, 2019 by lightSaberAddiCt

Where are healers/tanks supposed to learn then? When you que for Master Mode flashpoints players expect you to already know the flashpoints and your role and not be still learning.

 

The next time some dps on fleet is begging for tanks/healers to que for master mode flashpoints and/or OPs you might want to consider just why there is a such a shortage.

 

I would agree with this if the vet FPs would be still in their pre-tactical state. Currently they don't offer any experience for healers or tanks though. The only good the current vets are good for learning wise is getting used to your rotation if you rolled a new toon/spec. Otherwise, totally wrong place to learn your role. The minute you que MM after "learning" your role in tactical you're in for a rough ride.

 

Imo, if the old FPs and the new FPs would be separated into two que, so MM hammerstation is where you learn and new stuff like Umbara would be the actual MM FPs, there would be some actual legitimate learning curve there.

Some background...

Funny you didn’t mention how good the healer was at their job before leaving the group. Why another player decided to use kolto? Was their HP below 40-30%? Was healer slaking?

 

Anyway, even if they were really bad, your “nah, we don’t need you” and “it’s not my job to help you learning” attitude is still fundamentally wrong and destructive for the community. The healer was probably new to the role or the game, their reaction shows they haven’t developed thick skin yet. Your comment may have discouraged them from learning that role further. Well done.

 

So, if you are a healer or tank and you join a Veteran FP group through Group Finder, please refrain from expressing the attitude that you are somehow "special". I suggest you simply do your job to the best of your abilities and not get all cranky when someone uses a kolto or medpack, or, for tanks, someone jumps in and "steals" agro, etc. You actually can be replaced by a companion.

It works both ways, you know. I was in groups where "special" dps players were kicked by tanks and healers because their behavior was annoying, they didn’t let others do their job and didn’t listen to reason. Everyone is replaceable, dps included.

 

It also means that, generally speaking, healers (and tanks) are not "needed" although they are good to have.

I can argue that dps are also not "needed" for Vet FPs since most of them can be done solo these days, even by a healer micromanaging their dps companion. It’s just faster with other 3 people.

 

So, just relax, and have fun.

It’s hard to have fun when you want to tank or heal but the group doesn’t allow you to and pulls everything on sight or runs to koltos every time they take damage. Is it fun to ruin other players’ fun?

 

There’re plenty of reasons for tanks and healers to queue vets. They may be learning their role in less stressful environment than MM FPs or ops, leveling or doing weekly on a char who can heal or tank only, or just being in mood for tanking or healing but nothing else pops. They shouldn't suffer through "we don't need you here" attutude which can be expressed not only with words but with actions as well, and being expected to enjoy it.

 

 

Where are healers/tanks supposed to learn then? When you que for Master Mode flashpoints players expect you to already know the flashpoints and your role and not be still learning.

<...>

The next time some dps on fleet is begging for tanks/healers to que for master mode flashpoints and/or OPs you might want to consider just why there is a such a shortage.

This.

I was so glad when I graduated from vet mode. Other than learning your spec and how trinity works, personally I find them a waste of time so I can see someone getting upset. That being said, ever since they took the isotopes out of vet mode I stopped taking them seriously altogether. Now I look at Vet mode as free for all gameplay. Sentinels and Gunslingers can face pull all they want. Healers can dps and tanks can use their favorite animations instead of being a meat shield.

I know I've posted stuff like this in response to other threads, but I thought I'd make an actual thread about it.

 

Some background:

What prompted this post was a Veteran FP I was in last night. The group consisted of 3 DPS and 1 Healer - usually a good combo for Veterans.

Early on in the FP, someone else in the group - not the healer, and not me - used a Kolto. Shortly afterwards the Healer made some sort of comment about how they were the healer and we should leave all healing to them.

Being in a sort of mood, I replied, "And we can also heal ourselves". The healer replied - I think in an attempt to be sarcastic - "So you don't need me" and I replied "You're right, we don't".

This apparently got the healer's knickers in a twist, and they left the group. So, the other level 70 DPS Gunslinger took out his trusty Risha (beat me to it) and we finished the FP with no problem.

 

The point of all this is not to put down or berate the healer, but simply to point out the basic facts.

Veteran FPs are balanced and have Kolto stations so that any sort of group can do them. For various reasons, this ends up being a group of 4 DPS about 75% of the time and in most cases the Vet FP can be done just fine. (The exceptions being the later FPs like Copero, etc.)

This means that (vet FP) experienced DPS players are very much used to looking after their own health and will naturally use Koltos if they think they need it. It also means that, generally speaking, healers (and tanks) are not "needed" although they are good to have.

 

So, if you are a healer or tank and you join a Veteran FP group through Group Finder, please refrain from expressing the attitude that you are somehow "special". I suggest you simply do your job to the best of your abilities and not get all cranky when someone uses a kolto or medpack, or, for tanks, someone jumps in and "steals" agro, etc. You actually can be replaced by a companion.

 

So, just relax, and have fun.

 

P.S. - also, as I mentioned in another post - I'm there to enjoy myself. I'm not there to help you "learn" - not my job.

 

OP, the next time you have a DPS queued waiting for hours for a MM flashpoint to pop, or you're trying to fill out healer and tank slots for an ops run and are having no luck, remember this thread. People like you, with rude and entitled attitudes like yours, are why those of us who play healers and tanks don't want to queue with pugs ever.

 

How dare you tell someone else in your group "we don't need you" like they're somehow lesser than you? Where do you get off? And then you come on here to brag about how you disrespected another player for no reason other than to stroke your own ego? You should be ashamed of yourself.

Edited June 23, 2019 by AscendingSky

I'm a MMFP junkie, so I develop a great respect for good tanks and healers.

So even in tacticals, I let them do their roles. Actually, the best Vet runs that I remember, are with good tanks - neither they, or the rest of the group stops at any point to regenerate, just chain pulls all the way. And I just focus on my dps.

 

It's not a job to let ppl do what they like, just don't be a jerk about it.

 

Actually, the WORST runs are just "chain pulls all the way." When someone continually runs ahead and doesn't let the group heal or stealth or however they prepare for the next mob or boss, that person is generally kicked from the FP. It's GROUP content, not "one guy attacking everything and the rest of you can catch up if you want" content.

 

Oddly enough, those same entitled players get so angry if the group doesn't keep up with their personal playstyle instead of them conforming to the group. Even after requesting that they not run ahead, they get nasty, belligerent, abusive, salty, and toxic... then seem surprised or explode with expletives when rightly given the boot from the group.

Edited June 23, 2019 by HoloTweed

It irks me to no end when people continue to use the koltos when I'm healing.

 

It's part of the reason I don't do vets anymore.

Actually, the WORST runs are just "chain pulls all the way." When someone continually runs ahead and doesn't let the group heal or stealth or however they prepare for the next mob or boss, that person is generally kicked from the FP. It's GROUP content, not "one guy attacking everything and the rest of you can catch up if you want" content.

 

Oddly enough, those same entitled players get so angry if the group doesn't keep up with their personal playstyle instead of them conforming to the group. Even after requesting that they not run ahead, they get nasty, belligerent, abusive, salty, and toxic... then seem surprised or explode with expletives when rightly given the boot from the group.

 

I think you misunderstood the sentiment expressed there. A group with a good tank, a healer knowing what to do and two DPS knowing about kill order, interrupts and stuff don't really have much down time or need to heal or anything in between trash groups, they can sort of chain pulling without anyone running ahead or falling behind. They just play very well together as a group. It's lots of fun to play then, though also rare to find in a real PUG.

 

And you are still right too, you can also come across people like you described and that isn't fun at all. Though /ignore does help to not meet those players again.

Where are healers/tanks supposed to learn then?

Let's list some:

1. By doing GF veteran FPs and doing your best to do your role - but without expecting help or deference, from others.

2. Joining an active Guild and doing FPs (VM or MM) with Guildmates to help you learn. You can even form a group and then join GF if you want the rewards. If you're not in an active Guild, find one or accept that learning may take a while.

3. Doing MM FPs and doing your best to do your role. (see next)

 

When you que for Master Mode flashpoints players expect you to already know the flashpoints and your role and not be still learning.

Maybe you do, but when I join any GF (VM or MM) PUG, I don't "expect" anything other than a bit of fun.

 

If it's speed you're concerned about you should be letting higher level tanks in vet flashpoints do their jobs and collect mobs for proper aoe.

Speed is never my concern. I don't even complain about not using spacebar during cutscenes (most of the time)

 

And, btw, as I've said in other posts, I actually prefer to play with the "trinity".

I have more to say but there's other posts to replay to.

Try to Remember when you berate somebody for NOT knowing the fight. YOU WERE THERE AT ONE TIME TOO. You were not born knowing how every fight worked. YOU TOO had to learn from others HOW.

I don't recall anyone berating anyone for not knowing the fight. I think what you're saying here comes under the heading of "projection".

Funny you didn’t mention how good the healer was at their job before leaving the group. Why another player decided to use kolto? Was their HP below 40-30%? Was healer slaking?

I have no idea. It was very early in the FP and I couldn't say whether the healer was any good, or why someone used a kolto, or what.

Anyway, even if they were really bad, your “nah, we don’t need you” and “it’s not my job to help you learning” attitude is still fundamentally wrong and destructive for the community. The healer was probably new to the role or the game, their reaction shows they haven’t developed thick skin yet. Your comment may have discouraged them from learning that role further. Well done.

As stated above, I have no idea how good or bad the healer was. It happened so soon in the FP that I don't even remember what level the healer was (but in the 20s I think) or their name.

I didn't say "nah" - I merely agreed with the healer when they sarcastically suggested we didn't need them. I also didn't say anything at that time, about it not being my job to help them learn.

Actually, I'm perfectly fine with helping people learn, if they ask nicely and don't act like a jerk. In this case the guy left before the topic could even be mentioned.

How dare you tell someone else in your group "we don't need you" like they're somehow lesser than you?

Let me again state that I was merely agreeing with the healers own sarcastic remark that we didn't need them.

 

But the fact is that no one is specifically "needed" in a veteran FP. That's why they are set up the way they are. Most DPS already know this - it's just the healers and tanks that need to accept it.

No healer - use Koltos, medpacks, and defensive CDs, or a companion

No tank - use Koltos, medpacks, and defensive CDs, or a companion, if the enemy actually does any real damage.

No DPs - the healers and tanks can DPS. It may be slower, but it can be done.

 

I've done Veteran FPs with just about every combo of roles you can think of.

It irks me to no end when people continue to use the koltos when I'm healing.

Why. I'd think you'd be thankful for the assist.

It irks me to no end when people continue to use the koltos when I'm healing.

 

It's part of the reason I don't do vets anymore.

 

When I did Vets just last night, both times we had a great healer. But we were doing blood hunt, and there was a couple times everyones health dropped to like 30%, the healer was overwhelmed trying to keep the one team member alive from an assault, and I had to hit a kolto.

 

Know what, she said thanks for keeping an eye out, I said don't worry your doing great healing. Besides that, or situations like that Manaan boss, I let the healer do their thing. The only other time I hit koltos is at the end of the fight because alot of players seem to expect to heal them after fight, rather then build force power, or god forbid, take a sec to regen your life with your skill ability.

 

It is a team people, sometimes I as a dps guardian have to taunt to get the boss off of the tank for a sec to get healed, should I not do that as well, let the tank die and then possibly wipe the team? People need to relax.

It irks me to no end when people continue to use the koltos when I'm healing.

 

It's part of the reason I don't do vets anymore.

When I'm healing Vet FP I use koltos myself so I can DPS more to get the FP over faster

 

There are so many different breeds of healers there just is no one right answer to all situations.

I didn't say "nah" - I merely agreed with the healer when they sarcastically suggested we didn't need them. I also didn't say anything at that time, about it not being my job to help them learn.

Actually, I'm perfectly fine with helping people learn, if they ask nicely and don't act like a jerk. In this case the guy left before the topic could even be mentioned.

Nothing stopped you from responding with something like “healers are not really ‘needed’ to clear vets but you’re welcome to fulfill your role”. You chose to throw an unfriendly and contemptuous remark (two of them, actually) knowing that it will piss them off just because they queued as healer and asked to leave healing to them.

 

Healer could be wrong (it’s hard to judge since your story lacks details) but you were not right either. No one deserves such attitude unless they annoy everyone with trollish comments like “you guys are garbage, you’ll never finish the run without my precious dps/heals/taunts” which happens once in a blue moon.

 

Sorry if I sound too passionate about it but I know quite well how healer feels when dps instead of dpsing waste time running from one kolto to another even though their HP is stable thanks to healer’s efforts.