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New player races

xviilegio's Avatar


xviilegio
03.27.2018 , 09:46 AM | #1
Heya

I wonder if there are more than just me who would like this game to expand with new player races.
Personally I would be happy if there was races like Nautolans, Rodians, Trandoshans, Wookies, Muuns, Biths, Toydarians etc. to choose when selecting a race to play in the game. If there developers here reading I hope this wish will make an impression.

Kind regards
"Your feeble skills are no match for the power of the dark side."

SteveTheCynic's Avatar


SteveTheCynic
03.27.2018 , 10:24 AM | #2
The "classic" criteria for a SPECIES to be included:
* Must speak Basic.
* Must be about human size and about human proportions.
* Must look reasonable kissing any romance / flirt target.

Additional items that are probably included, but I can't find any real evidence for:
* Should have human-like facial features. (An alternative formulation of the romance thing, I guess.)
* Should not reduce vast chunks of the game's dialogues to gibberish. This specifically excludes Voss and Gormaks. "You are not Voss". Um. Yes, I am. "Outsiders are not allowed in the Proving Grounds" Um. That's OK then, you can see that I'm a Voss. "Voss is a strange planet that nobody knows about." Um. I'm *FROM* Voss, of course I know about it, and I don't need your poxy permits and clearances to go there.
* Should not require funky vocoder effects.
* Should not require heavy re-work of armour and weapon fits.
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To go to Belsavis, you must go to Belsavis.
> @"Biff.5312" said:
> Exercise your whimsy.

TalonVII's Avatar


TalonVII
03.27.2018 , 11:31 AM | #3
Zeltrons FTW.
Pretty, so what do we blow up first? -Wraith Squadron Motto
Ebon Hawk
Skiratta Legacy

tobarstep's Avatar


tobarstep
03.30.2018 , 05:54 PM | #4
I'd love to see Devaronians playable. After reading about their history and culture in the bounty hunter sourcebook for the FFG Star Wars game, I think they'd make ideal additions to the playable race roster.

thepilk's Avatar


thepilk
04.02.2018 , 10:44 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by SteveTheCynic View Post
The "classic" criteria for a SPECIES to be included:
* Must speak Basic.
* Must be about human size and about human proportions.
* Must look reasonable kissing any romance / flirt target.

Additional items that are probably included, but I can't find any real evidence for:
* Should have human-like facial features. (An alternative formulation of the romance thing, I guess.)
* Should not reduce vast chunks of the game's dialogues to gibberish. This specifically excludes Voss and Gormaks. "You are not Voss". Um. Yes, I am. "Outsiders are not allowed in the Proving Grounds" Um. That's OK then, you can see that I'm a Voss. "Voss is a strange planet that nobody knows about." Um. I'm *FROM* Voss, of course I know about it, and I don't need your poxy permits and clearances to go there.
* Should not require funky vocoder effects.
* Should not require heavy re-work of armour and weapon fits.
Im just speculating here, but Id also guess that it has to be a species that the game actually has enough varied features that unique looks can be made in the appearance designer . So, my guess is that any new species needs to either be -

-compatible with the current existing character creator body types, genders, heads, hair styles, etc
-or be a species that has enough existing in game models and options of its own to be player customized,
-or new assets would have to be made for that species from scratch. Given how scant updates to options have been even for existing core species have been, it strikes me as the least likely option to have a new species fully modeled from the ground up.

Like, take Kel-Dor for example... every one you see in game is identical, no different skin tones, no variant masks, no body type 3s, no females, they are all identical. So I assume from that that the game only has one generic "kel dor" model rather than face/hair/marking options that could be uniquely produced at creation. Thus to be playable they would have to actually design a full suite of options for the designer. Even some companions look almost identical to other NPCs of their species (like Rusk, Qyzen or Yuun) and seem to be the only variants on the models. Even their companion customizations are just color reskins and not facial changes.

So, I could be way off on that speculation, but Id assume that compatibility with the appearance designer for both (male and female variants) will be the real deal breaker on what species can even be considered.
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thepilk's Avatar


thepilk
04.02.2018 , 10:53 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by tobarstep View Post
I'd love to see Devaronians playable. After reading about their history and culture in the bounty hunter sourcebook for the FFG Star Wars game, I think they'd make ideal additions to the playable race roster.
Devaronians would bring up an interesting issue: unlike other aliens in the game currently, their Females look like an entirely different species than the males (Infact I dont think there are any female Devs seen anywhere in game) It'd be like a 2-for-1.
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Azterion's Avatar


Azterion
11.09.2018 , 09:17 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by SteveTheCynic View Post
The "classic" criteria for a SPECIES to be included:
* Must speak Basic.
* Must be about human size and about human proportions.
* Must look reasonable kissing any romance / flirt target.

Additional items that are probably included, but I can't find any real evidence for:
* Should have human-like facial features. (An alternative formulation of the romance thing, I guess.)
* Should not reduce vast chunks of the game's dialogues to gibberish. This specifically excludes Voss and Gormaks. "You are not Voss". Um. Yes, I am. "Outsiders are not allowed in the Proving Grounds" Um. That's OK then, you can see that I'm a Voss. "Voss is a strange planet that nobody knows about." Um. I'm *FROM* Voss, of course I know about it, and I don't need your poxy permits and clearances to go there.
* Should not require funky vocoder effects.
* Should not require heavy re-work of armour and weapon fits.
Please don't make excuses for the devs.... Posts like these are really a pet peeve of mine because it just sounds like a lapdog preaching their master's word in subservient fashion. Most of those races work and are already in the game, and they can always change up their original rules if players want to play races with subtitles, like Wookies. Personally, I just want a Nautolan, which is easy to add because they match up the all the criteria, but I'm sure other players would greatly appreciate and understand what they're getting into by adding gibberish language over the current soundfiles. Bio only setup those rules because they believed that players wouldn't want to have to read all that dialog in subtitles and constantly hear gibberish languages, but many fans are telling them "Hey, we don't mind that for certain races". I certainly wouldn't care for that, but a TON of fans would. I doubt anyone plays the game for hot Wookie sex, so I don't think they'll care about the romance at least until a new expansion with new content comes out. And yes, there are neutral versions of conversations already in-game that are platonic. So let's let the fans decide what they want, stop making excuses for the devs, and play some Star Wars.
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SteveTheCynic's Avatar


SteveTheCynic
11.09.2018 , 10:26 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Azterion View Post
Please don't make excuses for the devs....
What part of 'the "classic" criteria' makes you think I'm making excuses?
Quote: Originally Posted by Azterion View Post
Most of those races work and are already in the game, and they can always change up their original rules if players want to play races with subtitles, like Wookies.
They *are* in the game, but frequently in very limited numbers of different appearances.
Quote: Originally Posted by Azterion View Post
Personally, I just want a Nautolan, which is easy to add because they match up the all the criteria,
The last part is questionable - I'm not sure how accurately the locations of Nautolan facial features matches the human ones, and there is minor lore gibberish about a Nautolan PC. (In the scene with the Exalted in KotFE-VII, when Thea calls, Koth muses about "I've seen one of those somewhere, in your part of the galaxy" and of course if the PC is a Nautolan, that line will sound really weird, but I guess it's no weirder than a Cathar character on Ord Mantell being given a lecture on what a Cathar is from the Stolen Medicines guy.) OK, so *minor* lore gibberish is apparently OK. (My comment about Voss and Gormaks remains valid, since both of those would introduce *huge* amounts of gibberish.)

Beware of the difference between something that's *easy* and something that doesn't take much work. Something that requires a pile of relatively repetitive manipulation of 3D assets (like creating all the customisation options that people would want for a Nautolan) isn't wildly difficult, but *is* time-consuming, not least because they have to interact correctly with all the facial-expression emotes that we have (and *those* have to be modelled for Nautolans as well...).

Remember that there are very few different NPC Nautolan models in-game, just as there were very few different NPC Cathar models, so all the options would have to be created, as they were for the Cathar and the Togruta. (I'd also warn about being careful what you wish for, lest you receive it. The playable Togruta aren't exactly what people were expecting.)
Quote: Originally Posted by Azterion View Post
So let's let the fans decide what they want, stop making excuses for the devs, and play some Star Wars.
I'm certainly not stopping any fans from deciding what they want. I'm hoping to temper their expectations a bit, to say that even if you want X or Y or Z, you may be disappointed if it does happen, and these are *some* of the reasons why it wouldn't happen.

I also don't think at this point in the game's life (especially with the budgetary pressures that they are obviously under) that adding a new playable species is a good way for them to spend their time.
http://www.swtor.com/r/Hg3sV2
To go to Belsavis, you must go to Belsavis.
> @"Biff.5312" said:
> Exercise your whimsy.

Azterion's Avatar


Azterion
11.09.2018 , 11:20 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by SteveTheCynic View Post
What part of 'the "classic" criteria' makes you think I'm making excuses?
What I mean by that is that they don't need any of us to outline their restrictions, and that restrictions can be changed as time goes on. Their budget is limited, but not so limited that they're not expected to do any work.

Quote: Originally Posted by SteveTheCynic View Post
They *are* in the game, but frequently in very limited numbers of different appearances.
It's like I was saying: Work is part of the job description.

Quote: Originally Posted by SteveTheCynic View Post
The last part is questionable - I'm not sure how accurately the locations of Nautolan facial features matches the human ones, and there is minor lore gibberish about a Nautolan PC. (In the scene with the Exalted in KotFE-VII, when Thea calls, Koth muses about "I've seen one of those somewhere, in your part of the galaxy" and of course if the PC is a Nautolan, that line will sound really weird, but I guess it's no weirder than a Cathar character on Ord Mantell being given a lecture on what a Cathar is from the Stolen Medicines guy.) OK, so *minor* lore gibberish is apparently OK. (My comment about Voss and Gormaks remains valid, since both of those would introduce *huge* amounts of gibberish.)
I feel they can get around that fairly easily, given that Nautolans are close enough facially, or at least their mouths are, and a line of dialog here and there can either be taken out or forgiven. New content can focus on romances and dialog to match the new species. Instead of referring to races in particular, they can use blanket terms like "What's a Jedi like you doing out here?"

Quote: Originally Posted by SteveTheCynic View Post
Beware of the difference between something that's *easy* and something that doesn't take much work. Something that requires a pile of relatively repetitive manipulation of 3D assets (like creating all the customisation options that people would want for a Nautolan) isn't wildly difficult, but *is* time-consuming, not least because they have to interact correctly with all the facial-expression emotes that we have (and *those* have to be modelled for Nautolans as well...).
I literally have friends who do this stuff for free on their spare time. It's far easier than some companies let on. Once again, that's their job.

Quote: Originally Posted by SteveTheCynic View Post
Remember that there are very few different NPC Nautolan models in-game, just as there were very few different NPC Cathar models, so all the options would have to be created, as they were for the Cathar and the Togruta. (I'd also warn about being careful what you wish for, lest you receive it. The playable Togruta aren't exactly what people were expecting.)
I thought Togruta were a fine a addition to the game, given the popularity of Ahsoka. And as for few models, well they are being payed for this, so that's their job.

Quote: Originally Posted by SteveTheCynic View Post
I'm certainly not stopping any fans from deciding what they want. I'm hoping to temper their expectations a bit, to say that even if you want X or Y or Z, you may be disappointed if it does happen, and these are *some* of the reasons why it wouldn't happen.
Why though? The purpose of forums is to express our hopes and ideas, not speak for the company or make excuses for them. There's literally no point in speaking for a company that we don't represent. If anything it's counterproductive.

Quote: Originally Posted by SteveTheCynic View Post
I also don't think at this point in the game's life (especially with the budgetary pressures that they are obviously under) that adding a new playable species is a good way for them to spend their time.
Let them worry about that, we're just here to discuss what we want, and why we think it works for the game -- then their job is to see if they can make it work. I could understand if you had legitimate lore concerns or reasons why these races would genuinely be a problem: Like if someone said "I want Kylo Ren in the game! Make a romance between Vice Admiral Purple-Hair and Rose Tico!" Obviously that wouldn't work because they'd be so out of place in this timeline/messed up, and 90% of players would instantly unsubsribe. New races on the other hand, are only a boon to the game, so lets try to encourage positive change instead of reciting 'classic criteria'. Change is necessary for growth.
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